An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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kishorefan-2032
Dear Mr.Kishorefan,
Let me put my points straight here lest they are misunderstood:
My intention was not to argue someone out. I too have great respect for all those great singers mentioned, which any true music lover will have. Because music knows no boundaries of language, region, religion etc. i too have gone through enough comments posted in this forum on Rafi and other singers and i do not need any advice from you about my coverage in this regard. If I sounded ‘partial’ as you said, well it may be your judgement problem. If I would rate a certain singer superior based on some definite inputs that I got, I need not be called partial!!
Well, I said about Rafi’s uniqueness in that he shows a far greater range and dexterity in singing by which he can do justice to all kinds of songs. I have already expressed elsewhere in this forum that Rafi may not have the classical excellence of certain other singers like Ghantasala, Yesudas, Manadey. ( It is also told that Rafi did not have the same level of formal training in classical music like these singers !) Yet, he has rendered several classical songs in Hindi remarkably well. this is a fact which any music lover cannot ignore (Eg. Hari Om Hari Om, Radhike tune bansari bajayi, Madhuban mera .. etc). Let us take the case of romantic songs of Rafi ( eg. yeh phoolon ki rani, door rahkar na karo bath. teri anko ke sivaa raka kya hei, so on and so on) and how they compare with others? Then his songs of pathos (eg. the songs in Haqeekat, Hathi mere saathi, Gam udhane ke liye jite hein etc) . Then his songs with philosophical tinge (eg, Man re tu kahe ne dhir dhare, Meri aawaz suno etc.). i believe that singers can be judged by giving them marks while they sing all kinds of songs- classical, romantic, pathos, philosophical etc. in other words this becomes a study of a range of a singer, which we cannot ignore. To me this is uniqueness, when I used that word. I have observed , with due respect to other singers, that Rafi had a far better range than other singers. This does not mean slighting the other singers in any wayand being partial as you said!!
Lastly, I shall be interested to know whether you have watched a video uploaded in you tube, where in SPB in an interview goes about analysing Rafi’s singing ability and ends up by saying that ” Rafi is the ultimate in singing’ . There is yet another interview I have watched where Mannadey speaks about Rafi, where he says Rafi is unparalleled. i would appreciate it if you could watch these two videos in particular. I cited these two singers in particular because one is a great all rounder and the other is a well acknowledged in classical music and Rafi’s contemporary.
Hello All. Very interesting debate here. Read a lot of your comments. Some were absurd and some were good. I think we need to end this non ending debate and have some sanity. Firstly both KK and Rafi were good singers with exceptional singing qualities and should be respected for this. We cannot just condemn a particular singer and run him down. Both did well in their respective era’s and have moved on with no successors. The new breed is just trying hard to follow their footsteps
I have been listening to all the melodies of Indian and English music from the 50’s to date music and have heard all the renowned singers. I have spent a lot of time listening to KK and Rafi and after careful analysis and understanding music, I have come to this conclusion that out of these 2 singers, I think Kishore Kumar is the best Indian Singer to date.
I would like to state some reasons as to why I have come to this conclusion and would like to have some feedback on this
1. KK came on the scene during the 50’s when we had qualified singers and MDs. KK with his type of singing was a total misfit. He was ridiculed and teased, but this legend carried on with his unusual type of singing and acting stood out from the mob
2. KK is a natural singer and was not bound to any rules or regulations.
3. He is highly versatile and has a tremendous range in his singing. Most of his songs have a different octave
4. His voice modulation suited all the hero’s he sang for
5. KK sang to ENTERTAIN not to show he is highly trained or is a better singer. He is the Sachin T of singing. The other singer is like Dravid who can be a bit boring at most times. The world will stop to see Sachin and KK sing. But for Dravid, its a different story. Can we replace Sachin????????
6. I think 85% of KK songs have repeat and entertainment value compared to around 45% of Rafi songs. Most of Rafi songs were too technical and boring to hear after some time. KK’s voice is so different, that its motivating and energy boosting. Most of Rafi songs cure Insomnia (disorder where one cannot sleep)
7. KK’s voice quality and singing will fit any era of music compared to the other singer whose voice will not fit even today’s era
8. KK’s singing is so unique that even now we do not have another KK clone (we will never have a clone anyway) compared to the other singer who has such a common singing style that we have TONs of Rafi clones in every town and village around the world. Please show me a proper KK clone.
9. Although KK was not a trained singer, his songs have perfection, clarity, modulation, range, pitching, very clear vocabulary, soul rendering, passion, entertaining, etc……….
10. Although Salil C was known to be a challenging MD, KK sang some of his best songs for this composer. Please listen to the song “Guzar Jaye Din” of Annadata. This song sounds simple but is very complicated. Salil C commented that only KK could have sung this song
11. I hope the Die Hard Rafi fans are not upset by my comments. I do respect this singer who has toiled hard to reach to the top and left a mark. But in terms of public entertainment, fan following, mass hysteria there is no Indian Singer apart from Kishore. This is what makes a True Legend
12. Finally I hope I have given some valid reasons and clarified why I rate KK so high and look forward to your feedback. All the talk of Rafi’s technical singing, highly trained does not make him a legend. Kishore Kumar is truly a Legend.
Everyone say ” Hail Kishore Kumar”
Take care and give us constructive feedback
rafi sahab was the best and kishore kumar cannot sing many sngs of m.rafi where as there r many songs whch kishore kumar left nd said that he cannot sing this sch hard song belongs to m.rafi…….@who says that m.rafi has very sft voice he was having more hard voice than kishore …if u dnt believe tat hear darde dil of movie karzz……. songs lyk mai kahi kavi na banjaao ,tum jo mil gaye ho,abhi na jaao chod kar,ravayya vasta vayya,aaj mausam bada beimaan hai,madhuban me radhika naachere,……@m.rafi also sung many songs for kishore kumar…………there r many other songs which were beyond the limits of kishore kumar@comparing kishore kumar wit m.rafi is jst awaste of tym.,,,,,,,,,,m.rafi was 100000000000000….tyms bettre than kishore kumar
dear sri gokuldas kumar,
your post 2031. certainly more than singers and fans like you and me, it is the musicians who know better about music and musical talents. already several posts have appeared in this site from some reputed musicians of both karnatic and hindustani having good knowledge and taste for film music who have felt and expressed as to who is the best and greatest of all indian film male singers so far. for instance, i advise you to go through the post 1897 of mr khan dated 31st may 2010 who is an accomplished hindustani musician and also who happens to be an ardent fan of rafi. regards.
Dear Freinds,
Playback Singing is not only dependant on classical base; though it is one of the important factor. If classical base was a major factor, then all greats like Bhimsen Joshi, Rashid Khan and Bade Ghulam Ali Khan would have choosen playback singing.
Expression of mood, flavour of the song, voice quality, accuracy, are also very important; which no one understood better than Rafi.
Ghatasala, a great singer, who edges over Rafi in one department but lags in many. Kishore has a loud good voice; the only plus point.otherwise, far away from Rafi.The overall way of presentation maintaining the accuracy is very important, which rafi performed very well. While singing semi-classical songs , he seems to be very filmy without sacrificing quality, and does not overload you with un-desirable classical demonstration in playback singing.
noted play back singer yesudasji got 7 national awards (5 for malayalam
songs one for hindi and one for telugu).he is the only singer in india who
got the maximum number of national awards.according to him he could
get all these by following and singing rafi saab and his songs.yesudasji
treat rafi saab as his “manasik guru”.we have fans of singer whom they treat as number one who could not get even a single national award.
according to mannadha in india rafi saab is the number one and in
duet songs of rafi saab and lataji even lataji could not match the voice of
rafi saab in some songs.according to mahendra kapoorji,rafi saab is his
“ustadh” and singers from various languages,sonu nigamji,udhit narayanji
are treating rafi saab as their “idol”.we the common man nothing infront
of these veterans are quarelling for nothing.it is so shame and pitty.
It surprising and wishful thinking on part of few people in equating Kishore to Ghantasala,I am great fan of Kishore but to compare him with legend Ghantasala is quite ridiculous.Kishore is no match to Ghantasala in any aspect of singing(or music composition)
Regarding Shiv Shankari song ,the great singer had practiced it for few days before it got oked in one take.It is easily one of the toughest song in IFM history.
This is to just drive the point Rafi took more takes(if he had taken),but his perfection is unmatched and no singer till date is close to him in that regard(with exception of Ghantasala who is a shade this side or that side of Rafi).
My request is simple pls don’t compare Rafi,Ghantasala to Kishore as they were miles ahead of him.
To all RAFI fans. Plz don’t compare great KISHORE KUMAR with RAFI. Kishore was a way ahead of RAFI. His voice has more emotions and feelings other than any singer. And plz don’t critisize KISHORE in praise to RAFI.
Despite lack of classical training, Kishoreda has ability to sing some difficult numbers as he was god gifted. In one interview, Asha Bhosle, said that God had sent Kishoreda with all the training, as he could take the correct sur without any knowledge of hindustani classical. I ve heard he could have sung more difficult songs too, but he deliberatly dint due to his modesty and admittance towards lack of classical knowledge. Anyways, kishore was no 1 in expressions and feelings, while rafi was no 1 in range and classical. I suppose most people would agree with this. After watching reality shows like k for kishore, I see that despite taking the correct sur, no singer is able to match the expressions and voice quality of Kishoreda ever. Whereas there are numerous reality show singers who were able to sing rafi songs with ease (such as Rahul vaidya, aneek). Its tougher to match Kishoreda,he was more valuable.
I consider Rafi as far superior in technical terms: Classical, high vocal range, ability to sing various genres of songs: classical/bhajan/qawwali. At the same time, Kishore was far superior in ability to emote and express the mood of the song with great feelings. For me, feelings, expressions are more important for a playback singer (than classical), which Kishoreda being a multifaceted personality as an actor understood much better and hence excelled. Also, i consider kishore’s voice quality to be superior, as he even sung the softest of songs (like humein tumse pyar kitna, yeh jeevan hai) in a non-feminine style, whereas rafi’s soft songs were tilting towards feminine touch. Kishore had ability to modulate his voice to a far superior degree, can anyone say that “Chhu kar mere manko” and “Haal kya hai dilon ka na poocho sanam” were sung by same singer. Kishore’s voice sounded totally different in sad, happy, soft and loud numbers, testimony to his greatness. These qualitative parameters are far more important than technical advantages of rafi (in terms of sur and high vocal range). I do agree rafi’s superiority in bhajans/classical based songs, but we r talking about a playback singer, where Kishoreda was simply the best.
Quite by chance, I have come across this site and find that a silly and totally unproductive debate is going on involving the two most popular legendary singers Md. Rafi and Kishore Kumar. In fact, there is no comparison between them. Both Rafi Saab and Kishore Da had their own style of singing and varied core competency levels, which ultimately contributed to the process of the making of the two greatest singers. They are just like two sides of the same coin, which are visibly different, but the coin is incomplete without the existence of both the sides. Just consider the “coin” as the “Golden Era of Hindi Filmy Songs” and you will realize what I mean to say. If one likes to listen to a particular singer only, he or she is free to do so, but he or she should not act in a manner tentamounting to showing of any disrespect to the other singer. Wish you a happy listening to Md. Rafi and/or Kishore Kumar songs.
Hello Ashok Kumar,
Breathless is a technique that Shankar Mahadevan literally owns. Noone can sing a song in one breath but he controls his breath and the timing so well that it seems he belts out the song in one breath. But that technique alone does not make him the best singer. Regarding the other song well who knows what rehman did to make it sound like that, or maybe the singer is shankar mahadevans deciple 🙂
If you listen to interviews given by singers, for example SPB himself, he clearly says that there is no dearth of talent. I have seen 10-15 year olds sing so called tough songs, why the recent india idol Sriram had sand rasika raaja (a tough song of ghantasala) technically as well among a lot of other songs.
A lot of people here say that other singer praise their idol so he has to be better. That is not correct, I am yet to see a singer who talks ill about other singers (atleast not the respected ones).
SPB idolizes Rafi, that by itself does not make rafi superior. He clearly says on the same breath, that its not rafi’s technical expertise that bowled him over its the variations he introduces in his songs and the emotions they evoke that make him inimitable. Jesudas says about rafi, god has gifted rafi with a golden voice (rather god has been partial to rafi).
Coming to Ghantasala, he does need multiple takes for some songs. For example the song prati ratri vasanta ratri, ghantasala himself told the MD after a few takes that we can re record his starting part as SPB was singing his part right and ghantasala was missing his note. Now you may say it was late in his career or he was not well but they are just excuses.
Liking a singer is a personal choice, one of the singers maybe your idol but I am sure even an ardent rafi fan will listen to kishore songs and love them.
To me rafi is the best singer for soft romantic songs, especially with the harkats and twists he adds to the songs, just wonderful. For sad songs though, I prefer kishore the way his voice sounds in a sad song really moves my heart. I mean just type dil aaj shayar hai on youtube you will see 100’s of people trying to sing it some technically correct but can anyone evoke kishore’s emotions? not even close…
People talk about technically tough songs when you compare singers, how often do you listen to those songs? Do you listen to pukaarta chala hu mai more often or duniya ke rakhwaale? Do you listen to siva sankari/syamala dandakam or oohalu gusagusalaade (for ghantasala song fans). There are many singers with wider octave ranges than ghantsala, like jesudas or mbk (balamurali), but I would rather listen to ghantsala as his voice is sweeter, same with rafi and kishore.
Just my 2C
Srini
dear gokuldas kumar,
your post 2031 – more than singers and certainly more than fans like you and me, it is the musicians who know better about music. already several posts appeared in this site from various musicians(both hindustani and carnatic) with good taste and knowledge of film music who have analysed who is the best film male singer of all times in our country so far. for instance, i advise you to read the post 1897 of mr khan who is an accomplished hindustani musician and also who happens to be an ardent fan of rafi. regards.
2019 – Rafifan1
I think you should have addressed the post to Bhattacharya ji, as your post appears to be a reply to his post. Anyhow, leave ghantasala ji, there were many posts on this unique legend of the south and I agree with you – he was in a different league. No doubt about it. Next, we music lovers have discussed about various artists including SPB etc. etc. here as we are purely interested in music and not with a intention of comparison on who is great and who is not great. So our discussion on ghantasala, spb and others was purely as music lovers and with a keen interest to appreciate southern music as well. Two different corners are hindi music and southern music, hence it would be nice if comparisons (unhealthy) are not resorted to. Next, rafi vs kishore – how many posts and how much discussions – the same story again and again. OK, let us assume kishore was classically trained – what my friend bhattacharya meant was kishore’s approach was a different one towards a composition and if we was classically trained, he too would have fared in hindi with a success level which ghantasala had in the south in classical type filmy songs. This should not be interpreted in a way that kishore and ghantasala are being compared – no, because strictly speaking, and in my view, the orbits of rafi and kishore of hindi and ghantasala of south do not intersect. Ghantasala was the unparalleled singer par excellence in the south and rafi and kishore were numero one in hindi, so the reference by bhattacharya ji for kishore in comparison to ghantasala is only a passing reference of an example and not comparison between both. I hope you have got it. Next, regarding the quote of kishore making rafi vanish, do not take it seriously, rather I would interpret that kishore would have got more preference than rafi in such situation (i.e if he was classically more trained) and rafi too would have been important along with kishore, with kishore having more importance. This is what I opine after reading your post along with Bhattacharya ji’s post.
Musharaff ji – 2028 post
Thanks for your post. I agree with the same.
Gokuldas ji – 2031
Many flaws in your post on your comments for rafi especially – not agreeable completely. However, I do not want to much argue, as already the issue has been settled in recent posts and it would be better if you please read the posts of some balanced music lovers who have posted their views.
contd to previous post … gokuldas ji, a small point has missed
In the article referred above by Mr. Prasad, the last para on AIR songs now stands modified – AIR now plays exclusively his songs on the days referred there.
Post 2031 – gokul das
“See, how highly they all have rated Rafi ji! ”
But, there are no instances of ghantasala rating rafi higher, in fact there are instances where rafi and even lata mangeshkar had rated ghantasala higher. You also please refer comments of SPB and others on ghantasala, you will know the facts.
http://www.ghantasala.info/theman/scit-post.html
The above is a excerpt from ghantasala website for your information gokuldas ji – mohd. rafi and others are referred in the middle of the article (please read entire article, you will know it).
This is an article from the reputed publication – the Hindu – rating him as unparalleled and class apart from all others.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/02/11/stories/2003021100450100.htm
Leave popularity factor, from talent and skills wise and uniqueness from artistic point of view, the above articles have a great importance and contain perfect truth in them.
Ankit B – 2029
Your last line is duly acknowledged. Remaining points are disputable. Please read other numerous posts here and that should be sufficient answer for you. .
Ashok Kumar M (AKM) -2021
The song of A R Rehman was interesting to hear. I think it is a experimentative style of western and indian style with thrust on classical effects. The breathless song also was interesting to hear. I doubt whether technological trick has done the song breathless ?. Anyhow, those songs were nice to hear and thanks for the links. But, I am sure, if these songs were rendered by the legends you mentioned in your post, I think surely, they would have been more different ? This is my view please.
Musharraf ji – your views on the same please.
Gokuldas kumar M
I do not want to argue much as much arguments have taken place and clear conclusions have been drawn. Your love for rafi is noted. Well, if other artists does not have the voice of rafi, then rafi too did not have the voice of other artists. If other artists did not have the uniqueness of rafi, then rafi too did not have the uniqueness of other artists. What do you say about that ? We have heard plenty of rafi’s songs and I personally feel you need not advise us about hearing of rafi’s songs in depth. I request you to please go into numerous previous posts in this forum and other forum also, wherein great analysis and arguments have already taken place between various knowledgeable fans, – that should be a sufficient answer to your so called partial post.
dear sri gokuldas kumar,
your post 2031 –
more than singers and certainly more than fans like you and me, it is the musicians who know better about music. already several musicians have posted their comments in this site and analysed who is the best of all film singers. for instance, i advise you to go through the post 1897 dated 31st may 2010 of mr khan who is a well trained classical musician and an ardent fan of rafi. regards.
To know rafi’s superiority over other singers, let us only listen to the documented comments of other great artists namely, Lathaji, Mannadey ji, Kishoreji ,Jesudas ji, and SPB ji. These comments are available for us to examine. See, how highly they all have rated Rafi ji! Without exception, all these great singers have rated Rafi as incomparable! When this is the fact, why you all squabble over who is great! Ghatasala ji is truly great. Kishore ji is great. Mannady ji is great. But, Rafi is unique because none of these artists have the voice of Rafi, which is beyond description. Perhaps, while all other singers’ singing prowess is limited to certain styles, Rafi could render all types of songs, romantic, pathos, bitterness, sad,classic and even fast numbers. So, please stop this squabble. Please listen to all Rafi’s songs over and over and then make a comment about his dexterity and versatility, which keeps his uniquely distinct from all other greats!
Gokuldas Kumar.m
RAFI AND KISHORE ARE THE ONLY GENUINE PLAYBACK SINGERS IN HINDI FILM HISTORY SINCE THEY HAVE MADE THEIR SONGS IMMORTAL. NOW IT IS UPTO ONE’S OWN PERSONAL CHOICE WHETHER TO GO FOR RAFI OR KISHORE. SOME LIKE RAFI’S VOICE TIMBRE AND SOME KISHORE’S. ACTUALLY WHAT WE ALL FORGET WHILE DEBATING IS THAT ANY PARTICULAR HIT SONG BY ANY PARTICULAR SINGER SOUNDS BEST IN HIS/HER VOICE ONLY BECAUSE WE HEAR THE SONG FIRST IN HIS/HER VOICE. SO DEBATING A RAFI SONG COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SUNG BY KISHORE OR VICE VERSA IS COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL. OUR EARS GET STUCK TO THE ORIGINAL VERSION ONLY. NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE SECOND VERSION MAY BE WE WILL ALWAYS PREFER THE ORIGINAL EVEN IF THE ORIGINAL IS TECHNICALLY SHORTER THAN THE SECOND VERSION. FOR E.G. ‘O DUNIYA KE RAKHWALE’ IS AN IMMORTAL SONG BY RAFI AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH BETTER ANOTHER SINGER SINGS IT , BE IT KISHORE OR MANNA OR TALAT OR ANY ONE WE WILL WANT TO HEAR THE RAFI VERSION AT THE END OF THE DAY. SAME THING GOES FOR KISHORE , E.G. MERE SAPNO KI RANI ETC. AND ALSO FOR ANY OTHER SINGER. HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING SUPPOSE ANY ONE OF US HERE IN THIS DEBATING PLATFORM CAN SING AND HE SINGS A HIT SONG. THEN NO OTHER SINGER CAN HAVE THAT SAME EFFECT AS HIM FOR THAT PARTICULAR SONG BECAUSE WE GET STUCK BY THE ORIGINAL ONE. SO IT IS USELESS COMPARING SINGERS ON THE BASIS OF THE SONG IMPACT, OF COURSE ONE CAN ARGUE ON THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF A SONG BUT HERE ALSO AT THE END OF THE DAY THE IMPACT OF THE SONG WINS OVER TECHNIQUE BECAUSE WE LOVE TO LISTEN TO SONGS INSTEAD OF JUDGING THEM TECHNICALLY.
ONE MORE THING , LIKE RAFI AND KISHORE AND MANNA WHO ARE MOST DISCUSSED HERE , WE SHOULD ALSO PRAISE HEMANTA MUKHERJEE BECAUSE HE ALSO HAD A DIVINE VOICE; JUST LISTEN TO HIS OLD BENGALI AND HINDI NUMBERS; YOU WILL GET MESMERIZED.
THANK YOU ALL, AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS GOOD MUSIC THAT WINS.
Mr Kishore fan if you want to compare kishore da in terms of hits then it would be better to compare his hits from 70’s with himesh reshamiya’s songs in 2004 to 2008 though we both know that is worthless..
Here we r talking abt quality and i thnk in terms of quality songs Rafi saab is ahead of Kishore da…Altough kishoreda is also great and trully one of the best but an overall comparison btwn him and rafi puts rafi ahead…
Also I dont thnk that any other singer in hindi industry can touch both of these..
Dear Kishorefanji; Bhattacharyaji;
Thank you for your kind remarks. Although I am a fan of Mohammed rafi and hold him to my highest esteem, that does not prevent me from showing respect and my admiration to other distiguished singers like Kishore kumar, Manna Dey or Ghantasala. They were all musical luminaries in their respected fields. As Kishorefanji has stated I also have very high respects for Vitthalji whom I have come across in the site Mohammed Rafi-The true voice. His approach, style and analysis is highly praiseworthy since he believes in the same democratic values that I do. Every one has the right to put forward his opinion but that should be done in such a way that does not hurt the sentiments of others. I am confident if everyone of us follows this way of approach we can always enter into healthy debate despite having difference of opinion.
Regards
Post 2012 – Musharaff ji
I agree with your last para where you have mentioned that both rafi and kishore dominated the bollywood – that is correct and no dispute about that. Your post appears to be a balanced one as compared to other hardcore rafi fans and accordingly your views are respected please. Regarding the comment in my earlier post on rafi as an OKAY singer, it was not my comment, I had just mentioned that it was made by one of the great music director who closely worked with rafi, and he has mentioned that. I simply quoted that information. Otherwise, I have nothing against rafi, and I agree with you that both rafi and kishore have a great following and both were great singers.
2012 – Musharaff ji
To a large extent, I believe and take your post as a reasonable post. Even I had in one of my earlier post clearly refuted the supposed aired comment of salil ji mentioning rafi was not a singer at all. We are well aware of “some” nice songs of rafi and no dispute about that. And i have made this clear in my earlier post.
Next, I am in complete agreement with your following para :
“Both Rafi and Kishore were great singers and they dominated Bollywood during two different times. And one has to remember that Bollywood is the national forum where the best talents from all over India compete. No singer from whole of India has more fans that Rafi and Kishore have.”
Yes, national forum has a base for reaching to a large popularity base and hence artists from bollywood are more popular than others. This does not in any way preclude the regional industries producing great incomparable talents whether singers or actors or actresses etc. Many of them have been discussed in this category notably, ghantasala the unique singer of the south, among actors NTR, Sivaji ganesan etc., who too incidentally are quite popular among the respective masses.
Dear Musharraf ji, we come across rare rafi fans like you, who point equal greatness for kishore kumar, which you have mentioned in your para regarding kishore’s domination along with rafi ji’s domination. We welcome and respect such views from true rafi fans like you and we have great respect for such people who are capable of analysing things correctly. We had one Mr. Vitthal ji earlier, our nice friend, who too was a rafi fan and equally a ghantasala fan and through him only ghantasala was made known in this forum better. Such was Mr. Vitthal ji, that his posts were very interesting and exciting, pouring respect for all artists. We had our another friend Mr. Satyansh ji, like vitthal ji, whose posts are also full of matured comments. We and our other friends (including some classical musicians) had many long discussions for months, very fruitful and interesting discussions, (with some funny posts in between as usual for fun from some funny people) and I request you to please read our earlier posts in this thread and also in the other thread “the divine voice of devotional kishore”. i hope and am sure that you are going to definitely enjoy the earlier discussion. Unfortunately, such environment is missing now. All our friends (except Raj and Bhattacharya ji as of now) have stopped posting long back due to some spoiling games from “some people” . I hope such environment can be revived back only with such people, and sure with people like you, and we hope to have a great discussion ahead. I liked your post. Thanks for it.
By mohd rafi fan
2385Rahul Dixit Says:
December 12th, 2010 at 7:32 am
rafi had to sing the jaane kya dhoondti song running a high fever, yet raju bharatan doesn’t mention this fact, and doesn’t provide any direct quotes. one wonders why raju is motivated to write malicious and uncorroborated/unconfirmed things about the greatest bollywood singer of all.
however, here is a direct quote from khayyam, the md of this song. this is directly from a recent times of india article:
music director khayyam recalls that during the recording of jaane kya dhoondti hain (film: shola aur shabnam,1961),rafi was running a 102-degree fever.”but he was worried about the producer’s losses and we went ahead with the recording.despite the fever,nobody could have sung the number any better.”
read more of this article: the unforgettable rafi – the times of india
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/music/news-and-interviews/the-unforgettable-rafi/articleshow/6209646.cms#ixzz17sjzb9gm
Dear Kishorefan please read Lata ji last interview about Mohd Rafi you will know who is Moh Rafi, Also SPB interview when he said when I listen to Mohd Rafi I feel that I am not a singer…………Kishore da said the song which I can sang it the same song Mohd Rafi can sing it in many way…Asha Ji no one can win Mohd Rafi..Mukesh ji said to his son if you want to be a singer you should sing mohd Rafi songs…MMD said if God voice should be like Mohd Rafi voice, Mannay Da said mohd Rafi is from 1 to 1o than we are other singer..
KK was great singer I agree but please don’t compare what said by music director who got hit songs only sang by mohd rafi …
Rafi had to sing the Jaane Kya Dhoondti song running a high fever, yet Raju Bharatan doesn’t mention this fact, and doesn’t provide any direct quotes. One wonders why Raju is motivated to write malicious and uncorroborated/unconfirmed things about arguably the greatest Bollywood singer of all.
However, here is a direct quote from Khayyam, the MD of this song. This is directly from a recent Times of India article:
Music director Khayyam recalls that during the recording of Jaane kya dhoondti hain (film: Shola Aur Shabnam,1961),Rafi was running a 102-degree fever.”But he was worried about the producer’s losses and we went ahead with the recording.Despite the fever,nobody could have sung the number any better.”
Read more of this article: The unforgettable Rafi – The Times of India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/music/news-and-interviews/The-unforgettable-Rafi/articleshow/6209646.cms#ixzz17sJZb9gM
hi everybody,
let us not quarrel on such two great singers
both were great in their own unique way
I have one query, did kishore sang the tan sargam part of pag ghungroo bandh mira nachi thi, if not then who sang it and why
thank you all
Hello kishore fan ji – post 2008 – AND ALL OTHERS
Please do not treat current trend/modern songs as funny ones. I will just show you how beautiful they are.
AKM says – OK, agreed golden melodies were there, but the trends and eras were different. What I meant was current film songs are also just experimentative and creative. This is altogether a different era. Just see, whether the following type of compositions have been made at any time during the golden period ?
THIS QUESTION IS POSED TO ALL THE FANS OF RAFI, GHANTASALA, KISHORE (THE LEGENDS OF YESTER YEARS) ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC.
Whether any of the aforesaid singers have sung this type of composition ? This song is composed by A R Rehman – the current top music director in the south and oscar award winner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gobt9mMWeNg
The following one a BREATHLESS SONG sung by Shankar Mahadevan of the south
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca8LudJJ8gE
Just one song is enough for me from the golden period which can replicate or reconcile with the aforesaid songs. There is no classical dilution in the aforesaid songs and are the products of current reputed music directors.
Rafi fans like Musharaff ji, common man ji, Kishore fans like raj ji, kishore fan ji, Bhattacharya ji, Ghantasala fans like Bhushan ji, Murali ji etc. – please give replies to my above questions.
Raj, Kishore fan and Bhattacharya ji,
forgot to put one more point. I however am in complete agreement with Musharaff ji’s point that Rafi, followed by kishore has a great fan following as compared to other singers, – sure as somebody says, the edge being due to their presence in the national language which has the strength to reach to a large number of people as compared to the regioanl languages. – agreed.
Kishorefan & Bhattacharya ji,
I wanted to take over once you have completed your posts. Well, as Mr. Musharaff said, rafi was the only singer in bollywood/hindi film industry, who was generally and most preferred singer by maximum number of music directors as well as producers and actors. This scene continued for nearly 2 long decades in the industry – no other playback singer from hindi film industry except rafi had the monopoly rule of continuous 2 decades. Kishore kumar was just along side with rafi in 70’s, well his preference among actors and producers did increase in 70’s as compared to his earlier days, but did never place him as a monarch outclassing rafi. Next, the views of music directors – the respected salil chowdhury ji, the great RD Buman ji, and great C Ramachandra ji – some excellent songs they have rolled out. Regarding their comments, that is like only a piece of straw in a big heap of grass i.e. to say in a big industry consisting of tens of music directors, 2 or 3 music directors comments, will they matter much ? What about the remaining music directors. The aforesaid respected music directors account hardly to some 20% of bollywood industry – the remaining 80% have maintained the top status for mohd rafi ji. This is the point which has to be remembered. Agreed, there was some fact about salil ji’s views on rafi as an okay singer, – this point was discussed in rafi forum as well earlier and it was also clarified from none other than the daughter of salil chowdhury ji that her father’s views were that rafi was not his type of singer – perhaps that could be the interpretation which lead to such conclusion. Nevertheless, it should be remembered that rafi had himself sung some beautiful songs under the composition of none other than salil chowdhury ji himself. Regarding number of takes, I agree with Mr. Vivek Vardhan (post 2004), Mr. Alok (2011) and Mr. Musharaff (2012) – the music directors might have insisted for such numerous takes for more perfection and not with a intention that the singer is not perfect.
It has to be please remembered that those were the days when the vision was absolutely towards perfection as far as possible to the highest point, not only in hindi- even in other languages. Please see post 2004 of Mr. Vivek Vardhan, where in he has stated some good examples in relation to none other than the accomplished great ghantasala ji – even his vision was also similar. The point is the legends (singers or music directors) vision in those days was to achieve a highest point as far as possible in perfection, -that is the reason, the songs rolled out in those days continue to inspire and mesmerise generations even today – after decades of the demise of the legends. As Mr. Musharaff and common man says, it is the final outcome of a song which matters and not the number of takes.
Raj ji – I admire your love for kishore kumar. – Well, you opine that kishore would had a clean sweep, like ghantasala of andhra, if kishore would have been a classically accomplished talent, making even vanishing rafi. Sorry sir, i wish your dream becomes a happy one – but which cannot materialise. In my view, even if kishore was classically trained, as Mr. Musharaff says here, he would not have got a clean sweep in bollywood, he would have been just like Manna dey, I believe, sure, he would have got more preferences in bollywood even in 60’s and nothing beyond that . But the voice range factor, melody etc. are the factors where rafi ji would have simply outclassed kishore, even if kishore was a classical expert. Next, I do not think kishore can be compared with ghantasala, thinking that kishore would have been just similar to ghantasala if kishore was classically trained – never in my view, as Kishore kumar did not have that voice range and strength/depth/melody which the voice of ghantasala had, making ghantasala render very tough compositions with a constant ease & attraction , which kishore could not have achieved, even if he was classically trained. Kishore would have failed in high pitch compositions – ghantasala was an all round master – whether low or high pitches, so saying that kishore would have been similar to ghantasala would be just an imaginary situation – much similar to the imaginary fact that he would have sweeped bollywood and made rafi vanish if he was classically trained.
Hi Raj,
Expected lines as usual? Did you really expect to find out that Salil held Rafi in higher esteem than Kishore? 😀 How come you’re ignoring this fact? 😀
Kishorefan,
“Now, we are told that rafi used to take some 20-30 takes for a song (which are not even tough), even after that music director salil ji was not satisfied. Kyan kahe isko common man ji ?”
I say what I’ve said before. Rafi has sang 5000 songs. Your above story is probably something that did not happen very often. OP Nayyar reported the opposite! It’s certainly not something to generalize. Second, the final song is far more important to me than the number of takes. Third, we don’t always know the reason for extra takes. I’ve heard stories where MDs asked singers for extra takes just for the sake of it or for subjective reasons. Why? Because again, the final product is what counts.
“So outrightly mentioning those statements as false is also not correct, dear Mr. Common Man.”
I did no such thing. Get back to me when you achieve some basic reading comprehension 😀 😀
Dear Bhattacharyaji. Post-1999. Kishorefanji.Post-2002.
When someone states that if Kishore was classically trained there would be no Rafi at all or there would have been a clear sweep for Kishore, such stray statements can hardly be accepted since such conclusions have been derived from unreal or imaginary situations and thus such inferences can not be termed logical rather hypothetical and subjective.
What further astonished me to read the statement that Rafi was just an OKAY singer.
If Rafi was only an OKAY singer how he could dominate the Bollywood music world continuously and totally uninterrupted for two long decades(50s &60s) and how could the great music directors,SJ,LP,SD,Madanmohan, Roshan,OPN etc. back Rafi during all this time and utilized his voice that resulted in the creation of finest of songs that Bollywood ever produced, songs that became legendaries?
As regards classical training the general understanding is that it gives the singer the better ability to sing all types of songs. But there is no rule or theory that says that better a singer has classical proficiency, more successful will he be in play-back singing. It is believed and held that Manna Dey had an edge over Rafi in classical training and yet Rafi outclassed him in playback singing. What is the reason? It is the voice structure that is God-gifted makes all the difference. Says lata mangeshkar in her interview with “The daily Hindu”(The link is broadly available), ” Rafi could outclass any co- singer with his voice range, whether it be me, Asha or Mannada. But he never let his co-singer understand that he or she had been out-classed. So humble was Rafi saab.”
Kishore was a natural talent.Now hypothetically speaking, if Kishore was sufficiently classically trained he would certainly have made some improvement but that could not change his own voice structure. That is why one can observe that neither Manna Dey nor Kishore have to there credit high pitch songs such as “Duniya ke rakhwale” or “Zindabaad aye mohabbat zindabaad”. Such was the quality of Rafi’s voice that it became soft and melodious when he sang”Abhi na jao chhor kar” or “Aise to na dekho” and radiated steel boldness when he sang”Kar chale hum fida jan tan sathiyon” or “Yeh Bharat desh hai mera”.
And last and but not the least it matters little to the listener when he enjoys a song regarding how many time the singer took when he recorded the song. When he listens to “Mere mehboob tujhe” from RafI or ” Mere mehboob qayamat hogi” from Kishore he is instantly satisfied without wondering how many times each took to recording.
Both Rafi and Kishore were great singers and they dominated Bollywood during two different times. And one has to remember that Bollywood is the national forum where the best talents from all over India compete. No singer from whole of India has more fans that Rafi and Kishore have.
Regards.
Hello,
Referring to the article in rediff mail recently on the comments of music directors such as salil chowdhury, pancham, C Ramachandra etc. i personally opine that might be rafi sahab has taken a number of takes for some songs in which he wanted to have a greater perfection and also the music director wanted to have a greater outlook for the particular rendition. this does not however lead to conclusion that rafi was a singer who always used to take number of rehearsals for songs. A singer of rafi calibre could sing many songs very easily. The technically indepth songs, sure, rafi might have taken some extra takes for putting up a more perfection. Rafi sahab remains one of the best legends the playback singing industry has ever produced in India and undoubtedly the most admired singer in the hindi film industry – never any doubt about it. And coming to views of music directors such as salil chowdhury, pancham etc. they might be some isolated comments specificallly in reference to some of such renditions as mentioned above and hence cannot be generalised in my view.
Well, some guys have focussed on south – sure, singer on the calibre of ghantasala having excellent technical expertise and very good voice range might have pulled very tough compositions in a single take – that is great. No body can dispute the greatness of a singer on the range of ghantasala who was incidentally an established music director as well. I think it is not fair to compare a singer of the calibre of ghantasala with any other legend, sure he was a telugu playback monarch, undisputed, and moreover was from the highly talented classical herd group – His approach & equation towards a composition hence, will be certainly different. Hence, he is going to have a sure edge in many areas – never any doubts. I sincerely hope fans of ghantasala will note this point.
Kishorefan ji,
Welcome back. I have also joined after a long time, was just watching some interesting discussion, as you might have observed – just wanted to put some points. Among the famed music directors, salil chowdhury ji was one among the best ones. When lata herself mentioned his compositions as challenging, we can infer that he was the challenging music director at that time. S D Burman too was another music director along with salil ji and was one among the best. In 1958, SD preferred kishore kumar in chalti kanaam gadi – see the confidence of SD ji.
Kishore fan bhai,
Namashkar, bahut dinon ke baad apne message post kiya. A good clear post by you after a long time. Hamare dost, common man ji kahan chale gaye ?
Dear bhai AKM ji, – 2004
Good funny post, nice to discuss with you. Well, we want to understand current music trends, but to properly discuss them, are the songs popular similar to the good old golden melodies. how many days the current songs are being remembered ? The songs vanish along with the film. Still, we hear those old golden melodies only in maximum. So, sorry my dear AKM, it is very difficult to understand current songs in view of such type of situation, we can well concentrate on them when they try to reach at least nearer to the status of the songs from the golden era of playback singing, which I think will never happen.
bhattacharya,
you didn’t address the evidence that disproved your prior statement of salil considering rafi an “ok” singer. you just go on speculating with little substance…later again…again you speculate on how i would respond if raju bharatan had “mentioned anything for any other singer”…your speculations hold no substance…on the contrary, i prefer the truth and nothing else…i have often defended kishore kumar from similar attacks.
hi raj,
“fact and comments made reputed hindi music directors” go both ways. there were many more music directors who loved rafi than the music directors who did not prefer him. many “facts and comments” are often limited to a particular context. i am on this site and talking about rafi & kishore because i am a music lover…why don’t you share some romantic songs of kishore that showed his versatility ofer rafi (as i did in my prior list)? sharing songs is far more interesting
Rafi fans
Many claim in rafi’s site that rafi’s voice is a universal voice, that this and etc. etc. Then what is this hungama going on from salil chowdhury, R D Burman, C Ramachandra, lata (including) etc. etc. Where has the universal factor gone ?
Hi,
Appears to be lot of funny dudes here, discussing about people who left more than 30 years back. Good, some golden melodies have been rolled in those days, agreed, but please learn to appreciate current trend of music as well. Even current singers, are very talented. These days one can find even people with very lesser age singing songs exceptionally well. what does that imply ? The musical brains have improved a lot, thanks to the technology advancement.
Dear Friends/fans of all great legends.
I wanted to narrate some facts when the discussion is going on recording in many takes, of golden songs from the golden era of playback singing – Such effort was simply necessary to roll out songs in absolute perfection making them to be remembered and admired by generations.
In any industry, some positive and negative points tends to exist, similar for the singers. But it would be better if concentration is laid more on strengths than on weaknesses. OK Rafi might have taken 20 takes or even 50 takes, ultimately it has to be seen what is the final outcome. The beautiful song, it is natural that at least such effort has to go into making the song beautiful making it to be remembered for decades by generations. Since there were so many takes in earlier days, beautiful and incomparable gems rolled out with perfection from the voices of rafi ji and other great legends. I feel same might be the case with ghantasala as well, as earlier some one was mentioning that in a telugu picture lava kusa (music direction – ghantasala), p suseela and p leela, the singers were asked by ghantasala to practise a song for minimum 20 days. Ghantasala mentioned that at least 20 days practise is required to render the song to my level of analysis and perfection. See that was the vision those days be it hindi or telugu. Sure, some might say ghantasala rendered siva sankari, syamala dandakam etc. in only one take, that is really great & admirable feat, but it should be noted that despite his great musicall skills, ghantasala himself used to rigorously practise song for long. I was told that ghantasala practised siva sankari song for nearly 15 days before recording, fine, in recording the song was okayed in only one take which was a great feat, but please note the rigorous practise at the back. Well, one speciality for ghantasala was that he never used to take recording unless he practised the song to the complete level of perfection. Hence, recording used to become easy in few takes (even in a single take at times) .
Another song, music directed by SHANKAR JAI KISHAN in a telugu film jeevitha chakram, sung by ghantasala was recorded only in first take in bombay in 1970 for which shankar jai kishan stood in awe seeing at the recording of the song only in first take. It was even told that some of the troop members even fell at the feet of ghantasala after the recording saying sorry , that they had a poor impression on ghantasala, when they saw ghantasala first in the studio before recording of the song. All the troop were almost hindi musicians, only ghantasala alone was a southern man there. See the beautiful equation between a hindi musician and southern musician, how well understood and achieved. I think since ghantasala too was a accomplished music director, there was a sure edge for him & things became easier for him as compared to other legends. In those days, not only the singer, even the musicians who play instruments were to be perfect. When a singer was perfect, if any of the instruments played wrong tune, again the song was required to be sung from the beginning. Such difficult effort was put by the singers, as a result of which we have great immortal songs continuing for decades with a mammoth fan following for the legends. Today, no such effort is there, with the help of technology bits are added up and shown, as such strictly speaking the songs are not much remembered as compared to the songs from the golden era of playback singing be it hindi or telugu.
Common man
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/God-wanted-me-to-sing-Lata/articleshow/5063966.cms
The above link, lata mangeshkar rates salil da’s compositions as very challenging. So one should not take the views of salil chowdhury ji lightly, just because he has stated against rafi. It is natural for hardcore fans to react in such a way, when such comment comes from none other than a reputed music director as salil da.
Doston – Raj, Bhattacharya, Kishore premi adi log, – Kaise hai aap sab log.
Zyada din se es site par comments nahi kiya, hamare dost log i.e. arghya, paramjeet, satyansh, vitthal ji, and others are no more participants here – there were some very beautiful discussions earlier in this forum.
Bahut dino ke baad aaya hoon yeh site pe. Some truths and facts have come out these days. That is nice to see.
Common man, – hello, how are you ?
It is the same old story, need not be repeated again. Rafi sahab himself never claimed to be great, but his fans do that, so nothing much to take on that count. Our discussions are with rafi fans only not rafi sahab, who if alive today, would have exactly shown the correct picture to rafi fans. I do not know whether rafi fans will admit that if some 20-30 takes are taken for a song to be recorded, one can vouchsafe for the talent of the artist. In his stylish songs, kishore kumar used to simply pull off the songs. I heard earlier from ghantasala fans that really tough songs like siva sankari and others of ghantasala were recorded only in one take – does it not prove the strength of an accomplished artist ? Now, we are told that rafi used to take some 20-30 takes for a song (which are not even tough), even after that music director salil ji was not satisfied. Kyan kahe isko common man ji ? I hope you would be the better person to kindly enlighten us on this.
Next, outrightly I also do not fully accept with some fans for some comments like that salil did not consider rafi a singer at all ? Cannot find reason for such conclusion, there are certainly some nice rafi songs, which have to be really admired but based upon such songs, straight conclusion cannot be drawn to count rafi as the top in the industry – never. Might be salil da’s style was a different one, for which rafi’s voice or style of singing was not suitable. Nevertheless, salil da was a great music director, hence it would not be proper to comment on such luminary. When a musician on the range of Salil chowdary, Pancham da, C Ramachandra, who were well known music director having composed some very great songs, have commented that rafi was just an OKAY singer, there should be some base for it. So outrightly mentioning those statements as false is also not correct, dear Mr. Common Man.
Bhattacharya ji,
I will not go much into the “takes” business, might be the music directors desired for lot of perfection and expectations. But for sure, a really accomplished singer should take the “minimum takes possible”. The song siva sankari, rasika raja and syamala dandakam of ghantasala (presented earlier in this forum), & believed to be the toughest ever songs composed, were recorded only in one take by ghantasala bhattacharya ji, – this point is repeated many times in doordarshan programmes on ghantasala.
Among the southern singers even SPB is heard to take lesser takes as far as possible, in recording his songs (SPB had his guru in ghantasala) – otherwise it had been difficult to render 40,000 songs plus by SPB in his career.
Raj ji
My heartful thanks and admirations for your post. You all are nice people, understanding, may you be always happy. I think I will take the privilege of completing the post 2000 here – in this great kishore forum.
COMMON MAN
If you call the views of music directors as false, it is not at all surprising. I had already quoted in my previous post – nothing to be surprised if such comments come up. No surprise at all. Next, as salil chowdary ji stated kishore had a exceptional voice – only the classical strength if he had, the display would have been like, hmmm, I can recall only ghantashala of andhra in that area. As our friend kishore fan was mentioning earlier, kishore would have been like ghantashala, if he was classically trained. Same thing the reputed music director, salil chowdary ji had also mentioned. But you people should be very happy, kishore was not classically exceptional or exceptionally trained (but was gifted with good sur and natural talent), if had it been, there would not have been a rafi at all in bollywood. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A CLEAN SWEEP FOR KISHORE KUMAR WITHOUT ANY COMPETITION FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER IN BOLLYWOOD – similar to the ghantashala in andhra.
Next, why do you fall upon raju bharatan ? Why can’t he be correct in his views. Generally people who speak bitter truths are bashed up, it happens in any area. You are showing your ire on raju ji, because he stated views of some music directors stating rafi as on OKAY singer. But if the same man had mentioned anything for any other singer, you people would have kept quiet – oh, what a excellent reason my dear common man ?
NOT ONLY THE TRUTH OF SOME 21 TAKES (Jaane Kya Dhoondte Phirti Aankhen Tujh Main (Shola Aur Shabnam),BY RAFI – AND LATA JI AND SALIL JI’S DISSATISFACTION FOR THE SONG TASVEER DIL MEIN, I HEARD THAT RAFI TOOK MORE THAN 30 TAKES FOR KUHU KUHU BOLEY KOYALIYA SONG IN HINDI, WHEN BHARAT RATNA LATA MANGESHKAR JI EXPRESSED THE DESIRE TO SING THE SONG WITH GHANTASHALA JI, – THIS IS ANOTHER INSTANCE, MY DEAR COMMON MAN. IT WAS ADMITTED BY RAFI THAT HE WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH HIS OWN RENDITION DESPITE SO MANY TAKES AND HE COULD NOT DISPLAY THE CULTURE AS WAS DISPLAYED IN THE TELUGU SONG.
So, please do not get angry or be out of balance of mind, if you hear such truths about rafi. Morevoer, these facts come directly from the music directors or singers associated with rafi and not you and me, dear common man and we are discussing views of such legendary luminaries. When our friends Shri Surajit bose ji and Shri khan ji etc. made such points, all of your friends were questioning whether these people are so knowledgable than the music directors who have praised rafi. Well, now please graciously comment on the music directors / singer’s comments being discussed here and who were associated with rafi. Such truths come up common man ji, despite hiding and please do not feel otherwise as one has to accept the facts.
Kishore premi ji – dhanyavad, apne sahi songs pesh kiye hai.
Common man
On expected lines as usual. I have already made it clear that I have nothing against rafi – I just mentioned the facts and comments made by reputed hindi music directors. If you call them false, well those are your views please. Already rafi premis have started their original ire against the so called music directors in the sister forum. Well, it was again expected as Mr. Bhattacharya has already mentioned.
Kishore premi ji –
welcome, just very nice to see the number of songs highlighted by you. I am with you, had kitna pyara wada would have been rendered by kishore, certainly it would have been a different song – much on the lines of kora kagaz tha etc. The fact that Mere mehboob song is a texture of purely hindusthani classical type which the music director has shown his classical taste there, wherein as already discussed kishore did not create any magic in the classical arena, so bringing such songs in comparison would not create any importance in comparing songs in my view.
Bhushan ji
It is very nice to note the respect of music directors towards accomplished singers in the south. My admirations for the genius singer of Andhra on his birthday. Nice to note that. Kishore and ghantasala were born on 4th – good the date is common.
Raj and Bhattacharya ji,
I heard the news earlier also. In fact, it was stated that salil chowdary did not consider rafi a singer at all ? Of course, I do not agree with that, but I do not know what the great salil ji meant by his words, perhaps rafi did not match his expectations. I did not know that even pancham, c ramachandra etc. also were not happy with rafi.
In our south, no music director or musician has passed any comment at any time except peerless admiration always for ghantasala, the impeccable record continues – a one more factor which creates an edge for ghantasala. Yesterday was 4th Dec. the birthday of ghantasala (kishore kumar too was born on 4th Aug. – date being the same) – celebrations in andhra were numerous – Of course, this is only a sharing information pl.
bhattacharya,
you wrote: “who considered rafi just as an OKAY singer. They stated that there were many better singers than rafi.”
that statement is simply FALSE! it’s no fun to discuss when you state incorrect *FACTS*. salil held rafi in the highest regard. see my other post on this. you’re taking one instance of “tasveer teri dil mein” – taking an out of context, in complete account by raju and generalizing it. more details are already in prior posts.