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The Divine Voice of ‘Devotional ‘ Kishore

by Arghya Dutta Kishore Kumar is considered to be a “versatile genius” with so many outstanding facets of his artistic personality. If overall as an artist, Kishore is versatile, only in singing domain he is a “versatile singer” in a true nature. Right from romantic to sad to soulful to motivating to semi-classical to qawwali […]

by Arghya Dutta

Kishore Kumar is considered to be a “versatile genius” with so many outstanding facets of his artistic personality. If overall as an artist, Kishore is versatile, only in singing domain he is a “versatile singer” in a true nature. Right from romantic to sad to soulful to motivating to semi-classical to qawwali to patriotic and to ghazals, Kishore had shown his tremendous variety in his god-given voice each and every time he had stood behind the microphone.

Here we discuss, yet another interesting genre of songs from Kishoreda – devotional songs – where he, as always, did tremendous perfection in singing, although he remained underrated always.

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Kishoreda’s first true devotional song was “Leela Aparampar prabhuji teri leela aparampar” which he sang in the movie, Humsafar(1953). The song was composed by the maestro Ustad Ali Akbar Khan sahib. The song requires extensive voice modulation and Kishore sang the song with great feeling. The antara where he goes up with “ O neele ambar pe basaria, teri jay jaykaar…,” the feeling touches hearts.

Next came the classic “Haal tujhe apni duniya ka nazar to aata hoga” from Asha(1957). Composed by one of Kishore’s earliest admirers, C Ramchandra, the song is different, as now, Kishore is complaining to the Almighty for all the misdoingd on planet earth. His voice carries the grief and complaint and very “open throated”.. with “ Maalik tu bhi isko banaake ab pachhtata hoga…” truly depicts a person’s disappointment which he keeps in front of the god,,,

One of my most favourite devotional song from Kishore was in Door Gagan Ki Chhaon Mein(1964)- a song which he himself composed and sang alongwith Manna De. The song “O jag ke rakhwale humein tujh bin kaun sambhaale” is very soulful and touches heart immediately with the divine tune.. Manna starts the song with chorus and Kishore enters very late and immediately leaves a heavy impact with “Kiya sab kuchh tere hawaale, o jag ke rakhwale”.. Manna reportedly praised Kishore openly for the composition as well as the rendition… Shows again, the genius of that man- Kishore Kumar!

Kishore sang many devotional songs in the 70s, when he was on the top spot in playback singing. Chhoti Bahu(1971) saw Kishore rendering “Hey re kanhaiya, kisko kahega tu maiyya..” composed by his long time associates Kalyanji-Anandji.. The song depicts the dilemma of young Kanhaiyya, as he was born in Devki’s house but brought up in Yashda’s home and finding it difficult whom he should call “his actual mother”.. “Jisme tujhko janam diya ya jisne tujhko pala…”, very simple lyrics and simple tune and Kishore’s “open voice” makes this song very close to heart..

Ram ka naam badnaam na karo..” is perhaps the most popular devotional song of Kishore which he sang in Hare Rama Hare Krishna(1971) under Rahul Dev Burman. Youth getting astray are motivated by Kishore with the “tyaag” and “dharma” of Rama and Krishna here with a voice “pioneering” and “comforting”.. The feelings which he brings here also makes the song memorable and timeless. “Ram ko samjho, Krishna ko jaano, neend se jaago o mastano..”, Kishore calls the youth to follow the “true path”of Almighty to come out of darkness.

Mere Jeevan Sathi(1972) is mainly rememberd for the romantic songs of Kishore for Rajesh Khanna, but the song “Aao kanhai mere dham” is very special for those who love Bhajans.. The true passion and anxiety of a bhakt for not getting the darshan of Lord Krishna, is reflected in the anxious voice of Kishore “dekho ho gayi shaam”… Composed by Rahul Dev Burman- a truly sublime bhajan for Kishore..

Naya Din Nayi Raat(1974) saw this time Laxmikant Pyarelal turning to Kishore for a nice melodious and simple Krishna vandana in terms of “Krishna Krishna bolo Krishna…”, influenced by Bengali kirtan- with proficient usage of the instrument “khol”. The song was sung very melodiously by the two legends- Kishore and Lata and is even popular to this day!

In 1974, the newcomer music director Rajesh Roshan handed Kishoreda a very high pitch beautiful devotional number “Jai Bholenath Jai Ho Prabhu” in the movie “Kunwara Baap” where Kishore sang as many as 4 songs … Although, the song might not have left too much of an impact as a “devotional song” in the mind of the audience, it is very much a memorable and a very melodious song of Kishore and Lata..

But the best was yet to come!! Laxmi-Pyare turned again to Kishore with “Prem ka rog laga mujhe yeh”- a classic devotional song on a semi-classical note in Do Premee(1980)! All the three antaras were different from one another and the note changes were complex!! With lot of vigour in his voice, Kishore sang like a truly “magan” bhakta in “Yeh kaanton ke haar hai saare , murari..” This song is still a showcase of Kishore’s multi layered voice!!

The next considerable devotional song was “Bhole O Bhole” from Yarana(1981) composed by Rajesh Roshan, may not be called a “true devotional song” in a proper sense, but had the essence of a troubled mind addressing the God.

The last significant bhajan by Kishore was in Swami Dada(1982) for Rahul Dev Burman with “Ek roop kayin naam man mandir tera dham..”.. Again a simple tune sang with lot of emotions… But bhajans were scarce those days in Hindi Cinema, and this song remained the “swan song” for Kishore as far as devotional songs are concerned…

In 1986, recovering a heart attack, Kishore recorded his last Rabindrasangeet album (Bangla) with music arrangement of his another true admirer- Hemant Kumar.. The typical low note devotional Rabindrasangeet “ Klanti aamaar khama koro prabhu…” (Please forgive my tireness, O Lord..), according to me, is the best devotional song of Kishore …

A man of many moods, Kishore truly proved his versatility in all genres of singing.. Although, his devotional songs cannot fall in the same category of “Man tarapat hari darshan” or “Sukh ke sab saathi”, but the glimpse of his great talent cannot be overlooked in all the devotional songs he had sung!! A truly “divine” voice!

468 Responses to “The Divine Voice of ‘Devotional ‘ Kishore”

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  1. 101
    Mr D P BIJOOR Says:

    Post 100 — Arghyajee
    For your kind information Rafi Saab has sung total 25 songs with Salil Choudhary comprising of 15 solo songs & 10 duet songs

  2. 102
    arghya Says:

    Post No. 99

    J K. Bhagchandaniji..

    Are you the last word to define what is “good” and what is “mediocre”? If you have read the article properly, you should know I have explicitly mentioned Kishoreda is definitely not the one to sing the best devotional songs in the films.. But, still your comments prove how “insecured” you people are, even after admitting Kishore is not the best devotional singer, you epople still want to keep them unearthed, as if, something “undesirable to you” would come out!! May I ask why? I particularly mentioned that it is the readers who would decide whether the songs are good or not, and I do not have any authority to decide.. It is only an attempt to let people know what Kishore had in devotional category..

    And at least, thank Kishoreda, Bhagchandaniji, that we do not abuse greats like OP( who ended up saying Amit Kumar is a better singer than his father!!) or Naushad( who had said once that classically untrained singers can achieve nothing) like you people do with Salil or Pancham.. Let me tell you, Bhagchandaniji, Salil not only held a very high regard for Rafi but also told quite explicitly that Rafi had an edge over Kishore!

    But, you guys are never satisfied with Jupiter ans Saturn theory, but always want things to happen in Sun and Lamp theory- which unfortunately, was never the case, is never the case and would never be the case!

    Thanks.
    Arghya Dutta.

  3. 103
    arghya Says:

    Let me also say that, yes, I strike at Rafi fans, because of their foolish and abusive remarks at the other legends.. And they respond to me with more comical abusive remarks at the legends only..9lots of laugh)

    That is why their response comes interms of:
    1. Salil Chowdhury was a murderer and imprisoned.
    2. R D Burman had trash music.
    3. Kishore Kumar had a hoarse voice..
    4. Anil Biswas was a chameleon.

    Lataji and Ashaji also had their share of classical comic statements as well..

    Logical questions should be answered in logical ways, not in comical ways..Eternal fools( as one of colleague puts it) are eternal caricatures also, really!

  4. 104
    unknow Says:

    Mohd Rafi classic song in KK voice and please stop to say that KK is versatile genius……….pleas never try to compare him with other singer or as actor to other actor or director to other director………
    There only two versatile singer in Bollywood Mohd Rafi and Asha ji and after them Lata ji with Mannay day

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioSOHB0HeTU&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd1_yG9k11w

    In Mohd Rafi Voice
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvW7LbUidao&feature=related

    Mohd Rafi like sun shine please stop to compare with monn and stars

  5. 105
    Peeyush Says:

    I love music and particularly old hindi music. As such I love to listen to any one from KLS, KC DEy, Pahadi SDanyal, Kanan Devi to all greats and even Mubarak Begum, Suman K, Krishna Kalle, Sharda etc. I find my self loving each and every singer as I love each and every music composer. I do not think any true music lover can indulge in mud slinging for any other artist. Music is direct derivation from Almighty and is divine in its all aspects.
    I live in Toronto, Canada. And peculiarly, I was the one who wrote the main tribute one full page write up on Kishore in Screen when he died in 1987. I have also written, edited and published a biography of Anil Biswas. I have conducted intensive (20 to 100 hour) interviews with Hemant, Salil, Ravi, Waheeda Rehman, VK Murthy, RD Burman, Meena Kapoor, Vijay Anand, Shakti Samanta, Amit Kumar, Manna Dey etc. A very brief one with Rafi as well. Believe me, all are great as they have given so much pleasure for us to cherish all our lives. Listen to music and love it. Drive away all negetivity and just enjoy, it is Divine. Regards. Peeyush.

  6. 106
    J.K. Bhagchandani Says:

    Post 102,

    Dear Mr. Aragya,

    You are absolutely right that I am no authority to decide what is good and what is mediocre. But nor are you. Hope you agree. You said that it is people (readers) to decide whether devotional songs you mentioned are good or not. So dear, I gave my views (about those songs) as a reader only, but perhaps you were mentally not ready for that. In fact in your own admission the devotional songs you mentioned were not the best devotional film songs. So doesn’t writing about ‘not so great songs’ form an act of ‘glorifying the mediocrity’ (that I mentioned in my previous post)?

    I don’t know why you had to bring Salilda in your reply. He was never part of this discussion. But since you have mentioned him, let me point out one thing. In your post no. 100 you have said that Mohd. Rafi will not feature in first 5 male singers that Salilda was associated with. However in post 102 you say that “Salil not only held a very high regard for Rafi but also told quite explicitly that Rafi had an edge over Kishore!” If that is so then why was Kishore preferred over Rafi by Salilda? Is this not a fit case of regional considerations overpowering professional (or should we say musical) judgment?

    I do not subscribe to abusing greats on this or the ‘other community’ site. But don’t be under the illusion that Kishore fans are not indulging into it. Please read all the posts of this article only… of Paramjit … and so many others. In fact your post no 100 you have done precisely the same but in a polished way using your English language skills to your advantage.
    Coming to your point of Rafi fans feeling ‘insecure’…. oh dear, come on…. I am sure you must be kidding. In fact your write up, your posts suggest that it is the other way round. Most of the write-ups, posts here have the under-current of ‘insecurity’ in the face of enormity of Rafi’s extra-rich musical wealth.

    It is neither a case of Jupiter and Saturn nor Sun and Lamp theory. In plain simple words Kishore Kumar was a very good singer, and Mohd. Rafi was an exceptional (out of the world) singer. Your last phrase of post 102 “……which unfortunately, was never the case, is never the case and would never be the case!” is an indicator of not only ‘insecurity’ but also of desperation.

    Aragya ji… please take this post in the right spirit. I have absolutely nothing against Kishore. It is your somewhat irrational logic and attempt to project him above all that has prompted me to write this.
    Meanwhile to brighten your mood, sending below to you a link of a rare Kishore gem (duet with Meena Kapoor). This is one my favourite songs of Kishore Kumar. (this is just to indicate that I do like Kishore Kumar too, and am fully aware of his very fine songs)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLHsR_v79S0

    Thank You.

  7. 107
    arghya Says:

    To my friend Kishorefan:

    Dear, I saw some eternal fools arguing with you that RD used Rafi more than Kishore during 1978-1980. Brother, just show those fools this link:

    http://www.yoodleeyoo.com/kishore-diary/an-endless-feud-between-the-fans-of-mohammed-rafi-and-kishore-kumar.html/comment-page-51/#comments

    Refer to my post 1269 and put in front of them..
    A pure statistics just to clear their foggy vision glass

  8. 108
    arghya Says:

    Post No. 104.

    Bro, dont give hillarious comparison..

    Was Mohammed Rafi an actor acting in more than 69 movies as hero resulting in singing(as well as acting on the screen) around 300 songs being picturized on him?

    Had it been the case, he also would have had his own share of giving lips to other singers singing for him.. (due to various reasons of course)

    Don’t mind.. I sound harsh a bit to nonsense statements to prove greatness.

    Bhagchandaniji..

    I dont know what you got from my post 100.. I wrote it as an analysis of your colleagues’ reactions to a great freedom fighter cum mass leader cum poet cum composer called Salil Chowdhury. And I cross my side of the fence only when I read abusive and controversial remarks and not like you people who poke their noses even when a genuine music discussion is going on.. Your comment saying “Krishna krishna bolo krishna” a below average song, itslef shows how “insecured” you are and how biasedly you take music..

    Talking of regionalism, Bhagchandaniji, Lata Mangeshkar sang more Bengali songs under Salil than Sandhya Mukhejee( the voice of Suchitra Sen in Bengali movies and a positive combo with Salilda also ).. Come out of myopic views and appreciate which singer had what best in his/her voice which were exploited by several MDs matching with their style.. Salil Chowdhury very explicitly meant that Rafi had edge over Kishore due to his classical training(which I have agreed also more than once in this forum only)- or rather “Alankar” part of classical singing, to be more precise. Salil Chwodhury was never a genuine pure Indian classical composer, neither he used to undertake historical or devotional assignments too many… His compositions were rhythmic with spontaneous switching of notes, traversing and hopping across octaves, orchestrated and harmonized to perfection.. So, he chose voices who could do those jobs for him perfectly- as simple as that!!!

    Lastly, can you imagine “Koi hota jisko apna” in 1971 in Rafi sahab’s voice which requires constant traversing in lowest octave? “dha”..”ni”..”dha”..”pa”..( in the mukhda)? Salil had given a low octave song to Rafi sahab way back in 1958 with “ni” or “dha” in the lowest octave being the lowest note.. Koi hota was even lower, so, perhaps he had his choice of singer acordingly..

    Please take music technically and accept certain facts with a clear vision glass rather than “insecurity” and “biasedness”..

    “Yeh sama hum tum jawan” is a lovely composition from Roshan sahab from the film Maashooqa(1953).. Mukeshji was the hero this film and this song was picturized on Agha who was the side actor this film.. Listen to “Jhilmil taare kare hain ishaare” from the same film by Mukeshji.. A masterpiece composition..

    Thanks.

  9. 109
    arghya Says:

    And those who know me personally also know that I am an admirer of not only Rafi sahab but also to all the legends who constituted the golden era of film music..

    But, perhaps, the difference between you and me is I admire Rafi sahab for indeed what he was and not exaggerated things like “out of this world”.I dont use such lines for Kishoreda also.. lolz.

  10. 110
    J.K. Bhagchandani Says:

    Dear Mr. Arghya Datta,

    How is it that your admiration for Rafi saab is known only to those personally known to you (post 109)? Do you sing different tunes at personal level and at public forums? Ok ok dear don’t get worked up, I know you do admire Rafi saab too, and have mentioned this in some of the posts but this admiration has almost always been ‘guarded’, kind of an attempt to do a balancing act. It was this ‘urge’ to do the balancing act that prompted you to write post no. 109 (as an after-thought). It is like a debate on a news channel between spokespersons of two rival political parties, wherein the participants start with, “ I have great respect for Mr. so and so… he is good friend of mine, but……. (and then the bashing starts)..” In your case it is just the other way round…. you start with negatives in a very systematic way… and then at the end express your respect/ admiration only as a footnote, mainly to ward off the ‘bias’ tag.

    I agree that expressions such as ‘out of this world’ or ‘exceptional’ are of extreme nature; and I feel that these should be used only in ‘rarest of rare cases’. I also feel that that is what I did. There is no element of inappropriateness using these terms for Mohammad Rafi. Leave aside ordinary mortal like me (and you), musical luminaries like Yesudas, Sonu Nigam, O.P. Nayyar, Ravi, Naushad, Laxmikant-Pearelal, Bhupendra (the list is long, my dear) have used similar (if not same) expressions for him.

    Coming to the first part of your post No.108, your argument is laughable. One great playback singer singing for another great singer-cum-hero needs some attention. It was not a case that singer-cum-hero was too busy (it was not seventies decade). Your conveniently brushing aside the matter (as ‘just one of those things’- that too in a harsh and undignified manner) is an expression of arrogance or ignorance or both. All people with some knowledge and interest in film music know the reason. You too know it. Just in case you need a refresher on that please spare 10 minutes only. Listen carefully to just two songs: (1) man mora baawra…… from film Ragini and (2) Ajab hai dastaan… from the film Shararat. Listen carefully with ‘open’ mind and with your heart (not merely ears) into it. You will be reminded of the reasons for rather curious occurrence of Mohd. Rafi singing for Kishore Kumar.

    Regarding the song ‘Krishna Krishna bolo krishna…..’ your indigestion to my likes and dislikes is difficult to understand. Or may be the word ‘bias’ has got a new definition now. It is like saying “Like everything that Mr. Arghya Datta likes and don’t what he does not.” Or else you will be branded as biased. In one of your posts you have listed the songs sung by Rafi and Kishore together, and you have gone on to give your verdict and declaring that in so many songs Kishore sounds better than Rafi and in remaining both are equally good. Now you tell me who is biased and who is feeling ‘unsecured’?

    I have a decent collection of more than 100 filmi and non-filmi bhajans of many singers (K.L. Saigal, Pankaj Mullick, Mohd. Rafi, Mukesh, Manna Dey, Hemant Kumar, Mahendra Kapoor, Lata Mangeshkar, Asha Bhonsle Geeta Dutt etc.)….. but non from Kishore Kumar and Talat Mehamood. It does not dilute the greatness of either Kishore or Talat; nor it is a case of being bias. It is just that among those top 100 odd bhajans.. Kishore’s did not fit in as per my choice. (I am not aware if Talat has sung any bhajan or not…. If he has…I will request you to kindly enlighten me on that). It was in this context that a full fledged article on this aspect of Kishore Kumar (I mean his bhajans) is out of place. As I am not an authority on what is good and what is bad (as you said) and nor are you (as per me), the other neutral benchmark could be that you please list out all the bhajans of Kishore Kumar that have found place in HMV’s and any other music company’s bhajan albums released from time to time in the last 60 years. With your encyclopedia like knowledge, I am sure you can do it. In the process you will get your answers and priorities right.

    Lastly just one clarification, above comments are for Hindi bhajans. Just in case Kishore has sung some Bangla bhajans, I am not aware. Above comment is not aimed for those bhajans. And sorry for getting the spelling of your name wrong in my previous posts.

    Thank You.

  11. 111
    Vitthal Says:

    Mr. Bhagchandani

    Mr. Arghya is balanced in his posts. Even other kishore fans are balanced in their posts. Musicians such as Surajit Bose etc. are reasonable and blaanced in their views. You might not have used the word out of this world except in rarest of rare cases but many rafi fans do, for the purpose of which Mr. Arghya has quoted that. Your other messages – many other singers praising rafi that is well. But do you ( & other rafi fans) know the greatest ghantasala, with whom my relative talked for nearly 8 hours in early 70’s did not mention rafi even once and it was the other way round, indeed rafi and lata stated ghantasala as the greatest. You can read lata mangeshkar’s comments on ghantasala in his website. The purpose of my quoting this point is that : you have stated many singers praising rafi, but in my view these singers have praised rafi (of course ghantasala too on equal terms) because they believed rafi (& ghantasala) were greater than them. But the fact is, did any singer whom rafi considered to be the greatest ever praised rafi. There lies the greatness factor. Of course, as a nice human being ghantasala never commented on any singer in his life, that is a different issue, but on different occasions rafi did indeed praise ghantasala. (Rafi has sung 2 songs in 1964 in hindi film jhanda ooncha rahe hamara under the music direction of ghantasala – despite this ghantasala never commented on rafi) The telugu music director Adi Narayana Rao, while recording hindi version of kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya had told rafi that please sing in your own way and please do not try to adapt the culture of ghantasala as that was not possible. This was stated by rafi himself, as he was trying to sing in the culture of ghantasala, but all know that he could not do that. Of course, the hindi version of the song is nice by rafi and lata, & great next to the telugu number of the same.

    Same was with kishore, rafi many times praised kishore as well. Why rafi fans do not quote this point. Many rafi fans say such and such singer has praised rafi, but what about rafi praising others. Why this is not remembered. Pl. do not quote one sided views. Rafi is definitely a great singer, but I agree fully with Mr. Arghya, that he is not fully exceptional or out of the world. Rafi too has limitations. In one post One mr. Raj, a kishore fan was correctlly stating that a continuous 3 octave composition like siva sankari of ghantasala from lower notes to higher notes in 3 octaves continuously, rafi would have failed. I agree with Mr. Raj, I am yet to hear a song of Rafi which is composed in all the 3 octaves simultaneously similar to the siva sankari song of ghantasala or syamala dandakam of ghantasala which is rendered in 8 ragas simultaneously and touching the highest possible note in music by ghantasala comfortably. Discussions were had with S P Balasubramaniam on this issue, and he agreed that it is not possible for any singer to reach that level. The syamala dandakam of ghantasala is a challenge to the best of exceptional singers. When this point was raised by one Mr. Satyansh ( who is a bengali and not a ghantasala fan) in rafi forum, he was asked to get out of that forum, what is this going on at rafi forum. Similar views were expressed with Mr. Surajit Bose. Please do not think that I am comparing one singer with another, but I only wanted to remove the notion of many people claiming rafi as out of world etc. which is purely biased and subjective. There are some rafi fans who are quite balanced in their views and they are respected in even kishore forums. You can check this yourselves.

    By the way kishore fans or ghantasala fans never passed any degraded comments on rafi at any time ( you can check this in rafi forum)) but in many cases, including binu nair, have passed unpleasant comments against other singers. This indicates pure jealousy towards other legends and of course nothing can be done to remove that, because nothing can be done to remove the greatness of other legends.

  12. 112
    Vitthal Says:

    Dear Mr. Bhagchandani, contd… to my previous post

    Further, in my view some songs such as yeh dil na hota bechara, kisi shayar ki nazar, zindagi ek safar hai suhana etc. the attraction would not have been similar to kishore, if the same were sung by any other hindi singer. Kishore had a bit of majestic voice, which was attractive in its own way and in my view, perhaps rafi might have rendered those songs great but still might not have been as attractive as kishore. The song salamat rahe dostana hamara or yaadon ki barat, two famous duets by these two legends, in my view kishore is more attractive as compared to rafi. So kishore has his own attraction.

  13. 113
    arghya Says:

    Bhagchandani ji..

    You wrote so many things.. Great sir.. i encourage those.. Some points from me:

    1. You mentioned three songs being trash,viz, “Krishna krishna bolo krishna”, “Bhole o bhole” and ” Jai bolentah”.. I objected on only one song.. This makes the picture clear that Rafi fans go “overboard” while degrading others..Cool down and keep your BP under control.

    2. Let me clarify the songs which Rafi sahab sang for Kishoreda..
    a. Two songs in Bhagam Bhag(1956).. Bhagchandaniji, yes, it was not 70s.. But does that mean Kishore was not busy? In case you do not know how many releases Kishore had in 1956, let me list out:
    > Bhagam Bhag
    > New Delhi
    >Bhai Bhai
    > Paisa Hi Paisa
    > Naya Andaz
    >Memasahib
    >Dhake ki malmal

    Do you know, Bhagchandanini, even today, to complete 6 movie assignments as a lead actor in one calender year is what?? You might not, as you have never seen a movie making.. Do you know how many hours a person had to spent time in shooting in those perfectionast times to act as a leading hero? Who told you Kishore was only busy in the 70s? he was, but from a singer perspective, you have never analyzed the amount of business Kishore had in the 50s..

    b. Yes, “Man mora bawra” and “Ajab hai dastaan teri zindagi” are the only two songs which were “intentionally offered to Rafi to sing for Kishore by the MDs”- and I have put them in colons.. Kishore wanted to sing but he was deprived.. These two are the exceptions amongst the 11 songs which Kishore gave lip to other singers( 7 Rafi- 2 Bhagam Bhag, 1- Ragini, 1- Shararat, 1- Baghi Shehzada, 1-Pyar Deewana and 1- Paisa hi Paisa, 1 SD Batish- Bhagam Bhag, 2- Manna-Krorepati, Bewakoof and 1-Mukesh, Rangoli). OP Nayayr explicitly mentioned “he wanted to teach a lesson to Kishore for his disobedience in recording and hence gave the song to Rafi”.. you decide, Bhagchandaniji.. SJ had also gone through same circumstances as during the recording of “Ajab hai daastan teri zindagi” Kishore did not turn up on time for the recording.. The year of release of Shararat? April, 1959.. Just to show you how busy was Kishore that time, here is a list of movies he released in 1958:
    >Ragini
    > Kabhi andhera kabhi ujala
    >Chandan
    > Chalti ka naam gaadi
    > Dilli ka thug
    > Luko churi

    Do you know what is releasing 6 movies again in a claenbder year, Bhagchandani ji? You never know, you have never seen a film making.. That too “CKNG” and “Luko churi” being Kishore’s own productions.. Do you think he was always there to oblige the MDs to come for recording on time for a song? Some MDs were understanding (C Ramchandra, Salil, Hemant Kumar, SD, Anil Biswas, Madan Mohan etc.), some were not, that is their choice..

    3. Please dont try to mould history, your own weakness and biasedness would get more magnified in that.. Stop this, for your own betterment. By the way, another trivia for you. During the making of Baghi Shehzada, Kishore was in Shimla for shooting. And a song recording had to take place.. He was not there and the director called him.. Kishore said “I cannot come, do it with Rafi sahab”( due to the fact that Rafi had already done that job previously also).. And that resulted into ” Main is massom chehre ko”… A great song for Kishore by Rafi.. Read and learn Bhagchandani ji, ,, Kishore had a great respect for Rafi which has always been moulded and represented by Rafi fanatics in their own convenient way…

    “Pyar Deewana” was released in 1972.. Have you seen the movie, Bhagchandani ji? or seen the video of “Aapni aadat hai”? See it, carefully.. Compare the Mumtaz there with Mumtaz in “Apna Desh” or ” Dushman” released in that same time.. She looks five -six years younger.. The movie was completed by 1967 but was not released as it was small budget and producers did not have any hope of the movie with a low profile actress(Mumtaz was still not at her best that time) and a flop hero(Kishore was undergoing his worst phase in career then).. It was released after six years, as by then, both the people(Kishore and Mumtaz) had made a turnaround in their career and were at the top..

    I wonder, what kind of analysis you have made of film history, Bhagchandaniji?? Very conveniently twisted and turned to Rafi sahab’s way it seems?

    And I have never ever talked on voice purity, resonance, breath control, lowest cotaves, enactment of songs, voice modulation, experimentaion, falsetto voice creation as yet, Bhagchandani ji, and you have already jumped into so much of nonsense? God knows, what would happen if you come face to face to compare an apple with an apple.

    Take care, sir..

    Good Bye.

    Vitthal ji: I know yu like Rafi sahab more than Kishoreji.. I appreciate every bit of it. You are not the only one. Prabhanjan and Manish also holds the same view and they are very close to me, as we share a common sense- to see music in a braoder way. After that, it hardly matters whom we see better- Rafi, kishore, talat, hemant or mahendra kapoor- very immaterial. By the way, dont speak too much of binu nair, he leaves his frustration of kishore kumar fans on kishore kumar only!!! What a gem of a man he is! the best leader that ever was…

  14. 114
    arghya Says:

    Vithalji..

    Satyansh is not a Bengali.. He stays in US and is one of my very close friends.. We spend hours together discussing music over phone.. Although he had strictly instructed me not to reveal this to anyone, I cannot stop here quoting that he is a family member of one of the most legendary lyricist of the golden era of film music.. Only because, he is a fan of Manna and Kishore, he was treated severly at the Rafi site by some wild goose..

    And he is one of the most balanced music analysists I have evr come across.. Of course, there are more people like Srivasji, Surajitji, Manish just to name a few..

  15. 115
    Vitthal Says:

    Arghya ji,

    I cannot stop but appreciate your views in these forums. Keep it up Arghya ji. Thanks for enlightening me on satyansh ji – yes he was a very balanced analyst and the way he was treated at rafi forum is indeed pitiable – such a man with such music knowledge was asked to leave by some rafi fans………… Even Mr. Khan, Mr Surajit Bose etc. were also not spared. I could get your disguised comment on Binu nair – great. Arghya ji, really as a rafi fan, I have immense respect for kishore fans like you, surajit bose and others who respect rafi ji as well. Though as a telugu man, I admire ghantasala more and then rafi, I really enjoy kishore ji’s songs equally well. It is a good fortune to discuss about music with nice people like you Arghya ji. All established playback singers have given us beautiful songs for us to enjoy & by successive generations as well and the impact they have left can be hardly measured.

    By the way, sorry for my catching on Mr. Satyansh as a bengali person, as I thought from his discussions that he might be a bengali person with really good music knowledge – thanks for the correction. We really miss him these days in these forums.

    Thanks.

  16. 116
    arghya Says:

    Vithalji.
    Thanks to your post 115, sir. Yes, all the singers in those golden era were awesome in their own way, and we are privileaged to hear them in our lifetime.
    By the way, one interesting thing would like to share. One of the regular members here, Kishorefan, had posted a response in http://www.mohdrafi.com. Although I also differ to what he said( Rafi is not so popular amongst the youth today), I think people are entitled to express their views and if one contradicts, he or she should come out with fatcs and figures or technicality rather than foul mouthing. And again, not surprisingly, barring hardly one or two members there, all the Rafians started abusing and foul mouthing not only Kishore fan but also Kishore Kumar himself! Things like his getting converted to Islam was also brought up! What a despicable response.. One member said “Kishore fans have khujli to come to rafi site”.. Well, if that is the case, then Vithalji, this khujli is nowhere less amongst those violent Rafi fanatics also, and it is proved very well here, in this discussion-time and time again- and we all have seen. But, even my emotional friend Paramjeet, has also never foul mouthed any legend to show Kishore up! A spirit I have always admired..

    Anyways, people dont change and not to expect too much from them also. Vithalji, may I ask you, where do you find Rafi sahab better than Kishore Kumar in playback singing, per se? This is only a musical discussion and let us ignore the outside invasion for the time being. I am asking this because, those who love Ghantashala, tend to find Kishore’s voice more towards textbook.. I heard “Siva Sankari” and I was carried away by the vocal accomplishment by the maestro.. That too, as Srivasji said once, recorded in one take.. I think this is superhuman.. I have not heard Ghantashalaji thoroughly, so, cannnot make any generalized statement, but, Siva Sankari, is a great achievement, perhaps the greatest in Filmy classical numbers.

    Also, what is your take on Manna De and his classical renditions in Hindi film music?

  17. 117
    Rafifan Says:

    Vitthal ji and Arghya ji,

    Your comments on Binu Nair, the leader of rafi foundation, are a bit misleading. Binu Nair has great respect for all music legends. You might not have read properly comments by Binu Nair. Refer post no. 497 in True voice col. of Rafi forum, where in Binu Nair calls ghantasala as the greatest talent the country has produced and requests in a subsequent post to write more articles on ghantasala. This shows the respect of Binu Nair which he had for ghantasala and I have ever seen binu ji continuing his respect for the great legend. Regarding Kishore fans, it was the same response viz., ‘ tit for tat’ given to them and nothing more than in personal capacity to any of the kishore fans. Binu ji had indeed said kishore was a good singer in many posts. It was the kishore fans who continuously start singing praises for kishore in rafi forum and they received the ‘tit for tat’ response and nothing beyond that. Otherwise no rafi fan has ever commented on any singers. Even in kishore forum, hardly rafi fans make any comments unless provoked by some biased kishore fans (not all). The posts of Mr. Bhagchandani are also in similar lines and not aimed at anybody. And lastly, kishore fans know very well that it is a fact that Mohd. Rafi is the most popular and admired singer and he is even praised by ‘ critics ‘.

  18. 118
    paramjeet Says:

    Lo aa gaye aur bhi khujli wale.. Is dafa khujli us mahan gayak ke liye nahi bal ki unke ek namakul bhakt ke liye..

    Rafifan sahab,
    Janab, kuchh din pehle arghyaji rafi forum mein ek aadmi se uske abusive remarks pe kuchh sawalat kare the jisme rafi sahab ya kishoreda ki koi zikr nahi thi.. To aapke adarniya, parampujya Nair sahab(Nair or Nayyar, bhai dono hi zabardast the aur hai) kishoreji ka gala(hoarse voice), panchamji ke dhun(trash music) aur salilda ke khun ka ilzam(murder) wali baat leke kyun baith gaye the?? Kya woh bhi provocation tha?? Agar tha to usme:
    1. Rafi sahab ki koi zikr nahi thi.
    2. Na to rafi sahab ke fans ko gali di. Sirf ek aadmi se uske ghatiya comments ke peechhe ka authenticity poochha gaya. To aap logo ne kishore,pancham,lata,asha,salil,anilda,,jagjit singh,gulzar sabki chhutti kar di… Jab ki wahan pe koi rafi kishore wali baat hi nahi thi..

    yehi culture hai aapke aur binu nair ji ke?? Wahan pe 2-3 achhe rafi sadasya ne binu ki baat ka alochana bhi kari thi.. Woh bhi pad lijiyega takalluf uthaake…

    Seedhi baatin ka seedhi jawab kabhi mila nahi aap logon se siva bakwas ke.. Bhagchandaniji ko yahan neuta deke nahi bulaya kisine, na to unke rafi sahab ko kisine bura bhala bola jo ki woh gussa hoke aa gaye.. Woh bhi yahan pe isi liye aaye, bin bulaye mehmaan ki tarah, taki do char ut patang baatein aur kar ke jaye yahan pe faltu controversy ke liye.

  19. 119
    arghya Says:

    Paramjit.

    I read your post carefully. You are right about your observations on certain people. As I have said, you cannot change people, so let us not take this issue further. They are also music fans, whomsover, has ended up admiring the music of those golden era are indeed music fans, even if biased for certain singers, it should not matter. I have very well said in many posts, with a touch of subjectivity, it can very well be established any one between kishore, rafi or manna, to be the best playback singer in the hindi films. Please, let us not expand this arguement more.

    Binu Nair is “tit for tat” but if the “tit” is for Rafi fans his “tat” goes directly to kishore kumar or pancham or other legendary associates of kishoreji and not always to kishore fans(whom it should have been)- that is his choice.. Let him live in his frustration, brother, we have many more asignments to achive as I have already shared with you..

    As long as someone criticizes Kishore with good intention, I am never against him/her.. I do find it surprising that even after I had admitted Rafi singing better devotional songs than Kishore, some people like Kapil, Haldar, Bhagchandani were even against publishing such article!! That means supressing a fact, which is quite queer! Would you suppress a fact that Mukesh had some 5-6 comedy songs under his belt (as correctly mentioned by Prabhanjan- another true Rafi fan) or Talat did sing some western songs or Mahendra Kapoor also has comedy songs or Rafi had some yoodelling songs???Younger generation should know what is a complete artistic genius of Kishore and that is all.. There would be objecters but there are more admirers, Paramjit, as you can clearly see..

    Let us not take this issue any further.. Dont worry.. You might have also noticed “bang on questions” or “technical queries” are politically avoided by them.. They are afraid.. You are not then why to bother?

    I would also request my friend Kishorefan not to visit that neighbourhood hooliguns too often.. I had visited there with some queries(nothing related to Rafi or Kishore), when they started getting exposed, they took a true ridiculous turn- a shameful one indeed!

    By the way, Paramjit, we discussed only on a genre of Kishoreda songs and so much jealousy, what about discussing a song or a line of a song into a full fledged article there in that neighbourhood community? Isn’t it hillarious??

    Lastly, my article on Kishoreda and Salil Chowdhury has been selected to be translated into a regional magazine in Assam on their fim and music section.. It is the love you spread for which people admire you and not hatred. This last line is for those hooliguns.

    Thanks.

  20. 120
    Vitthal Says:

    Arghya ji – 116

    Thanks for your response and your comments. As you said, Mr. Srivas ji and lalit ji were quoting the nada purity and in this regard I fully agree with them that kishore had a good nada purity. I am in agreement with Srivas ji that kishore without being much technically trained had that nada purity and a great voice which made his singing quite attractive. But to me personally (I may sound subjective) rafi has attraction in terms of melody than kishore. Other than melody factor both are attractive. This is my personal feeling and I have considered this taking into account as a whole i.e many rafi songs. I believe in few songs of kishore even rafi might not have sounded attractive like kishore, that is why my liking and preference of rafi is based as a whole and this is my personal feeling. I further agree with kishore fan ji here that as he said if kishore, given the texture of his voice, if was technically trained he would have been close to ghantasala ji, who had the combination of perfect nada purity, melody as well as advanced classical training. This technical degree of qualification plus his unique voice puts a greater rating on ghantasala. Barring that as Mr Srivas ji had said that S Janaki, southern singer equally respects kishore on par with ghantasala and rafi. All were established singers.Thanks for your views on ghantasala and his song siva sankari – you are perfectly correct in your statements on siva sankari. If you permit and are interested, subject to your permission I will post some interesting melody songs of ghantasala for your esteemed views.

    Manna dey is technically trained, but in my personal view, technically he is correct and fine. But his range does not contain the depth and strength in classical songs which ghantasala had. I have heard few of classical songs of manna such as sur na saje, jhanak jhanak etc. and found him purely technical & classical rather than having good filmy voice which rafi and ghantasala had. Even kishore had a good nada purity than manna dey and further kishore, though not technically trained like manna, sounds more attractive than manna dey. Kishore too had good filmy voice than manna dey. These are my personal views and am open to correction from esteemed music lovers like you arghya ji.

  21. 121
    arghya Says:

    Vitthalji

    I can understand your viewpoints. But one request, please dont call me “esteemed music lover”, please.. I do not deserve such title.. Honestly.. Rather call me friend, a title which superceeds all. Thanks, sir.

    It would be a pleasure if you can share some Ghantashala ji songs here for our discussion. It would be great to explore. I am also planning to upload all the 28 Tagore songs recorded by Kishoreda, I know language barrier would be there, but I think it wont be an obstacle to grasp the “bhava”, “rasa” and the “melody” in those songs.. Also, upto early 80s, I find Kishore songs very much melodious(no doubt some of them are unconventionally melodious, but for them I give him extra marks for being experimental,though:) ), it is only from 83-84 onwards till his death, his songs lost charm due to bad music.. Although he did give a Sagar or a Sharabi but one can feel him having lost the charm to sing filmy songs..

    Keep it up. Awaiting your uploading of Ghantashala songs.

    regards.
    Arghya.

  22. 122
    Vitthal Says:

    Arghya ji,

    Thanks for your simple & nice post. I will be rather interested to participate along with you in hearing kishore kumar songs which you had mentioned. Yesterday, i was listening to some songs of kishore from jewel thief, dream girl and others such as kora kagaz tha ye man mera, yeh shaam mastani etc. and felt very happy on hearing this songs. Really, these days we miss such stype of nice songs. For sure, such nice songs cannot be heard in the coming days as the scenario has changed totally today in the industry – pity indeed.

    Regarding ghantasala, here are few of his melodious numbers – some of the links are not opening – In such case, I request you to kindly type the address given here in your URL and it will directly open the song. As far as possible, I had tried to upload quality videos.

    1. Melodious duet Song by Ghantasala and suseela ( Music direction S Rajeswara Rao acclaimed as the greatest southern music director)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEQHfH812fs

    2. Song by ghantasala and jikki (music direction by Adi narayana rao – who composed kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya in hindi suvarna sundari)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwW5zCD_lZQ

    3. Jayasimha Movie Audio Songs – Chitramala Telugu Songs, Hindi Songs (Pl. type this in google and after typing it, link opens & please hear the second song – eenati ee hayi) – A great melodious song. (I request you to pl. definitely hear this number)

    4.Rasika Raja Thaguvaramu Kaamaa

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Zi5Cxu4Gc

    Type the address in URL it will directly open.

    (This is another classical masterpiece – music directed by Mr. Pendyala Nageshwara Rao who composed/music directed Siva Sankari Song)

    5. A pleasant romantic melodious duet directly hitting at heart (music direction by ghantasala)

    NTR, Savithri – Himagiri Sogasulu

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQVfT93lcIs

    (Type the address in URL it will directly open)

    6. ANR- Naa Hrudayamlo Nidurinche Cheli (beautiful melody solo of ghantasala – I think this is in bengali by Hemant kumar)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLt8TQppsw0

    (Type the address in URL it will directly open)

    7. A great emotional song by ghantasala

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qRVB4_d_A

    (this was very appreciated by Mr. Manish kumar in rafi forum)

    I wait for your views dear friend Arghya ji.

  23. 123
    Vitthal Says:

    Arghya ji,

    The links are directly opening. I think you need not type the address in URL.

  24. 124
    paramjeet Says:

    arghya ji,

    As you have said, log badalte nahi. You are very honst and dignified in your posts. kash aapse woh log bhi kuchh sikhte, dusron ko izzat deke hi ek insaan izzatdaar banta hai.

    Vitthalji, meri aapse guzarish hai kuchh guruji ke gaane sunke unke upar apne comments dene ki liye.. Main youtube dekhta nahi hoon to mujhe links ka pata nahi, aap krupaya youtube mein dekh lijiyega search karke shayad mil jaye:
    . Husn bhi hai udaas udaas
    . Jagmag jagmag karta nikla chand poonam ka pyara
    . koi humdum na raha
    . Man kare yaad woh din
    . Payalwali dekhna
    . Chanda ki kirano se lipati hawayein
    . Hum log hai aese deewane duniya ko jhukakar
    . Aa mohabbat ki basti basayenge hum
    . Hawaon pe likh do hawaon ke naam
    . Panthi hoon main us path ka

    Mujhe poora vishwas hai, Vitthalji, yeh chand geet sun ne ke baad aap ek naya kishore kumar ko payenge. Bahut dino baad ek achha Rafi bhakt mila hai yahan par, Vitthalji ko mera pranam.

  25. 125
    arghya Says:

    Vithalji, at the outset thanks so much for the songs.
    I can’t express my feelings after listening to the song Rasika Raja(song No. 4)… Sir, I am feeling short of words.. Taan which he takes ranging from the lowest octave to the highest one is breathtaking.. I dont wear hats otherwise I would have put that in front of Ghantashalaji’s photograph.. It is not only a song, Vithalji, it is a musical extravaganza..

    Song No.6 is another gem.. You are right, it is also there in Bengali.. But not by Hemanta, but by Shyamal Mitra, who composed and sang this song in the movie Sagarika(1958).. When was the Telugu song made Vithalji? I dont know who is the original composer and all that, but the first thing I am going to do is to put this song in our community so that people know how Ghantashala had excelled the Bengalis in their own game..And I mean it..

    Song no. 7 did not appeal me much.. The actor on the screen was highly melodramatic(no offense to him,just expressing my views) so is the emoting of the song.. Must have been an instruction from the MD.. Rafi fans would definitely love it, as the pitch and the emoting of the song would remind them of “O duniya ke rakhwale”. Again, it is actually a compliment to Ghantashalaji, as he can be equally appealing to both Kishore fans as well as Rafi fans..

    Rest all the songs are very lovely.. Song No. 1 I would remember for a long long time.. Really melodious one..

    Thanks so much for all of them.

    Also, please listen to the songs Paramjit has given, rightly it would open a new window to you.. I am trying to give the links of some of the songs here:

    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDPb2ShfjHo
    Just see his control on the lowest octave. And switching to highest octave so spontaneously.

    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO4P4o1Fx-U&feature=PlayList&p=4F326D5C3FBA9021&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=14

    A masterpiece. See how comfortably Kishore puts into Talat shoes.

    3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DnX-T9BQZ4&feature=PlayList&p=4F326D5C3FBA9021&index=17

    One of the earliest gems.. Magnificient song..

    4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM-cQB2SyFs

    The Tagore song from a Satyajit Ray movie..Well, Vitthalji, there were people like Satyajit Ray amongst “critics” who claimed Kishore to be the best,, and not wrongly, I suppose.

    5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvY-FAZ_-fQ

    One of my all time favourites.. Composed and sung by Kishore only!

    6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AUdArL30gY

    A superb variation in Bhairavi.. A Bengali masterpiece

    7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU-OaV1vpOQ

    The best song of Kishoreji in the 80s. Thanks to Salilda who seemed to have composed the song only keeping kishoreji in mind!

    8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qwuc-pI1ws

    People talk so much about KK-SD, but hardly anyone mentions about this song, Vithalji.. Ask me and I would say it is a better vocal accomplishment than Dukhi Man Mere from the same movie.. Just see the brath control of Kishore

    9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ITslFEtHc

    I think your complaint on melody would be gone after this song Vithalji.. Another sublime song composed by Hemant Kumar and sang by Kishore

    10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGS-INWQjwQ

    This song was recorded and later removed by Kishore from the movie “Door Gagan ki Chhaon Mein” because he thought this song was too serious.. Just listen, Vitthalji, an orchestraless masterpiece.. This is what I call experimentation!

  26. 126
    kishorefan Says:

    Arghya ji,

    Thanks for your valuable advise sir. I have stopped visiting rafi forum site, as the discussions are taking unpleasant turns. Sir, I am waiting for the kishore ji songs to be uploaded by you.

    Vitthal ji,

    Thank you very much for your compliments on Kishore kumar ji. Very few balanced rafi fans like you could correctly catch the greatness of kishore kumar. Yeh shaam mastani is really a pleasant evening song which creates a cool effect in one’s mind. As my friend arghya ji states that kishore voice was great until early eighties when all sort of diluted music started pouring in and we all know that after kishore the melody of hindi music stopped.

    On ghantasala ji. (I have heard this magnificient maestro earlier – courtesy rafi forum)

    Thanks for posting ghantasala ji songs. As surajit bose ji and others have said, It is beyond doubt that he is certainly ahead & greater than rafi in terms of melody as well as technical and bhava presentation. Classical masterpieces, anyhow none can surpass ghantasala ji , it is quite clear. I have carefully heard all the 7 songs listed by you in your post 122. The taans which ghantasala ji executes in his style and speed, I think hardly any singer can come nearer. It is a gifted talent. The Jayasimha song – eenati ee hayi – what a melodious number with taans executed nicely wiith speed. Similar was rasika raja – classical masterpiece. The first song link by ghantasala and suseela (chelikadu) – velvet melody of ghantasala is example in this song. Really, he has a magnificient voice.

    The Bengali song of Na hrudayamlo— I have heard ( I am not clear who sang it whether hemant or manna) but the telugu one by ghantasala is greater than the bengali one in terms of melody. Thanks for the great songs of the great maestro. It is a big surprise how such a great singer did not sing even a single hindi song. As already stated by surajit bose ji earlier, ghantasala ji easily surpasses all his female counterparts as well in his songs.

    I had remarked earlier, Kishore if well technically trained, given the texture of his voice, would have been nearer to ghantasala, sure to be.

    Rafi fans specially one Mr. MYK says in rafi forum that rafi is classically great. But I have not heard a single song of rafi with taans execution with speed & also in terms of length of taans at least to the half of ghantasala ji’s executions. I do not know why rafi fans such as MYK simply make fake comments on rafi ji diluting facts.

    Vitthal ji, – Mr. Satyansh had stated in rafi forum ( myself and satyansh ji participated in true voice forum once with rafi fans) that ghantasala ji’ s genius is much ahead of rafi, and I am going to leave rafi site as a ghantasala fan – This was the main reason, he was asked to leave by rafi fans specially Mr. Haldar and Mr. Binu Nair, because they did not want to digest the truths. That is about so called great rafi fans.

  27. 127
    kishorefan Says:

    Vitthal ji,

    contd.. to previous post of mine,

    Last line may please be read as that is about so called some biased rafi fans. In fact rafi fans like you sir, speak out the truths. Pranams vitthal ji.

  28. 128
    myk Says:

    Kishorefan,

    Thanks for mentioning me, I didn’t know my comments affected you so many months later.

    Pandit Gyan Prakash Ghosh, the doyen of Hindustani classical music rated Rafi as the best exponent of classical music. Countless classical greats including the likes of Yesudas, Naushad, Illayaraaja, Manna Dey, Shankar (of S-J) etc., rate/rated Rafi as the best. Are you more qualified than them to pass judgement on Rafi’s classical abilities (or abilities in general ?). Please let me know.

    One example, check out “Naache man mora” from SDB’s MSTA, where Rafi executes that fast-paced taans to perfection. There are many other songs, where Rafi has done full justice to songs of a classical nature. IMO Ghantasala was strong in classical music, but aside from that I would not rate him as a complete singer. Here is where Rafi was the ‘all-rounder’. I have yet to come across anyone with songs of such a high level and repertoire. I also don’t find Ghantasala as melodious as others. Kishore, although not strong on the classical front, could mesmerize you with his emotional renditions such as “Woh shaam kuch ajeeb thi”, “Diye jalte hain phool khilte hai”, “Diwana leke aaya hai” etc.

    Rafi-saab is beyond compare, and that is the view held by not only many music personalities, but countless of his fans. I don’t see the need to compare any great singers, as they were all unique in one way or the other. Please learn to respect, and not critisise views by others.

    I don’t think this is the right place for such a discussion as it is a Kishore “only” forum. Hence, there will be no more posts from me on this subject. If you want, we can take it offline, or to another forum. I only wrote something because you mentioned me in your post. Btw, I have not made any fake comments anywhere (unlike some people), if you think I have, then you can continue to think something that is false.

  29. 129
    arghya Says:

    I could remember once in a rapid fire round in Sony, Mr. Rahat Fateh Ali Khan was asked “Rafi or Kishore”? and he said “Kishore”. Asha Bhosle was recently asked in Star Ananda again a rapid fire round the same question and Ashaji again replied as “Kishore”. I think both of them are also well accompolished in music. Lataji one her 80th birthday recently said Kishore as her best co singer ever. Shankar Mahadevan once said “No. 1 to 10 is Kishore”. Pandit Bhimsen Joshi and Prince Rama Verma- one the god of classical vocalists and the other a master in Carnataci music- still find Kishore as the best singer. The only Oscar winning director from India, Satyajit Ray maintained till his very last days as Kishore to be the best voice in India. Javed Akhtar and Jagjit Singh, everytime they are asked, their reply is Kishore Kumar. And these all are documented and reported facts.

    See, I am not pitching Kishore here or promoting trivias. My point is let us not rahter bring trivia. If we are discussing music, let us all keep it at that. All the legends have/had their choices and they make the choice based on their own taste, preference, likes, dislikes etc. They are all respected figure and let us only understand what the crux of their story is rather then going in a trivia fight, which I simply detest..

    My point is to show that no one is beyond comparison.. We fans always think and have that right to think that our legend is a messiah(and rightly so as he has made his fans’ lives so beautiful with his voice), but to say he is beyond comparison, or he is a sun and rest are candles or putting some trivias try to yell in front of the world about his supremacy sound very non-musical.

    Thanks friends and wish good health to all.

  30. 130
    J.K. Bhagchandani Says:

    Thanks MYK for the fitting rejoinder to Kishorefan. I would like to add couple of more songs: ‘Akhiyan sang akhiyaan lagi…’ from the film ‘Bada Aadmi’ and ‘Jhanana jhanan jhanana baaje…..’ from the film ‘Sangeet Samrat Tansen’ .. etc. where Rafi has done brilliantly in fast paced taan.
    But then you are right that this is a ‘Kishore only forum’. Others are treated as ‘uninvited’. If you retalliate for the non-sense that some (only a handful… not all) Kishore fans talk.. you are dubbed as ‘wild goose’ or ‘eternal fool’. If they retalliate on some similar comment by a Rafi fan … they are just ’emotional’. What a coherence!!!!

  31. 131
    arghya Says:

    Bhagchandaniji I think, yes, this is a Kishore forum. And I dont think it is Kishore only.. Otherwise we would not have been discussing so much of Ghantashalaji songs here,,

    I can imagine the response from people like Binu and Haldar in your home ground if someone pastes Ghantashala or Kishore songs there or hails them..

    Be happy Paramjit has never bad mouthed any legend.. Or if you have found bad mouthing any legend( which I severely doubt)- I hope you know what is a legend? or in your textbook Binu Nair and RD Burman are equal legends?- you can settle that personally with him. In my career, I have seen only one place where legends are bad mouthed like murderer, jealous, chameleon, drunkard and drugged(for RDB), politicially corrupts etc.- and that place is http://www.mohdrafi.com.

  32. 132
    arghya Says:

    Also, read the posts of Paramjit and Kishorefan.. Both giving pranams to Vithalji, who is a Rafi fan and maintains Rafi was better than Kishore..

    What treatment you give to people in http://www.mohdrafi.com who says Kishore better than Rafi?

  33. 133
    Vitthal Says:

    Arghya ji,

    Sorry for the delay. I have been busy in some work. I will definitely come back to you on kishore songs by tomorrow, because it requires hearing by concentration without any disturbance. By the way when yesterday I was listening to another great song of kishore gaata rahe mera dil, from film guide. A nice song. Thanks for your compliments on ghantasala – you have correctly analysed the facts as a true music lover.

    Mr. MYK

    This is a pure kishore forum. But I am forced to reply to you since I felt your comments are written without complete knowledge. Pl. do not take offence & Let me just correct you notions. I am open to correction, if I am wrong anywhere, but I believe you will be honest in taking my post. I agree that rafi is surely great. No doubt about it. In fact i too am a rafi fan. We had met earlier too. I will put only one point. If you know that is fine, otherwise you can check with any musician in India that Ghantasala mastered/was trained in much more genres in music than rafi (to say including hindusthani music). So your quote saying that ghantasala did not sing genres equivalent to rafi is illogical and baseless, rather it lacks sense. When ghantasala mastered more genres than rafi, it is clear he sang more genres than rafi. (you might not have heard all the genres of ghantasala ) This anybody will agree. Rafi did not know carnatic music, but ghantasala knew hindusthani music as well. It is hence not fair to make comparison of rafi with a musical wizard like ghantasala. Just check up with SPB or jesudas or illayaraja about ghantasala’s knowledge in music vs. rafi. It will be like a comparison of a cat with tiger. Rafi’s knowledge before ghantasala’s knowledge in music is only 30% in my view. Regarding melody check the first song of ghantasala posted in my previous posts, you will know what melody is. Both had magnificient voices. You may have your own personal views, but what I have stated are the views of established greats including Mohd. rafi. In fact, I wish to tell you that it was rafi who indeed praised many times ghantasala as greater, and ghantasala (with whom my relative had a discussion for 8 hours in 1972) did not mention rafi even once. You say many singers praised rafi, but what about the singer who rafi praised, he did not praise rafi. Rafi had met ghantasala at his house for tips for singing telugu songs, are you aware of this. Ghantasala did not meet rafi at any time, there was no necessity for him also by virtue of his stature. . I am also a rafi fan, In fact I prefer him over kishore, this point I had made many times clear. Just show me a song of rafi of classical nature wherein he renders as effectively as ghantasala does. Rafi had rendered good classical songs but they are limited in range and depth as compared to ghantasala’s range and depth. Ghantasala had rendered the greatest ever classical song siva sankari in only one take. Ghantasala does not shout and even sings without opening the mouth much wider. He does not move even an inch while singing a song, however tough it may be. He had tall the qualities of a perfect gayaka. YOu have not heard padyams of ghantasala, it is a gift. It is a different exalted genre in music. Even trained classical musicians cannot sing padyams effectively. (SPB and jesudas too do not know how a padyam is to be sung effectively – check 100’s of padymas of ghantasala with hardly 15 to 20 padyams of spb in his entire career or others in telugu) ) . In my view, sir, comparison on musical terms cannot be made for ghantasala vs. rafi. Regarding the comments made by the singers you mentioned, they praised rafi only when they were asked about rafi. They did not advertise on their own that rafi was great. If you ask same question about ghantasala with spb or yesudas same reply will come and this has been the case in many interviews with spb and others. I am sure if naushad or the artists which you mentioned would have heard ghantasala, they would surely have changed the tunes vs. rafi. Just put classical songs of ghantasala before established hindusthani musicians and you will see the result vs. rafi. This has been proved in many cases (including in many forums) – when ghantasala was introduced vs. rafi,. You will also find the same effect. Just try it. If you have the courage pl. do it and come back honestly and without prejudice.

    Moreover, whatever one’s preferences may be, we should admire great qualities in any singer. For instance, kishore has a good nada purity, he was not classically trained, but he sounds great as far as musical notes are concerned. I have seen classical musicians like Sri vas ji, Lalit ji, stating that you cannot find any flaw in any of the renditions of kishore. What do you say about it. If you criticise classical musicians also, then no body can say anything. Kishore fans never criticised rafi or his renditions, but only used to state that kishore rendered in this way or that and so it is great. That is fine. Your views are only : rafi was praised by many so he is great. Why dont you point out the faults and defects for e.g in ghantasala songs so that rafi can be proved to be great. Unless you point out what is the fault in a rendition, you cannot conclude rafi is great. In what way (in musical terms) you consider rafi greater than ghantasala is not clearer, because you never mention the points of greatness. Simply saying so and so singer has praised rafi does not prove the facts. (ghantasala is acknowledged as the perfect and complete singer by all musicians and singers including rafi & lata, you can personally check this fact- Just have a chat with lata mangeshkar you will know.) What about established classical musicians view on ghantasala – have you checked. YOu will know if you check. Balamuralikrishna, the greatest in indian classical singing and semmangudi ,another greatest classical musician in India (whom ghantasala challenged) concluded ghantasala as a perfect and complete singer, the calibre of whom cannot be found. I hope you might have heard few songs of ghantasala and drawing conclusions. It will be like somebody commenting on rafi himself by hearing few of rafi songs and saying rafi is not that great, whereas a person who had heard rafi completely knows what the great rafi is. It need not be pointed out. I do not want to prove who is great or compare legends, but I just wanted to put across the facts on ghantasala which balanced music lovers would surely appreciate. Anyhow this comparison between legends really looks absurd, I had put this only to drive away incomplete views.

    Final conclusion will be in popularity rafi as well as kishore too are surely more popular than ghantasala but as a complete musician ghantasala is clearly ahead of rafi & others. There is no doubt about it.

  34. 134
    Vitthal Says:

    Contd… to my previous post Mr. MYK

    I quote the view of S Janaki, the great southern playback singer in this regard i.e. Ghantasala, Mohd. Rafi and Kishore kumar are the everlasting singers in Indian playback singing. Their effect will continue for many more generations to come. This is correct. What do you say.

  35. 135
    Vitthal Says:

    Arghya ji, Paramjeet ji and other kishore fans,

    Please excuse for my previous lengthy post. In fact, i could not tolerate the disturbance/interference by some people on our lively sharing music discussion on legends. The post was aimed at specific individual, you all will appreciate.

  36. 136
    paramjeet Says:

    Vitthal sahab,
    Sir, bilkul chinta mat karein aap.. Aese parni aate rehte hai yahan pe aur hamare Arghyaji ne unke last post pe sahi jawab de diye hai unko.. Agar yeh ‘only kishore’ hota Vitthalji to hum sab log nilke Ghantashalaji ki baat nahi karte..

    Waise ek mitra hone ke naate poochh raha hoon Vitthalji aap se, aap bhi Rafi bhakt hai, doosre gayakon ke gungaan us forum mein karne se kaisa response milta hai????

    Thoda batayein humein bhi…

  37. 137
    arghya Says:

    Vitthalji. Post 135.

    Sir, we have seen enough of them. They are short of controversies in their own ground. The Kishore chapter, Sonu Nigam chapter, RD chapter, Salil chapter, Lata chapter, Asha chapter, Anil Biswas chapter etc. etc. etc. are long closed and their long dragged absolute eulogies of genres, songs or even a line of a song seem nowadays repeatitive.. So, please excuse them.. They are doing their duties perhaps by again calling RDB a drunkard and drug addict(what a shameful act really), let us do ours by sprading awareness of goodand balanced view on music…

  38. 138
    Vitthal Says:

    Arghya ji / paramjeet ji,

    I have heard the kishore songs. He is a nice singer. I accept that Surely, my knowedge on kishore ji is limited. The old song perhaps I believe one of his early songs jag mag jag mag is a nice song with good attraction & melody , though some nasal effect is there. Husn bhi hay Udas Udas is another song with nice attraction, shifting of notes is attractive. The song from jhumroo koi hamdam really was another nice song – good clarity. This song itself proves kishore as a special singer. Remaining all songs too were interesting to hear. Kishore, really surprising, without being much classically trained, could render songs with nice attraction – it is really a gift from god itself.

    Arghya ji, in my honest opinion, in 60’s the compositions were such so as to explore rafi ji’s potential – the music directors in that period composed more songs suiting rafi’s range so that rafi’s attraction of 60’s is stated beyond comparison. Similarly, sure from 70’s the compositions were mostly suited for kishore kumar’s style and kishore talent was fully utilised by the music directors. I am aware kishore had enveloped rafi in popularity in 70’s and i was given to understand that it was more even than that enjoyed by rafi in 60’s whose contribution of 60’s is truly beyond comparison. It is for sure that kishore and rafi both were great singers in their own ways and hindi cinema is really fortunate for having had 2 great singers, whose contribution perhaps cannot be matched in future.

    Kishore fan ji/Paramjeet ji,

    My respects for both of you. Thanks for your compliments on my views as well as of ghantasala. Many rafi fans have acknowledged ghantasala to be greater than rafi in rafi forum itself (with the exception of very few of rafi fans – you can know who are they and in my view they had done that only out of jealousy with a thought that no singer, even though great and qualified,should overtake rafi, and hence by hook and crook, they managed to hold on to rafi) and those rafi fans themselves (who supported ghantasala) had to bear the brunt there and were accused as false rafi fans (see true voice col.) I was also one among them.

    As compared to rafi fans in general, as a rafi fan myself, I have to admit that this kishore foum is more dignified than rafi forum not because I have been supported, but for the Kishore fans respect for all true legends of music. This is indeed great. Keep it up my friends.

    Thanks and regards to all. May god bless all.

  39. 139
    myk Says:

    Vitthal-ji,

    Thanks, If you feel my posts are written without knowledge, I feel the same about you too. I don’t need to prove my strong musical knowledge to anyone, I have written many a times on another forum about various subjects. I did not want to respond again here, however I will just write to you. I have written on this subject many a times, and do not want to repeat anything again (as this is not the place). Most of your views are subjective, not logical (and baseless as you used the term), and do not prove anything. Therefore, its pointless to respond to them and go through the same thing over and over again.

    Just one point, I am not sure how Ghantasala mastered as many genres as Rafi did ?. Ghantasala’s domain was classical music, it is amusing to think he was also a master at rock n roll, pop, jazz, ghazals, qawwali, comedy etc. and in areas where he was not as accomplished. He was excellent in the classical field which was his domain as well as in bhajans, sentimental/romantic songs. Rafi mastered a variety of genres from western to traditional and everything in between. I have heard a lot of Ghantasala, and I would never rate him as good as Rafi. I also disagree that Rafi’s knowledge of music is 30% of Ghantasala, in fact Rafi was one of the most musically knowledgeable people in the industry. SPB has maintained all along that Rafi is the greatest. I have had discussions with him personally and his view is that Rafi is the ultimate. In his spare time, him and his wife listen to Rafi songs. Ilayaraaja is another who rates Rafi as the greatest, and so do many other southern personalities (leave aside northern and global personalities).

    Rafi’s greatness or any other singer’s greatness does not need any proof. What is insteresting is that Rafi is the benchmark to which all singers are compared (including recently Ghantasala), that should say enough about Rafi’s greatness (besides many other facts). Whatever Lalit and Srivas (or anyone) may say about Kishore are their own views and they can stick to them.

    You can also stick to your views and I will stick to mine (even though you are a Rafi fan, however I suspect you’re more a fan of Ghantasala). Why not spend time writing about the strong points of Kishore on this forum, rather than discussing something which is of no use.

  40. 140
    arghya Says:

    Myk brother.

    I respect your views and appreciate them also. Although, your last post was not for me , still, if you dont mind I would just like to put a point there. It is not a contradictory view but just an observation.
    //What is insteresting is that Rafi is the benchmark to which all singers are compared (including recently Ghantasala)//
    I think, Myk, it is more because Rafi fans project him to be the best in each and every segment. Overall as a best and in each and every genre the best are two different things and problems rise in the second statement only. Remember, by the second statement, you are challenging some of the best of the best of the bests in each segment. Take semi classical, if you say Rafi sahab was the best, even amongst film enthusiasts, you are challenging Ghantashala or Manna fans also, and at the end of the day rather than technical discussion, people grab on trivias and anecdotes to prove a point which gradually shifts to bad mouthing also..

    Similar for ghazals, comedy songs, romantic songs, sad songs etc. etc. If you claim in every segment he was the best, then there are going to be contradictory views, my friend,,,

    These are my views though.. I remember Surajit Bose and Satyansh also shared the same viewpoint some time back. I hope you are not hurt, just take as a viewpoint. Thanks.

  41. 141
    kishorefan Says:

    Arghya ji, Vitthal ji, Paramjeet ji

    You are too generous, honest and balanced in your views. My full appreciations to all of you sir’s. Vitthal sahab, thanks for your compliments on kishore da ka songs. You have correctly stated kishore enveloped rafi in 70’s bahut correct baat hai. This truth cannot be digested by rafi fans, that is why they come out with diluted facts on rafi, who is another mahagayaka, as paramjeet ji and Vitthal ji have said.

    MYK Ji,

    So you have responded after a long time. Thanks, my post had an effect on you. I never mean to hurt you or have any intention to comment against you, but I wanted to say only facts which are balanced. You may accept it or not, it is upto you. Mr. Vitthal is correct, whenever ghantasala was introduced in rafi and now kishore forums, he was hailed as greater (surprisingly by people who are not ghantasala fans – because they are open music lovers ) , but I feel you are not able to digest this fact and whenever ghantasala is appreciated you make your entry to say rafi is the benchmark and was greater. This itself shows your insecured feeling towards rafi as a great singer (so are some other rafi fans), who as I consider, in fact was a great singer. Similarly, whenever kishore fans stated real facts on kishore, again the same story, rafi sang for kishore – that this etc. without in fact pointing out any musical defects, you create some other stories. I do not know if you introduce rafi in ghantasala or jesudas and sounderrajan forum, whether rafi would be appreciated in similar fashion. It is a wonder that, as arghya ji states, ghantasala has been marvellously appreciated by both rafi as well as kishore fans. What does this prove.

    Though the following questions are irrelevant, since you have raised points on ghantasala addressed to me, with my limited knowledge on ghantasala as kishore fan and purely based on your 2 posts & other posts here, I have got the following doubts, could you please clarify.

    1. Pandit gyanprakash says rafi is greater. Did pandit ji hear ghantasala, and what would be his take if he hears him. Only hearing rafi and concluding will be an incomplete conclusion. The other hindi singers, did they hear ghantasala before coming to a conclusion on rafi. Regarding spb, illayaraja and jesudas, I have seen their comments as well, they too have rated ghantasala beyond comparison like rafi. In fact spb states, I have seen it, na bhuto na bhavishyati for ghantasala (past as well as future there will not be singer like ghantasala) what does this prove.

    2. I have seen in post of one Mr. Raghavan saying that ghantasala was master in qawalis as well as western music too (even ghantasala website says so) so in my view, if the said points are correct, what is your view. You yourself say, you are not sure how many genres ghantasala mastered- then how can you say rafi sang more genres than ghantasala.

    3. You yourself agree ghantasala is stronger in classical – there itself the issue stands closed – Classical music is the original mother of playback singing. As per Mr. Vitthal, greatest classical exponents of classical music have praised ghantasala as the greatest.

    4. As vitthal ji asked why do not you point out the features musically in which you consider rafi’s renditions as greater to ghantasala (or even kishore).

    5. Many singers have praised rafi. This you quote to prove him as greater. Similar is the case for ghantasala and kishore too. (see posts by arghya ji and vitthal ji) Moreso both ghantasala and kishore have been praised by rafi and lata as well. What do you say on this.

    6. In your previous post you say that ghantasala was only stronger in classical (128 post), in your next post (139) you have added bhajans, romantic and sentimental songs for ghantasala, what is this. You change facts in each posts ? Perhaps you would add more in your next post.

    7. Lastly, one OF the interesting points of Mr. Vitthal ji, that rafi met ghantasala and indeed praised ghantasala many times, but ghantasala never met rafi. What does this prove. Logically also, Vitthal ji appears correct. My questions have nothing to do with knowledge on ghantasala, but are based purely on the posts of Mr. Vitthal, Arghya ji, and yours.

    Mr. Vitthal ji and Arghya ji also state that comparisons between legends is really absurd. Further, as vitthal ji states, fans of other legends (ghantasala and kishore) are more dignified than fans of rafi, as they never interfere. The only interference comes when, as arghya ji states, that rafi is the best in every genre and that this etc., which is purely false. In fact, as
    arghya ji, stated, Even Mr. Satyansh and Mr. Surajit bose, Mr. Lalit, Mr. Srivas, Mr. Khan in rafi forum etc. have rated ghantasala as clearly greater than rafi. This MYK ji is clearly aware.

    I AM IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH MY FRIEND ARGHYA JI, ON HIS FOLLOWING OBSERVATIONS TO MYK AND ARGHYA JI IS 100% CORRECT.

    (Post 140 of
    Arghya ji)

    //What is insteresting is that Rafi is the benchmark to which all singers are compared (including recently Ghantasala)//
    I think, Myk, it is more because Rafi fans project him to be the best in each and every segment. Overall as a best and in each and every genre the best are two different things and problems rise in the second statement only. Remember, by the second statement, you are challenging some of the best of the best of the bests in each segment. Take semi classical, if you say Rafi sahab was the best, even amongst film enthusiasts, you are challenging Ghantashala or Manna fans also, and at the end of the day rather than technical discussion, people grab on trivias and anecdotes to prove a point which gradually shifts to bad mouthing also..

    Similar for ghazals, comedy songs, romantic songs, sad songs etc. etc. If you claim in every segment he was the best, then there are going to be contradictory views, my friend,,,

  42. 142
    paramjeet Says:

    post no 140
    A killer of a statement.
    I support each and every bit of it. Main poori tarah se samarthan karta hoon is baat ki, Kishorefan ji ki tarah.

  43. 143
    kishorefan Says:

    Mr MYK – Please respond to this post of a rafi foundation member from Hyderabad. This was posted in Mesmerising magic of rafi article in rafi forum. (Your question on how many genres did ghantasala had mastered – a fitting reply from a real rafi fan )

    A S MURTY Says:

    April 27th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    thanks to Narayananji and Shikha Biswas for the excellent article. A lot of what is said in the article is not known to many and therefore I refrain from putting any kind of comments on a subject on which I have no knowledge. I have seen shrikant narayan’s live programmes and know that he is one singer who puts in a lot of passion in rendering the songs of rafi sahab and doing an excellent job. a great scholar in music who has known anil biswas and one who has researched very deeply into the music styles of both hindustani and carnatic (from the south) is dr m chittaranjan. himself an accomplished musician who composes music, dr chittaranjan is an authority and a household name for most music lovers in andhra pradesh. on several occasions when we met him to enquire how he rates the play back singers of both hindi film world and the southern languages, he emphatically states that rafi sahab is way above all the established names and that ghantasala comes a very close second and that these two singers between themselves have practically explored all the possible naunces of music that can evolve. every music director has his/her own style of composing the songs and choses the right playback singer based on various factors and may not chose a particular playback singer for reasons other than being the best in the industry. shikhaji has put paid to rest any controversy that may be in the minds of music lovers as far as anil biswas and rafi sahab’s relationship is concerned and let us not focus our attention on these matters.

  44. 144
    arghya Says:

    **** RABINDRA SANGEETS OF KISHORE KUMAR****

    As promised by me earlier, I am giving you the download links of Tagore Songs rendered by Kishore Kumar. He released two albums- one in 1980 and the other in 1986, both under music arrangement of Hemanta Mukopadhyay(Hemant Kumar). Here are the songs from 1980 album:

    1. http://www.mediafire.com/file/my2kod0dwtt/AAJ

    Aaj khela bhangar khela.

    2. http://www.mediafire.com/file/mzlnlm2k1yi/AMAR

    Amar raat pohalo.

    3. http://www.mediafire.com/file/y4aydimremm/AMI

    Aami chini go chini- Not the Charulata film version recorded with Ray but a different one with different music arrangement.

    4. http://www.mediafire.com/file/j3mfz2lhm3g/AMI

    Aami tomay joto.

    5. http://www.mediafire.com/file/zwkmm4gtdcj/EKTUKU

    Ektuku chhoan laage.

    6. http://www.mediafire.com/file/twyoq5motih/JADI

    Jodi tor daak shune keu.

    7. http://www.mediafire.com/file/kmjgvmj2mgy/MAYABANO

    Mayabono biharini.

    8. http://www.mediafire.com/file/4n3zydzodtl/SAGHONO

    Saghana gahana raatri. The best amongst all! Just see Kishore’s hold on the lowest octave in the mukhda- ranging four complete notes, then he traverses medium octave in the first and the start of second mukhda and then just like a lightening switches to third octave and covers three complete notes towards the end.. This song is very tough to execute and not too many people ventured in this song before and after Kishore.. I think Hemant only insisted Kishore to try out this owing to his stupendous control on the lowest octave.

    9. http://www.mediafire.com/file/myjjeirye1z/EI

    Ei kathati mone rekho.

    10. http://www.mediafire.com/file/znzoj5d3own/E

    E din aaji kon ghare go.

    Songs from 1986 album:

    1. http://www.mediafire.com/file/nwm3rwzn5zg/AKASH_BHARA_SURYA_TARA.MP3

    2. http://www.mediafire.com/file/rtdqukjzuwz/ALOKER
    Aloker ei jharnadharaye

    3. http://www.mediafire.com/file/ixyn0jyr1nc/AMAR_ANDHAPRADIP.MP3

    4. http://www.mediafire.com/file/bztmzy2wunz/AMAR_BELA_JEY_JAI.MP3

    5. http://www.mediafire.com/file/o2mwdmzjtj3/CHOKER_ALOY_DEKHEYCHILEM.MP3

    6. http://www.mediafire.com/file/mznw5gjhjyz/DIN

    Din jodi holo

    7. http://www.mediafire.com/file/tnzdnyvotkd/DINER_SESHEY.MP3

    Diner sheshe ghumer deshe

    8. http://www.mediafire.com/file/mqm2dzmmuz2/DINGULI_MOR_SONAR_KANCHAY.MP3

    9. http://www.mediafire.com/file/jfyjzozwniy/PATHER_SESH_KOTHAI.MP3

    10. http://www.mediafire.com/file/ywnwl23gjmg/PURANO_SEI_DINER_KATHA.MP3

    Now, friends, I would love to listen to the feedback of knowledgable and sincere music fans here.. Language should not be a barrier to understand the melody and singing of these songs.

    Thanks.

  45. 145
    kishorefan Says:

    Mr. MYK

    I think you are not great than Mr. Chittaranjan whom Sri A S R Murthy mentioned in his post. Pl. try to update true facts.

  46. 146
    J.K. Bhagchandani Says:

    I totally agree with Kishorefan that “Classical music is the original mother of playback singing.” (post 141, point no.3). That should settle at least the Rafi vs. Kishore debate. Comparisons between other greats can be debated separately.

  47. 147
    paramjeet Says:

    saghana gahna raatri- haan ji sir, mere hisaab se ek aesa accomplishment hai jo ek gayak apni saari zindagi sirf chah kar sakta hai..

    Kishorefan bhai.. Bhaiya, chhodo yeh sab baaton ko.. Aap ke hisaab se Kishoreji ka sab se difficult yoodelling kaunsa hai?? Main ek bahut kathin sawal poochh raha hoon isi liye ke main dekhna chahta hoon aapka aur mera choice milta hai ya nahi..

    Aur, aapke hisaab se Rafisaab ka sabse behetareen semi classical kaun sa tha? Mere khayal se ‘Madhuban mein radhika’ aur ‘Baat chalat nayi chunri’ hai.. Aap ka kya khayal hai?

  48. 148
    kishorefan Says:

    Mr. Arghya ji,

    Thanks for your uploading of songs of kishore ji in rabindra sangeet. The songs mayabona biharini, jadi tero dak suhe keu na ashe tabe ekla chalo re, saguna gahana ratri, were nice to hear and great from the 1980 albums. Due to my limited knowledge of music, I was not able to appreciate musically, much of other songs but it was a different feeling of listening to kishore. Perhaps the language bar might be there, but I could catch the sincerity with which kishore sings. Saguna gahana ratri, was rated as one of great songs by Sri Vas ji here, I remember. Thanks for the links. 1986 albums, I am yet to hear as they are not currently opening in my system (I tried just now) I will get back after I hear them.

    Arghya ji/paramjeet ji,

    My posts 141 & 143, 145 addressed to Mr. MYK – have you seen no response received yet, since genuine facts are placed and it will be a big surprise, if we receive correct reply for each of the points raised therein. (I very much doubt, whether correct reply or again diluted facts and stories will come up)

    Even post 133 by vitthal ji, is not correctly responded to by Mr. MYK, he has escaped all the major facts quoted by Mr. Vitthal. It is a sheer escapism and this itself shows that MYK or other rafi fan has no answer to vitthal ji’s points. What does that prove – it is quite clear and need not be repeated again that rafi’s talent is limited. That should put an end to biased rafi fans.

    Keep it up Vitthal ji for successfully tackling biased rafi fans- kudos.

  49. 149
    paramjeet Says:

    ek dum galat! Bahut hi galat.. Kishorefan, Vitthal sahab aur arghya bhai..

    main bhi vanaras hindu university se sangeet mein diploma haseel kiya hoon.. Maine abhi apna poora hruday aur kaan laga ke Siva Sankari aur Nache man more dono geeton ko suna hai.. Bhaiyon, agar koi kehta nache man mora ko siva sankari ke saath mein compare karta hai to us aadmi ko sangeet ka koi jaankaari nahi hai..

    Nache man mora shuru hota hai akaratmak aalaap se.. Beeche mein teen antara hai jisme rafi sahab achhi harqatein lete hai aur jisko taan bolte hai woh shuru hota hai 5:01 se leke 5:13 seconds tak aur fir 5:29 se leke 5: 40 seconds tak.. Kul milaake hardly 20 seconds ka taan- woh bhi aakaratmak..

    Yeh gaane ko Siva Sankari ke saath tulna karna shastriya sangeet ka apmaan hai.. Siva Sankari mein teen tarah ke taan liye gaye hai- bol taan, sargam taan aur aakaratmak taan.. Yeh teen tarah ke taan mein sabse kathin hota hai sargam taan, jo Siva Sankari mein udara se leke tara tak Ghantashalaji ne liya hai.. Tempo bhi sargam mein Nache man mora ke akaratmak taan se 2 ya 3 times fast hai.. Aalaap Siva Sankari mein 3 ya 4 baar liya jaata hai alag alag range mein.. Jo variation Siva Sankari mein hai uska 20% bhi Nache man mora mein nahi hai.. Utar, chadhao, landing of notes, sustainance of breath, complexity of taans kisime bhi Nache man mora Siva Sankari ke aas paas bhi nahi aata hai..

    Agar koi bolta hai ke Nache man mora ka taan Siva Sankari ke barabar ka hai to main bhi Lalit Ganpathy ji ki tarah bolunga ‘ they think they know music’ magaar sangeet unko aata nahi hai..

    waise dekha jaye to Nache man mora ki tulna payalwali dekhna ke saath kiya jaye to theek hai. Aalaap ke badle bol taan hai, aakhir ka aakaratmak taan nahi hai magar antara Payalwali dekhna ka zyada high hai aur harqat Nache man mora ke antara se zyada hai..

    Siva sankari is class apart..

  50. 150
    A S MURTY Says:

    Friends, ref posts 143, 145 and 146 and most other posts in general. I am here today after a long gap and decided to chip in only because the debate here is healthy and there is little mud-slinging on one another. That is a plus point to the on going discussion. Are we discussing who is the best playback singer ? If so, one cannot compare Rafi Sahab and Ghantasala. They are from as different fields as say shastriya sangeet and the carnatic music of the south. great exponents of shastriya gayan just cannot render a carnatic composition nor is the case true of vice versa. you also cannot compare the western style of music – classical or jazz with indian style of music. hence it is an exercise in futility when we venture to compare. the telegu film industry took a completely different style of compositions – to blend with its social and tradtional structures – that rafi sahab would never have been able to fit in. he did get to sing as many as fourteen telugu film songs but the writing on the wall is clear – ghantasala rules the field here. so also is the case with ghantasala, the greatest ever exponent of playback singing in telugu music industry who would not have fitted in the hindi film music. “siva sankari” is a total carnatic composition which just happened to find a place in a telugu movie too. ‘nache man mora magan dighdha dighi dighi and other classical songs of rafi sahab were only partial ‘shastriya sangeet’ compositions were more filmy in the compsotions and hence to compare such songs is not justified. the styles are so different that any comparison would fall flat. my comments on another forum have been inserted in post 143 and i do not mind that at all. i would only like to add that it should not be taken out of context for we are all music lovers and appreciate the greatness of several playback singers – only our tastes differ and we tend to stick to our liking at whatever cost. shri m chittaranjan says himself that ‘din dhal jaaye haye’ by rafi sahab could not have been rendered by ghantasala in the same fashion only because such expressions could not have been inserted in the movies that were the order of the day in telugu film world at that time or even now. that ‘aura’ has been absent in the south and hence even if ghantasala could render such a beauty of a composition in telugu films, it would not have attained the status of the above song by rafi sahab .

    A S MURTY
    SECRETARY
    RAFI FOUNDATION,
    Hyderabad Chapter

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