An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME I READ MOST OF THE COMMENTS DRAWING COMPARISON BETWEEN KISHOR KUMAAR AND MOHD. RAFEE. NO DOUBT BOTH WERE GREAT PERFOMERS WHO BROUGHT COMFORT AND SOLACE TO BILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN AND OUT OF INDIA. ITS REALLY PAINFUL TO DRAW COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO CONTEMPORARIES. RAFEE SAAHAB WAS GENIUS AND KISHOR DAA WAS VERSATILE GENIUS BECAUSE OF ACTING,DIRECTION IN MUSIC AND FILMS ETC APART FROM SINGING. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE SINGING PORTION ONLY BETWEEN THE TWO. SO DEAR FRIENDS WHY SHOULD WE QUARREL WE MUST ENJOY THE WORK DONE BY THESE TWO LEGENDS. THATS ALL
sir, I do not want to say bad about anyone. because i am an admirer of such a gentleman who never spoke ill about anyone. His name is Mohd. Rafi. Therefore if anyone says or uses bad words for him i will not react as I did earlier. If I love rafi saheb it doesn’t mean I start criticizing other singers I hear kishore Da , Mukesh ji , Manna Dey and the forgotten Talat Mehmood also. If I hurt any body’s sentiments i am sorry for that.
Mohd Rafi was a true Indian and a thorough gentleman that is what god had given him talent and humbleness. It is said ” Jis Dali par Phal Lage hote hai woh dali Jhuki hoti hai”. How much it was true for rafi saheb.
Main Hindustan ke sabhi gaaykon ko salam karta hun. Sabne apna contribution diya hai. One should not run down any artist if a Rafi fan says Kishore was no match for rafi i will not agree with him because Kishore da was also a brilliant singer. In the last 50-60 years we had one rafi ,one kishore , one Mukesh and one manna Dey and rest were all their copycats.
pls point out if i said anything wrong. All the singers who came after these greats only copied them be it Shabbir kumar,Sonu Nigam Or Kumar Shanu. So if you had only 3-4 singers in 50-60 years than how can they be bad. We should be grateful to god for giving us such talented singers.My
personal choice may be Rafi or as somebody pointed out some experts also feel Rafi was ahead all these in terms of voice quality and versatility.
We have to accept others views also there are numerous Kishore fans and Mukesh fans also. I respect every one’s views . Kishore da also sang many beautiful songs and some of them are my favorite also. It doesn’t mean I don’t hear kishore , Mukesh or others We must discuss keeping all these things in mind we should agree to at least one point that all of them were greats and now a days there such a dearth of such singers we are truly missing these Legends. thank You all.
It is true..that Rafi sahab was trained..and he could sing any song….but he could sing a song to a certain level……..but if Kishore could( he could not sing all song…as he was not trained…) sing a song it will cross all levels…….thats why the songs Kishore sang is still popular…..Young generation, I mean school students dont even like to listen to Rafi songs( check out with your younger brother n sisters) but they will surely listen to some of Kishore songs…..So in my opinion both are equal… If Rafi voice had magic like Kishore that he would have been perfect..and there would have been no Kishore…(but that is not the case ) …Kishore came and displaced Rafi as no 1 singer….
If Kishore could classical songs..then there was no need of Rafi aur any one else..(but this is also not the case..) As Rafi was no 1 choice for many music directors, as they all were from classical music background..
So the point is no body is perfect in this world…..if one was perfect other would have not been so successful…..
Stupid fans …only stupid ones….will keep on fighting who is better…and the real fan will enjoy songs of both the legends….they were both human not god….so they were not perfect…no one is perfect.
They are both superb thats why after so many years of their death…they still have die heart fans……
YOU KISHORE FANS HAVE NO SENSE
RAFI IS A BILLION TIMES BETTER THAN KISHORE KUMAR
HISS VOICE WAS SO CAREFREE AND YOUTHFUL
RAFI RAFI RAFI RAFI!
what is this
some kishore fans are ridiculeing rafi!
this is just not fair
KISHORE WAS ASKED BY A REPORTER THE SAME QUESTION OF WHO IS BETTER HIM OR RAFI
HE SAID THAT RAFI IS A THOUSAND TIMES BETTER WHICH IS TRUE
TRUE MUSICIANS KNOW RAFI IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!
RAFI RAFI RAFI
HE IS THE BEST!
I HAVE HEARD MANY KISHORE SONGS AND I CAN SAY WITHOUT DOUBT RAFI IS BETTER!
Reply to 2173:
I have a doubt: Feeling: Does it mean in you or in the song sung by Great Rafi.
Many agree Rs 1 of yesteryears is equal to Rs100 of today, but not your biased comments.
Kishore da was a good singer but Mohd rafi is and will be the school of music .
Manna Dey said Mohd Rafi is from 1 to 10 after that we are,also Manna Dey said Mohd Rafi was God gift singer,Manna Dey I forgot my lines when I sang with him because of his sweet voice, Kumar Sanu said I am better than Kishora da but who copied Mohd Rafi they never said that,Shammi Ji was Great actor without Kishora Da,OPN was great music Director without Lata ji,Naushad was great without Kishora da,Music Director like RD who ignored Mohd Rafi he back to Mohd Rafi again,RD best film as music was with Shammi Ji and Mohd rafi……..Mohd Rafi is number one and before one it is zero and after one it is two..
Mohd Rafi god 70% plus votes if we togather votes for all singers still mohd rafi got more.
Good Joke that Muslim and Pakistan loves Mohd Rafi!!! 🙂 and biggest joke is that Kishora da better singer just show one interview by any one who worked with both said that Kishore da is better than Mohd Rafi but I can give you many,many they spoke about greatness of kishore da but no one spoke that he is better than mohd rafi…
I wish these ignorant kishore fans put their time in writing and posting more articles about the great singer rather than waste their time to criticise rafi sahab. The last article posted was over 13 months ago…
shame on you kishore fans.
i am bhakt of Kishore da.Rafi was a great singer but Kishore da was better playback singer and there was no match of his unique voice only one song was sung by both the singer (tum bin jaoon kahan) listen this sing and u will know the diffrence .in classical rafi was better but in playback singing kishore da was the best………….
Namaste to all listeners….People who says Kishore was better than Rafi are pathetic. Rafi’s songs are best in every category.
Patriotic songs by Rafi—kar chale hum fida, Apni Azadi ko hum, Aye watan humko teri kasam, Jahan daal daal pe…
Patriotic songs by Kishore—don’t remember any…
Bhajans by rafi—Sukh ke sab sathi, Insaf ka mandir and many more
Shadi songs—Baharon phool barsao( played in every marriage) , Babul ki dua keti ja
Qawali—parda hai parda, shirdiwale sai baba
Kishore was just another singer with a good voice. Lets suppose if Rafi’s voice was not suitable for many actors then it is not the mistake of the singer. I don’t believe how a person can be so fool by commenting on it. And who says that kishore’s songs are more popular in todays world they are wrong. I have to say open your eyes. Just check this global commercial which won more than 7 cannes awards.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57zo8O5pDXc
Rafi’s many songs were also used in hollwood’s blockbuster movies like Eternal sunshine of spotless mind, Ghost World etc. Kishore was not even a singer he used to try copy the song for a week before singing it.. A voice that can come from heaven can only be the voice of Rafi..If you want to compare the voice of Kishore then compare it with sonu nigam or udit narayan.
Are you under the influence of some intoxication or alcohol.. love Kishore.. yes good. but Rafi.. you do not understand what music is then…
The answer is very simple indeed.
Who do we listen to these days, even after 40 years, mostly Kishore Da.
Rafi’s voice was more melodious for the traditional romantic songs and bhajans, but anything outside of that, Kishore Kumar was better.
I will say one more thing, we have had many singers who sound very much like Rafi, (Sonu Nigam, Udit etc), but we have not had any that is as good as Kishore (sorry but Abhijeet, Babul and Kumar Sanu are not as good as Kishore). Kumar Sanu sang Andhi’d songs and he sounded terrible.
We underestimate the sophistication of Kishore’s voice just because he sounds so simple and normal. Try singing Kishore Das songs and record it, and you will see the difference. Then do the same with Rafi’s songs and you will see that singing Kishore Da’s songs is much more difficult.
Did I even mention the humming, hmmmmmm, hm hm o mere dil ke chain…
But I think RD Burman gets lots of credit for Kishore Kumar;s success, the music he gave and the way he mixed the songs, RD Burman was a genius.
I know that they are removing my post or keep them under moderation but my plea to all is to save Indian music. I admire all and respect all our singer
kishore da, Manna Dey , Mukesh Ji, Suresh ji , Lata , Asha all are great singers. I cannot utter a single word against any of them as all of them are our heritage. But Rafi saheb is the God of Hindi music. Thanks all
There are 2 words – Great and Popular. The sysnonym for the first is Rafisaab and for the second is Kishore. I never understand how can Rafi and Kishore be compared. The first reason can be the period those 2 worked. As Kishore came later and became popular due the different kind of songs he sung than Rafisaab.
These 2 can be compared on few points:
Versatility: When Rafisaab sung for some actor, it never appeared that Rafi is singing, but the actor is. And there was no limit on who the acotr is. Few classic examples are Shammi, Rajender Kumar, Johny Walker, Dilipsaab, Dev, Amitabh. But when KK sung even for Rajesh Khanna, the voice always sounded as Kishore’s.
Type of songs: Rafisaab had no limits of what kind of song he could sing.
Range of voice: Rafisaab had definitely better.
When Rafisaab sung, it always sounded like he’s singing from heart while in case of Kishore it was just throatal. Try singing any song by these and you’d feel the difference.
Clarity: Each word in a Rafi song is crystal-clear.
As long as only singing is concerned Mukesh or Manna Dey were better option to compare with Rafi. We listen Kishore Kumar’s song , while we feel Rafi’s song by heart.Rafi was a playback singer for Shammi Kapoor, Dilip Kumar to Rajesh Khanna, Bachhan, while Kishore Kumar was mainly a singer for Bachhan and Rajesh Khanna. Rafi is for all generation while Kishore Kumar is mainly for young generation. Rafi’s voice was more sweeter than Kishore. Kishore came in 50s, so more or less they were contemporary, but he had to wait for RD to come. No doubt that Kishore Kumar was a great singer and we enjoy lot of his songs. But we simply can not compare him with Rafi.
Rafi is Rafi !!!!!!!!
Perhaps these two citings from Rafi thread on orkut clearly speaks how different two personalities were. Rafisaab is (yes IS, cuz he will always be alive in our hearts!) a classical singer, while Kishore da is just another. Kishore’s pattern of singing is quite similar to Manna Dey, but again Manna Dey is a classical singer, Kishore isnt. However, there are lot of reasons for popularity for Kishore da, mainly due to RD and his lively nature to sing funny songs. If I see variety, I find more in kishore da’s and less on Rafisaab, whose voice was naturally romantic. And I love to say that, cause I love to sing his every song and feel the romanticism in it, the beauty of voice which pours the feelings inside (even if its not there!). I love the depth Rafisaab goes into for any song, be it sad or romantic or a classical or bhakti! That depth is unmatched with anybody (ofcourse, you may compare him with legends like Manna Dey, Hemant Da and Talat, but actually I would say they all were legends, and hence Uncomparable!)
Can we end this pointless Rafi / Kishore debate which is a total waste of time and space! Why are we as fans debating over these two fantastic singers, after all Rafi & Kishore were personal great friends, so what gives us the right to debate like this! At the end of the day a loyal fan to one artist will defend that artist no matter what due to their personal views & opinions !!!! We should honestly respect all singers for their talents in a humane conduct !!!
I have seen some really stupid senseless comments here and there so its best if we can end and close this debate platform and just concentrate on the talent of Kishore on this site and Rafi on the other site !!!! I do hope others would agree !!!!!!!!
Dear all , Manna Dey one of the greatest component of classical songs says that no one can modulate their voice like Rafi does. The way rafi sang those soft romantic numbers ” DIl ka bhawar kare pukar ” for Dev saheb but modulated voice differently for Shammi kapoor ” Diqana hua badal “. Sang diffrently for Mehmood saheb “Hum kale hai toh kya hua” & “Sar toh tera chakraye” for Johny walker . For Guru Dutt Saheb ” Yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaaye toh kta hai “. & “Dekhi zamane ki yaari bichde sabhi baari baari”.If someone says Rafi did not sang from heart must be a heartless person.
Opinion of the experts like Manna dey matters and not the opinion of those who are just part time listeners. But I will not say anything wrong about kishore Da Beacuse I too was a fan of Kishore Da in my younger days but as i matured and understood what Rafi is what his songs are I became not just a fan I would say I am a Rafi Bhakt now. Though kishore kumar i feel also a good singer and sang many glorious songs But now I am worried about our future after Rafi & kishore because there is no one to carry forward these great singers legacy i had some hope from Sonu but he has vanished from the scene and his place is taken over by two Pakistanis Atif Aslam & Rahat fateh ali. Is there no one from the land of Rafi & kishore.
We are blessed to have been in the era of Rafi and Kishore. Both are great in their own style. Compare but don’t conflict, dear music lovers. Yadhon ki Barat.
i think kishore daa was the best singer in all the areas of singing.he has a golden voice
Rafi fans need to remember one thing : the so called rafi of 50’s and 60’s collapsed from 1969 onwards and that was the end. Be satisfied with 50’s and 60s’of rafi. Rafi fans cannot enter into 70’s and say rafi was great, they will get exact responses by all people, as has happened. Many of these rafi fans have no knowledge of music : to support rafi they quote views of others such as spb, manna dey, k j yesudas etc. etc. Why do they not listen with their own ears and debate on technical competencies of rafi on their own, because they can’t because of their zero knowledge on music. A person having good knowledge on music (as can be seen from various discussions in kishore forum by trained musicians) has rated kishore kumar as a great singer which rafi fans should know.
RAFI WAS THE MOST WONDERFUL SINGER IN WHOLE WORLD I HOPE WHEN I COME TO INDIA I WILL MEET HIS SHRINE
Rafi is no match for Kishore who is simply the best. Kishore is God-Gifted singer while Rafi is a trained singer. God-Gifted kishore sings with his heart and soul while Rafi with brain that’s why the feeling which Kishore kumar songs reveal are not even touched by Rafi. There are no feelings in Rafi’s voice while there is gaity, fun and melancholy and love feeling from the bottom of heart in the voice of Kishore. That is why I say 1 song of Kishore is equal to 100 songs of Rafi.
I have to say some of the very negative comments made about Rafi saab here are just are coming from cloud cuckoo land !!!!! I mean what planet did some of these people come from ?????????? Ladu land !!!!!!! Come on guys is not time to wake up and accept the reality of professional views in the music world !!!!!!! With no disrespect to Kishore da as he was a fantastic singer in his own right (I myself have a huge collection of Kishore songs) but however he was still limited in technical ability when it came to singing in classical styles and even in qawwalis, he was limited in technical range, hence why did RD Burman went to Rafi more with qawwalis? Rafi saab won a filmfare award and National award under RD Burman in “Kya Hua Tera Vada”, Kishore da never achieved this !!!!!!!! I have listened to so many “live” made comments made by professional artists stating that Rafi saab stood out from the rest !!! Why don’t these cloud cuckoo people here just do some honest research for themselves on the matter? But no these people just cannot accept the bigger picture !!! Even Kishore da himself stated at the time of Rafi saab demise that he himself was no where near the greatness of Rafi saab !! At Rafi’s funeral (available to see on the web) just see the huge crowd attending the procession on a heavy rainy day, it was in fact one of the largest funeral processions ever seen !! What does that tell you about Rafi saab’s popularity to that point !!! When you hear professional artists stating Rafi saab’s supreme ability as a singer, I mean what does that tell you? That their all wrong ??? I’m sure everyone could acknowledge that Kishore da’s voice deteriorated from the early 80’s, he sounded more coarser compared to early 70’s. Rafi saab’s voice still had the clarity and range, for instance listen to the Rafi/RD Burman duet “Yamma Yamma” in 1980, how vibrant & youthful Rafi sounded in his voice! Somebody here stated that Rafi saab was unable to modulate his voice to different actors! What a cuckoo statement to make!! Go to You Tube and listen to Jeetendra talking about Rafi’s modulation performance in singing for Guru Dutt and in the same film singing for Johnny Walker. Anyway if some people still want to stick by these cuckoo land views and then please go back to cuckoo land and stay there !!! I will finally say again that Kishore da was a fantastic singer but Rafi saab did have that technical edge over everyone else which is widely acknowledged in the music world and even by Kishore da himself !!!!!!!!. Hence to those very biased Kishore fans out there, if your Guru is saying this about Rafi saab then who are you by stating negative comments about Rafi saab ??? Anyway at the end of the day I myself admire and respect all singers in their styles.
2165 says that only muslims and pakistani portray Rafi saheb above kishore is either a fool or a biggest traitor of this country. Calling Rafi saheb admirers as traitors can only be by a fool or traitor. I dont know what is his age or when was he born must know the following things.
1. Rafi is the only singer who went to Indo Chaina border at the time of war to boost the morale of Indian troops.
2. All the patriotic songs which we have seen while we grew up are of Rafi saheb. He was a Specialist I can say in patriotic songs.
3. When He sang a Bhajan for Bahiju Bawra “Man Tarpat Hari Darshan ko AAJ” He learnt sanskrit to clear his diction and when Pt. Nehru heard this Bhajan He enquired abot the singer when he came to know he is Muslim he was surprised how could a muslim sing like a pure Pandit he called him over to his house and gave him a silver coin as memoral.
4. I ask you Can KK sing “man Tarpat Hari Darshan ko aaj”. ” Madhuban mein Rafhika Naache Re”. KK himself knew it that is why when an classical song was given to him “Man Mora Bawra” He refused and instead told music director to take Rafi for this song. They were great friends and knew each others plus points.
5. Contribution to Indain Music By rafi saheb is immense. He inspired new generations so much that after his demise all the new singers who came were in awe of him they followed his footsteps and openly said so. Shabbir Kumar , Mohd aziz , Sonu Nigam all owe heir careers to Rafi saheb only.
6 In 2001 Rafi sahen was declared Singer of the Millenium by an overwhelming 70% votes by star Dust and Hero Honda Group. Which sponsored SA RE GA NA PA on Zee TV. Rafi saheb was Ultimate as far as singing is concerned.
when you say todays generation hear only Kishore songs I am sorry to say I dont blame today’s generation people as they are Fed By FM channels.
soon they will forget kishore also if this trend continues .These FM channels play only New songs day in and day out that is why today generation do not know about Rafi saheb and kishore Da . It is not their mistake. By callng all those paliatani who admire rafi saheb you have hurt our sentiments but i will not retaliate . Hindus have made temples for rafi saheb who is a symbol of india’s secularism. My request to all KK fans pls do not hurl abuses at us We are as patriotic as any other indian and we are proud of our country its culture its heritage and Rafi saheb.
My request to all those who love hindi film music to save Indian film music from onslaught of these pakistani Atif aslam and Rahet fateh ali khan they are changing the singing style of hindi songs and want us to adopt their own style.
Our singing style is different from them we want to save our heritage of rafi saheb,kishore Da , Manna Dey & Mukesh Ji all very respected singers.
Also restore the Golden era songs from 1955- 1970 . I have also written a letter to the editor times of India for saving Indian hindi songs.
I see that everyone talks about kishore ji and Mohd. Rafi sb. I read their singing qualities their admiration by people but i never heard Mahender kapoor and kumarsanu’s admiration. whenever I go in any private bus or go in any marrige function i mostly listen the songs of kumar sanu runs there. I see that boys immitiate sanu’s voice to sing like him. I never heard the admiration of k. sanu. why………..?
Hey frndz just stop al these comparisions nd plz dont ever compare any legendary singer…first u realise wt u r capable of than pointing out the ever grt legendary singers…
Some kishore fan unable to prove kishore better than rafi has started compairing ghantsala of south with rafi. But you compare like this. Uttam Kumar is top in Bengali flim.Can you compare Dilip Kummar with Uttam Kummar?
Hi! some kishore fan likes ghantasala.First time heard about him. Is he better than kishore also?Rafi sang 26 thousand songs. How many ghantasala and kishore sang together?
A small correction in my previous post to Mr. Anurag – the last line may be read as ” No body, of course, can prove the facts “easily” which are quoted some 50 years back.
and Mr. anurag, you have put if’s and but’s for other singers, then what about quote of Mr. Bhattacharya in his post 2167 on people’s view of rafi’s voice ????? I too have heard this view from people on rafi’s voice.
I can understand, only a biased rafi fan can talk like that, you can find fault in all singers, except rafi, even if others are perfect. Know that many singers have greater achievements than rafi even at his time and after him as well, spb, yesudas etc. in these days have greater achievements, including many awards for your information. And no body can ever deny that kishore kumar’s role and influence in hindi film playback singing cannot be forgotten, rafi lost his earlier importance due to kishore kumar, this is agreed even by rafi fans who have balanced views.
Next your views on ghantasala, An outright views of rafi fan, who alone can find faults (only due to their liking for rafi) even in perfect singers and moreso singer who has ruled a film industry (not a bhajan industry) for decades in his entire career without any competition – only due to his sheer talent and skills. It is said that rafi had himself acknowledged ghantasala as superior, (and it appears correct going by the discussions), if rafi’s statement is really correct (which can be believed), then rafi fans have nothing to say. No body, of course, can prove the facts which are quoted some 50 years back.
All gentlemen on this thread who are reading me, I want to bring something to light. You must have noticed that the kind of songs and music that are being made today. Its a shame. Quality music is dissapearing.
I think the only way we can help improve the quality of music today is to educate our children with good quality songs. We should expose them to the khazana of music that our predecessors legends have left us with . I have noticed that youth today does not even know about legends like Rafi saab, Kishoreda and Mannadey. I mean, literally young generation doesnt even know the “names” of our legends. Infact, they find it old-fashioned when an old melody is played in front of them. Why? Thats because they have never been taught about these legends by their parents. Its very shameful.
I think the only way is to expose our children with this quality music at an early age, so that they develop an interest and love for these legends. Its then that they would be able to understand that whats quality music.
I hope all of you gentlemen here are with me for this cause. If we want to preserve our music and prevent it from getting effected by westernization then, we all need to do our duty and propagate this into the life of today`s generation.
Thanks and Adaab!
A patriotic message
Many people also call rafi’s voice as feminine, what about this point ? Fans will say anything but facts cannot be changed. Kishore’s voice is more majestic male voice than rafi and another singer of south, the genius ghantashala is clearly superior to rafi in male majestic voice, strength and range, as well as technical skills. I do not think technically any playback singer can come even nearer to ghantashala’s unique style of singing. His songs are also very hard to sing.
Anurag – 2164
Kishore’s lower note songs are more comfortable than rafi, who was more comfortable in medium range to a bit extent in high pitches. Moreover, rafi’s voice lost its sheen in 70’s whereas, kishore even in late stage of his life it was good to hear. Kishore’s fan following in 70’s is much more to rafi, and rafi had importance in mid- 50’s to mid 60’s roughly around 13 years, kishore had importance from 1969 to 1987 almost 2 decades, rafi was not a lead singer than kishore in 70’s. finally, rafi was a trained singer than kishore, so without much training kishore has achieved what others could not achieve. Rafi, without training could never have achieved what kishore has achieved in hindi film playback singing. That is what makes kishore class apart vis-a-vis rafi. What ever you rafi fans views may be, these facts cannot be changed by any means.
Rafi is no match to ghantasala, who was far ahead in technical brilliance to rafi, ghazals has nothing to do with the industry in which ghantasala was placed and ghantasala was a genius in padyams and sanskrit renderings (besides film songs of various genres which you agree), where rafi does not even come nearer to him. Other departments you yourself agree for ghantasala’s brilliance which makes him overall superior to rafi clearly. Even voice range and strength voice ghantasala was clearly superior to rafi. Ghantasala alone is the playback singer in the country who ruled as a versatile music director and playback singer (with brilliant voice) for nearly 3 decades without competition until his death – in a industry due to his genius – rafi would never have achieved what ghantasala has achieved in telugu industry, where his contribution remains unparalleled even to this day. And calling him a bhajan type is pure ignorance (though you agree on his brilliance), he has ruled a film industry for 3 decades that is enough to put your views in a dustbin. Finally rafi’s songs can be easily sung as compared to ghantasala’s songs which require lot of practise to sing (as compared to rafi’s songs)
Can you sing ghantasala ragas in padyams and film songs similarly or even nearer, just try ? I doubt whether you can come even nearer. Not only you, rafi literally struggles in kuhu kuhu song as compared to ghantasala’s original version and ghantasala sings the ragas in it, as if they are nothing for him (it is not only technical brilliance, but his way of singing which was a gift for him)
Next, I do not think you can copy kishore as well similarly, there will be lot of difference when you hear kishore’s original renderings. you can check it.
Kishore kumar was much much ahead of mohammad rafi. The life in kishore kumar’s voice is amazing. mohammad rafi always looks old and tired. Today kishore kumar’s songs are thousands of times more popular than mohamaad rafi songs. pakistanis and other muslims just always try to portray mohammah rafi above kishore kumar.
To everyone who thinks mohammad rafi was better or even nearer to kishore kumar — just check how many kishore kumar’s songs are heard today and how many mohammad rafi’s, though both were same era singers. T his is the magic of Kishore kumar.
Kishore kumar had gift of god. No male singer comes near to him.
Ref my post2162. I read earlier posts also, where mention of K L Saigal is done and compared with Rafi.
I would express my feelings here: Saigal was a great singer and sang only few hundred songs to prove his brilliance on music.
K L Saigal, Mohd Rafi, Lata, Jagjit Singh expressed themselves so accurately and with deep emotional voice that they can not be compared with each other. they are greats!!! True, rafi was more versatile among all above; but each one equal in own respect. jagjit had limited but very accurate style, directly touching the heart.
Ghatasala is very good but “Bhajan type” and not comfortable with Ghazals, though brilliant in all other departments. manna De is excellent, accurate but lacks raw material – “Voice quality”
Mukesh had voice quality, but out of range, inaccurate.
mahendra kapur, nasal voice , a rough clone of Rafi, could not penetrate heart of people.
Asha, good in singing but not divine like lata, rafi, Saigal or Jagjeet.
There is one more divine voice possessing all above qualities- the graet mehdi Hassan. Can sing anything.
Why Rafi is acceptable more to general people because he possesses all qualities of singers mentioned above in the right ratio.
kishore- with good voice quality but could not sing deeper; could have done much better.
I can sing all Kishore songs, but copying Rafi’s murky calls for a training of 20 yrs, which he expresses that no one feels but knows when try to sing.
Same case with lata, Mehdi Hassan, jagjit, Saigal. They can not be copied. they have shown their talent in their singing. The harkatein they have taken are very very difficult. Of course Ghantasala can copy but soul and emotion are missing.
Rafi is the only male singer who can sing love song.Kishore a joker type hero can sing joker song with his loud harsh voice and sad song in kishore voice is a waste. Rafi is not only best there is no male or female singer near to him
Rafi and Kishore can not be compared. Kishore does not qualify at all.
Such a plain singer whom any average singer can imitate, can not be compared with Rafi with deep velvet voice, ready to deliver any difficult compsition efforlessly.
Kishore failed to sing many songs and referred to music director that Rafi only can sing thois song. ( Nafrat ki duniya ko….) kishore left studio half way.
kishore himself had great respect for Rafi. Once a Kishore fan spoke ill about rafi in front of Kishore; Kishore slapped him and said” rafi sahab can sing one song in 100 ways which i can sing in one way”
Finally, Manna De approved that he could never match Rafi, for unknown reasons. he asked Rafi how could he do that. Rafi humbly replied ” Manna da, I listen to your songs” Manna De declared Rafi ” Singer above all singers” Of course in male category.
In females, only Lata has mettle to match rafi, though pittied many times against him.
First become a Kan-sen if not Tansen, than compare singers. Kishore was very good but Light years away fom rafi.
Kishoreda was a maverick. His voice had a eternal resonance and “Khanak” that was unique! Voice was uniquely deep and the throw, punch and power in his voice make him the most difficult singer to sing. Rafi was undoubtedly a fabulous singer but Kishore Kumar was pure genius. Here is an anecdote (story) I would love to share with you all.
I had always been a Mohd. Rafi fan, since I was a kid. Like my parents and friends, I, obediently followed the tradition to listen and admire Rafi and only Rafi. His “Makhmali awaaz” was always a treat to my ears. I would sing his songs at the school and with friends. People liked me because I was eventually, if not easily, able to sings those classical numbers. I was admired.
But, then I had a chance to listen to Kishore da`s songs. I was moved! His voice was uniquely LARGE. The base in his voice was incredibly deep, unlike any other singer. His voice was inimitable. Such strong voice, reflected pronounced masculinity. His songs like ‘Hal Kya Hai Dilon Ka’, ‘Phoolon ke rang se’, ‘Aapke Anurodh Pe’ ‘Kuch to log kaheinge’ and many others, are great examples of his talent. Kishoreda`s ability to sing such diverse moods and styles can clearly be witnessed in above songs!! Interestingly, just notice the change in timber and texture he brings singing these diverse songs- something which Rafi never did; he just sang with the same timber/texture. Kishore could sing all the way from his upper part of the chest like in “Aapke Anurodh Pe” (where his voice comes out with so much depth and yet, he doesnt run out of air!!), then his throat like in Hal Kya Hai Dilon (his vocal chord sounds like this huge rod with incredibly high radius!) and all the way up to his mouth in Pyaar Manga Hai Tumhi Se(where he just whispers and the romance spreads in the air!!). I challenge anyone to do justice to these songs! Kumar Sanu and Abhijeet just copy one little “pehlu” or “style” of Kishore`s versatilty (just make Kishoreda`s voice thinner by 50% and add some nasality in it and you get Kumar Sanu, Yodell-ish singing style that too with erratic consistency and you get Abhijeet). One little Rang of multi-coloured Kishoreda has made their lives!! Just think about it. You would see many singers singing Rafi`s songs, giving him a good enough tribute. There are Sonu Nigam, Shabbir, Mohammad Aziz and many others who are fairly good at it (who have even sung O duniya ke rakh wale, the hardest song Rafi ever recorded and infact, Sonu has done considerable justice) But Kishore Kumar was UNIQUE. No one ever had such a tremendous throw and solidarity. AND now we can just imagine what Kishoreda could have done if he was classically trained from his childhood. His voice would have broken the boundaries and CONQUERED the world!!
The khanak in kishoreda`s voice was a god-gift and the almighty has not given even one-tenth of that charismatic resonance that kishoreda was rewarded with, to anyone else.
Kishoreda, sadly, recoginzed his talent quite late, way after he was already dragged into acting by his elder brother, Ashok Kumar– and surprisingly enough, his acting skills are still admired. What a multi-talented individual he was indeed. But its sad that we lost him early.
Conclusively, I hope and pray that the Rafi`s fans break their old bias for an hour and just listen to the songs I have recommended above! And as for Rafi, he has been my guru and idol and I always will be his fan.
Stop this comparison…
For me, both are my favorite singers, people have different choices. And, @ Kishore fan, Rafi sahab never learnt music from Manna Dey, Manna Dey himself said that Rafi was better than him. Obviously. Kishore was good in his own comfort zones. Both the singers had their own ranges and comfort areas. Kishore was not a trained singer, but Rafi sahab was. But, a point to notice is that both Kishore and Rafi had the zest for music, and it should be respected, and not debated upon. Rafi sahab and Kishore da respected each other, and respected each other’s works. Both were great singers in their own right. Kishoreda had an instant connect with the masses because the masses could sing his songs themselves. Not all people are classically trained in music, so Rafi sahab didn’t have an instant connect with audience in 1950’s. But, in the swinging 1960’s, Rafi sahab connected very smoothly with hit dance numbers for Shammi Kapoor in his films. Also, Kishore’s popularity was much higher in 1970’s also because he had acted in films earlier, which Rafi sahab never attempted. Both shared cordial relations off-glam world. Rafi sahab could sing devotional songs in the feeling of the songs and rendered any genre of songs, may it be rock n roll, pop, classical, semi-classical, or even qawwali, thumri and bhav geet.
So, I think that there’s absolutely no reason of debating about who’s better and who’s not. Both are very much successful in their own right. Great singers will always remain great!! Stop this comparison, please, it’s a request.
those whu find fault in rafi sahab’s ainging..well i can just pity them..and talkin about techinal points of singin..come on…challengin disciple of bade ghulam khan sahab is sheer foolishness in itself..and those whu say that rfi sounded the same in each and evry song..well i can do nthin more but prescreibe them an ear specialist.
Sukumar ji -2146
Your point is well taken. We just wanted to put a full stop to the false propoganda going on in that forum.
Desgupta and prasad ji – 2149, 50 posts, Excellent views presented.
2152 – anand ji a good post
Welcome dear kishore lovers, raj, bhattacharya ji, sandeep, praveen, anand ji and all others.
I just want to tell rafians about some points. Rafi never could make his voice suit to all the actors as in post 2152 anand ji says. for e.g. take the actor Raj Kumar who had a magnetic voice and voice of rafi was un-suitable to raj kumar. for instance, the song Yeh Duniya Yeh Mehafil can be heard. Even for dharmendra and other actors, if we hear only rafi singing only on radio, without knowing the actor, one cannot judge to which actor the song has been sung. Kishore can be easily identified with his song and for which hero he has sung, just listening to him on the radio. Next, point is Rafi clearly had limitations in classical and semi-classical arenas/areas. He was strictly speakin, not even close to Manna Dey in both the areas. It has been told that it was Manna Dey who had even taught Rafi and many other singers of his times , how to sing a romantic duet. Rafi was of a type that he never always did pick up certain styles of singing. Rafi was not able to adapt himself to newer styles of singing very easily and in such areas naturally talented singers of hindi field, viz., Kishore kumar and Manna Dey outshined him very clearly. R.D.Burman himself had stated that it was not at all easy to convince Rafi to change something which was already taught to him. for example Rafi clearly failed to adapt the nuances of Aa jaa Aa jaa song. see in the same song, Asha bhonsle had created a clear edge over rafi. Kishore would have well rendered the song without any difficulty and more comfortably. Similar thing can be said for songs salaamat rahe dostana na hamara, yaadon ki barat etc. where kishore kumar had a clear clear edge. Next, the song dar de dil from karz by rafi is just a normal song, almost in the nearness of time, kishore sang om shanti om, which was quite ahead of rafi.
There is no comparison between the two. Rafi Saheb is at par in comparison to kishore kumar por any one in the queue. He was the jewel.
first download rafi songs and lisen ….that songs.
1-man ray tu kahe na deer daray (chitrlekha)
2-ek haseen sham ko dil mera kho gaya (dulhan ek raat ki)
3-dil ki tumna the masti mein hum be(geharan hazaar ladhkeeyan)
4-O duniya k rukhwalay sun dard baray(baju bawra)
5-suhani raat dhaal chuke hai na jaane kab (dulari)
Kishore fan bhai
I have seen your and other friends comments on rafi site, let them continue with their ignorance, they will get realisation when time comes for realisation for them.
What is special in those songs of rafi ? I can give you a list of many more better songs than them for rafi. The irony is rafi fans even cannot identify for which rafi is special and for which he was not special. The biggest false propoganda circulated by rafians is that rafi is best in all genres, which is the greatest ever lie in the universe. Excepting for few songs that too slow type and in the medium speed level, rafi does not create much ice for a music lover, of course excepting hardcore rafi fans who think otherwise. And most of rafi songs are composed in that slow and medium type, where he was comfortable and no special compositions or difficult compositions with remarkable varieties can be noted for rafi. the songs which rafi had rendered can be comfortably rendered by manna dey, kishore, talat and others, There is nothing great in rafi songs, since rafi has sung them, people are habituated to them and if the same songs would have been sung by other singers, people too would have been habituated to them.
Great going kishore fans. Kishore is a nice singer.
I do not think rafi’s voice can be identified exactly to that of actors. Rafi’s voice is the same for all actors he has sung. It is the same voice, no change at all. Only rafi fans think his voice suited like actors voice, which is not so. For rajesh khanna, kishore suited exactly, rafi was not so. Similar for other actors. Kishore was kishore. Moreover rafi shouts at high pitch, it should go like khuli awaaz without any strain, shouting does not create a attractive impact.
A big defect in rafi’s voice is in high pitch the voice should change: even it is identical i.e same voice there in high pitch. To be more clear, take instruments as higher notes are played they become thinner and have more clarity. But rafi’s voice does not change similarly. Voice means it should exactly resemble instruments i.e. clear and great voice. In lower notes voice should get deep and thicker, in middle notes not too thick neither too thin but pleasant, and in high pitches comfortably strong yet thinning with attraction i.e great voice. Rafi does not match these qualities.
All legends are great. Stop this comparison.