An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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March 25th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
Paramjeet
I don’t feel like responding to your rant.I have no appetite for engaging in a slanging match with anybody.My first two comments were on Sehgal,a film singer and I didn’t say anything derogatory to any of the participants in the debate.But then in your screed,you used the foulest language for me.I don’t understand by what right.
Sehgal, like any other singer, is not a private individual .He is in the public domain.While he gets bouquets from some,he can get brickbats from others .This is the liberty that we need if we are to advance our understanding of any form of art.And,let me tell you,that an artist who is extolled in a particular period,may be dismissed as worthless in another.In the free market of ideas,no restrictions can be placed on criticism of any artist or art form,however severe this criticism may appear to some acolytes.We are not liviing in a Stalinist regime where people are to be sent to concentration camps for thinking freely.Mahatma Gandhi is the father of our nation and yet he has many critics.Therefore,Paramjeet, learn some basic lessons in tolerance of views that are not palatable to you.You are not a repository of all wisdom.All of us who spend our time in discussions of music here love it.Otherwise we would not be wasting our time.None of us here is idle.And some of us may be holding very high positions in some public spheres.So don’t call others morons and so on.Nobody is a moron here.All are quite intelligent and they are expressing their views accorging to their tastes and lights.Some may be better qualified than the others and this is how the world is. And despite the fierceness of the debate sometimes,it is a learning process.But,of course,you have all the knowledge in the world and nobody should say anything without seeking your permission.Look at the words you used in reaction to my first post–muhn kala and all that filth.In my response to your post, I was still respectful to you but you continued to snarl and I still didn’t react but when others joined in the chime I had to.
Without understanding the thrust of my argument,you are harping on gandharv.You are not addressing the issue that I am raising.It seems to me you don’t know how to read a text.
Let me simplify things for you.
1.Film music is a popular form of singing.It is meant for the large masses who include highly knowledgeable people like Pandit Ravi Shankar and Shri Paramjeet as well as rickshaw pullers.Now Paramjeet do you deny that Sehgal is not a widely known singer?However meritorious be the quality of his singing according to you,masses have rejected him.This is not the case with Rafi.
2.Sehgal has not stood the test of time which is very important for a singer to be really great.Do you deny that Sehgal met with oblivion in the fifties itself? This can’t be said of Rafi after thirty years of his demise.
3.Rafi’s task was much more challenging as he was called upon to sing almost every type of song that Hindi film music has had to offer.Can you say this thing of Sehgal?
4.In all my posts I have asked you to cite which of Rafi’s songs Sehgal could have sung . You haven’t answered these questions.
5.I am not questioning Sehgal’s ability to sing some kinds of semi-classical songs.I am simply saying that Sehgal’s voice failed to carry people along. His was a style of singing that couldn’t sustain interest in him when Rafi,Talat and Mukesh came along.
6.There are many and there were many in Rafi’s time also who could sing classical songs very well.But they didn’t have Rafi’s mellifluous voice that swept the nation and continues to make waves even now.There was a contemporary of Rafi,S.D.Batish.He was an excellent classicist but couldn’t make a mark in the film music.His voice didn’t help him.
Paramjeet,you seem to have an irascible temperament.You have rebuked others also.You also have a tendency to fly off the tangent.I don’t like to make personal comments on anybody but you have triggered the tirade.Now I request you to respond to the six points I have raised above.I will be happy to to be proved wrong silly.But if you have nothing to say,then mum is the word and not expletives.
March 25th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Keeping in view the arguments till date about the supremacy of Ghantasala over Rafi or vice versa in singing talent, I, being a fan of both, wouldlike to observe that - most of the rafi fans know and understand only HINDI and they do not know or know little and understand Telugu or any other regional languages whereas Ghantasala fans know and understand not only Telugu but also Hindi and they admire both Ghantasala and Rafi. Therefore, ghantasala fans are better judges than rafi fans. Further, Hindi enjoys the reputation and publicity of a national language which the other regional languages donot get and as such hindi songs are more and more popular and accessible to public than songs of any regional languages in the country and quite naturally hindi singers like rafi get more attention and applause than regional singers like ghantasala. The Rafi fans look like having less patience and they have the psycho of losing the rafi`s greatness especially when somebody tries to prove that there is a singer better than rafi, that is ghantasala. The rafi fans should understand that some of the ardent fans of rafi were overwhelmed by the majestic and melodious voice of ghantasala and they rated him above rafi as the greatest ever, supreme and incomparable. The fact that Lata Mangeshkar preferred to sing the suvarna sundari song with ghantasala instead of rafi, after finding rafi struggling in rehearsals, clearly shows who is supreme and incomparable. This fact can be checked and verified with Lata Mangeshkar(who is still alive) if rafi fans so desire. Further, ghantasala had complete command over both telugu and sanskrit languages, which was more than the command rafi had over hindi.However, rafi was more famous than ghantasala just because of his association with national language while ghantasala confined himself to being regional. The rafi fans can better understand these hard realities only when they are prepared to open their eyes and call a spade a spade. They neednot listen to all songs sung by these two greats and if they keenly listen to some of the best songs sung by them , they can easily know who is the best. But all said and done, I still expect some fireworks from rafi fans who try to dispute and deny above matters. I just pity them. The fans of both legends say that ghantasala is easily the greatest ever produced by India for all times and he richly deserves BHARAT RATNA posthumously. There can never be one more singer like him in this KALI YUG.
March 25th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Anil
Don’t act smart. You have not replied to paramjeet ji’s sensible post about your role in defending rafi fans in an opportunistic way. Coming to kishore’s site and you start projecting rafi and his fans as idols here. There was no comparison discussion here for long time, even vitthal ji was sharing ghantashala songs with kishore lovers and arghya ji was sharing kishore bengali songs, when MYK and others interfered bring rafi factor and diluting the whole topic. People like you started supporting rafi fans and whole topic got diluted into mud slinging. You rafi fans always want to spoil the party, Are you happy now? Your goal has been achieved. Vitthal ji, And Arghya ji, have decided to withdraw, that shows their great and sensible nature as music lovers, as they do not want to enter into unnecessary faltoo arguments from rafi fans. Actually, you rafi fans should be out from here so that this forum can be cleansed of its mud by/of rafi fans. Be happy now MYK, Anil and other rafi fans for achieving your goal of spoiling the party. You are not music lovers, but shamenatic spoilers of genuine music lover’s discussions.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:32 am
Kishore fan,
You had told your points many times, and the same story. What will MYK and other rafi fans reply. They have no points to reply to ghantashala fans presentations, I have seen they are so perfect, that no body can counteract them. That is why, genuine music lovers like Arghya bhai, Paramjeet Bhai, Satyansh Bhai, surajit Bhai, kishore fan bhai have all appreciated ghantshala. The crux of my point is, silly replies are coming from these MYK and other rafians for projecting and maintaining rafi’s false superiority in a silly/foolish way rather than a dignifed way through sensible arguments, such as I will not reply, repetition of posts - One point I have seen many times - rafi not rendering certain genres rendered by ghantashala - Why MYK is escaping - he does not say either yes or no, but will say I will not reply - What is this ? if he says yes, he cannot prove, if he says no, he knows he admits the superiority. Really caught between two. It is a clear admission of submission to the facts presented by ghantashala fans, but would not like to openly admit as it will come in the way of rafi’s fanaticism. So nothing much to go on that.
Rafi fanatics, - Dhaniram and Myk
Dhaniram - what do you know about saigal ? One question asked by sandeep shrivastav ji, - saigal created influence with 200 songs which rafi could create with some thousands of songs. Where is the reply ? All silly escapism points you are raising.
MYK -
You have said kishore’s voice as phait hui tyre ? Kya deemag thik se kaam nai kar raha hai kya ? This phati hui tyre voice has overtaken rafi , dethroned rafi and made rafi never regain his earlier status. Samajh gaye kya yaah phir se thik se samjha doon. You ask paramjeet ji to write in english, you do not know hindi, how could you appreciate rafi and kishore’s hindi songs ? What are you talking nonsense ? Simply passing silly comments on kishore, ghantashala like singers.
MYK, You do not know about music and sangeet and start talking about siva sankari of ghantashala and rafi’s comparison with him. Is your mind working sensibly ? Do you know about respect a musician (a person with music knowledge) has for saigal and ghantashala. You write to shastry ji not to pass comments on your music. Then what about your comments on siva sankari/laila majnu song, which shows a BIG ZERO of your knowledge on music. Are such comments made by a person who has musical knowledge (you find fault with shastry ji for commenting on your musical knowledge) What are you upto? Creating furore here. If that is the case, please simply get lost from here, as no body is interested to hear any of further silly and funny comments from you.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:11 am
MYK, contd.. My last line is - I hope you got what I mean.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:10 am
MYK ji,
Why are you arguing ? Please come out (i hope what I mean it)
March 25th, 2010 at 4:16 am
Kishorefan,
I thought you were atleast different from other Kishore fans, but it turns out you are one in the same. I do not know you, and you do not know me, therefore refrain from passing judgements. My post 844 was in general, there are so many aspects one has to take into consideration when analyzing a statement. It’s not that I cannot respond to your points (I have in the past), its just that you and others, sorry to say, cannot discuss anything in a civilized and knowledgeable manner, therefore there is no point in discussing anything here (as others such as Dhani Ram etc.) have also pointed out. I can go back and nitpick at all the trash you have written, but I will not, because I am not interested in a dicussion which such individuals. Also, in the future, please refrain from taking my name (as you so often do), unless I am involved in a discussion with you. It is clear that my posts bother you because you have no answer to them, and that you have no knowledge of music, and could not reply to my past posts which is why I don’t bother to have any discussions with you. I’d rather discuss with those who are sane. You don’t know me, therefore you cannot comment on what I know or don’t know. From your posts, you have shown you have little or no credibility whatsoever. I don’t really care for what you have to say, because it doesn’t matter. This argument is quite silly and old which is why I have not bothered to reply to your nonsense refrains and arguments.
As Dhani Ram mentioned:
“I had no intention of hitting back at the brain-deficits but they seem to have lost their balance.they specialize more in expletives than the aesthetics of music.that is why balarykar bemoans”.
You are quite obviously a part of the above group. Arghya even mentions that this thread is useless (something I have been mentioning long before). Vitthal has also decided to leave this forum. I wonder why ?. Kishore must be turning in his grave after listening to his fans spread such comments.
Sastry,
I am definitely not an escapist, the only ones who are ecapists are you and your friends here who could not respond to earlier posts, and now when the opportunity arises, you reverse the situation around. Kindly go back and read your post, and then tell me what you said and what you did not say. I can definitely reply to your points (which I have in the past, points from others which are similar to yours). Nothing you said is really new, and I don’t find it true.
Arghya, why is KK-RD irrelevant here ?. I am not dismissive of Kishore and his talent, I just don’t agree when he is put in the same category as Rafi. Why should he be compared to Rafi ?. There is no comparison at all, and one should know where to draw the line. We both may have different views, but we can both gain from a good discussion as well. I just mentioned that the “Likhar tera naam zamin par” song was good from a technical viewpoint (note changing, alaaps etc.), and that classical musicians I know are fond of this song too. Where did the Siva Sankari song come into comparison this time ?. Anyways, Ghantasala did excellent in that song, but I don’t find it to be the most difficult (as many claim here). I think there is special emoting there but not superhumaness (as you claim). I think you are dismissive of Rafi and his unmatched talent, as I have seen many of your posts elsewhere which give me such a feeling. If you are, that’s fine, and if you’re not, well then that’s also fine too.
Raj, Paramjeet, the atmosphere of this forum is not great for good discussion, because there is a lot of filth spread. Therefore I will refrain from discussing music, not because I cannot, but because it’s my choice not to interact in such an atmosphere which will lead both parties no where. I think Kishore fans are very insecure (in general), which is why the name of Rafi (and other singers) keeps coming up all the time, and such nonsense is spread in the name of music.
Like Vitthal and others, I am leaving this thread, as it is useless. My time is spent better elsewhere reading knowledgable posts and not the nonsense that goes on here.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:03 pm
To Balarykar (continued from my previous post)
————————————————————————————–
“There may be some Rafi fans who think Rafi is the best in every aspect of singing but then you will find more such fellas among fans of other singers. Your strong sentences like ‘Rafi fans think no other singer should be allowed to sing’ can draw a lot of applause from the UAR crowd but it is just not true with the majority of Rafi fans.”
See, we are looking things differently. The people who have directly applaused are more of music fans than X or Y artist.
From my survey of online forums “more such fellas” are Rafi fans. This has nothing to do with Rafi. Its just that there may be more Rafi fans, or it may be even my own wrong sample/inference.
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Let me ask you what do you think of the Ghantasala fans who consider their idol to be superior to everyone else who ever sang in India or the Kishore fans who invents all sorts of theories to prove Kishore>/= Rafi
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“I have recently seen a video where Anand (of Anand-Milind duo) says something like he switches his radio off immediately after listening to a Rafi sahab song since he doesn’t want to listen to anyone else after listening to Rafi sahab. Will you include this MD under the category of Rafi fans you labelled under a fancy title.”
I just appreciate Anand idolizing Rafi. I don’t see what wrong he is doing there. Did he say that if any artists song is playing on the radio, he turns it off as its not Rafi? Do you seriously and religiously accept what he said? You see, he would definitely listen his own composed songs on radio which were never rendered by Rafi
Further I can tell you for sure if the RJ (radio jockey and not Ravindra Jain, lol) announced earlier “Chand mera dil chandni ho tum” will be followed by “Aake teri bahon mein”, he won’t turn the radio off. And please don’t label Anand in the UAR group then
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Genuinely hilarious but You don’t seem to have fully caught what I wanted to convey (my fault surely, I didn’t express it well) though you’ve reached the conclusion, more or less, I wanted you to.
See, when I mentioned this incident, I didn’t want to show that many MDs like Rafi sahab and therefore Rafi is great. What I wanted to say is that people, even well established ones, do have their favorites, many of them are very passionate about them and many of them make no secret of it. So, when someone says his favorite is untouchable or greater than someone who’s considered an icon, there is no need to jump up and cry out “balsphemy’, stone him”. You don’t have to religiously accept what Anand said and that’s what I myself wanted to say. Similarly you don’t have to make much hue and cry over what two fans of Rafi sahab said about their idol. If you are still in that mood you might have to go to your Guruji’s house and protest over his remarks like ‘none can sing “kal raat zindagi se mulaqat….” the way Rafisahab did’ or ‘Rafisahab was so good with “ehsaan tera hoga….” that Lataji couldn’t match up’. You can also not blame some Rafians for giving you a piece of their mind for declaring that “Rafi’s 1000 bhajans wouldn’t even approach a single ’sivasthuthy’ of SPB”.
May be more later….
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:53 pm
To Balarykar (continued from my post# 1782)
————————————————————————————-
“I asked you why Ravindra Jain went to Rafi for the technically difficult song and not Kishore and you responded that Ravindra Jain and other MDs didn’t give Rafi any semi-classical songs in the ’70s.”
You want to say that as a whole lets interpret RJ giving technically difficult songs to Rafi over KK as Rafi having edge over KK in this genre. This is the scenario when KJY was not on the scene. However, that very same RJ choosing KJY over Rafi in that very same genre can’t be interpreted as Rafi being less good than KJY. Why again different standard? The gist of my giving this example was that “Don’t interpret Rafi as less better than KJY in a genre coz of numbers, and similarly don’t overproject as KK as an incapable singer of classical songs”. Now who got the wrong meaning is for everybody to see.
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I see I haven’t made myself clear. I wasn’t speaking about any particular period, I was speaking about THAT SONG WHICH I THOUGHT YOU LINKED and I think I have to do a bit of explanation. For that song, RJ went to Rafi first and Rafi’s response was something like “I can’t sing this one in my life time”. My question was why RJ didn’t consider the Kishore (or any other popular HFM singer) option.
RJ preferred KJY over Rafi not because Rafi couldn’t sing semi-classicals ‘after 45′, infact Rafi was singing his old semi-classical gems in his live shows as well as he ever did. There are many reasons- for one RJ was very fond of KJY, for another he wasn’t doing too many big banner films. It was just that, despite his huge admiration for Rafi, RJ couldn’t work with Rafi much (just as he wasn’t able to work with Lataji much during ’70s/ early ’80s).
Hope to continue later…
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Dear friends and music lovers,
Thanks for your support and views. I think there is no purpose in involving in unnecessary arguments over established facts. No amount of discussion(s) can change such facts.
I am withdrawing from further arguments and debates in this forum.
Thanks again to all my friends for the encouraging views and support, & with a SPECIAL MENTION to the Moderator and Arghya ji, Paramjeet ji and Satyansh ji, with whom discussions have been very fruitful and encouraging.
Happy moments to all. Bye.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:09 pm
MR. MYK - BLATANT LIES YOU ARE SPEAKING
Your post 1779 to Mr. Shukla -
I never claimed the LM song to be as difficult as Siva Sankari,
THEN WHAT IS THIS ?
Post 844 of MYK in true voice thread
“The Siva Sankari song is not as difficult as the song from Laila Majnu, Rafi has sang many classical songs with ease similar to the one from that film, and also many classical songs that are much tougher”.
THIS IS THE BIGGEST JOKE EVER SEEN. AN OPEN CHALLENGE : KINDLY SHOW AT LEAST ONE CLASSICAL SONG OF RAFI EVEN TO THE EXTENT OF 50% OF SIVA SANKARI - DO NOT RUN AWAY WITHOUT REPLYING OR ESCAPE AS YOU HAD NOT REPLIED TO ANY OF THE POSTS/COMMENTS OF MR. SHUKLA, MR. SANDEEP, MR. PARAMJEET ETC. AS IT IS CLEAR YOU ARE CORNERED AND EXPOSED AND MAKING SILLY COMMENTS TO COVER SUCH ESCAPISM. I THINK YOU HAVE GONE OUT OF YOUR MIND BY SEEING THE POSTS OF GHANTASALA FANS WHO HAVE PRESENTED SUCH EVIDENCES THAT MADE YOU RUN OUT OF YOUR MIND AND MAKE SUCH SILLY/ESCAPISM POSTS, WITHOUT PROPERLY REPLYING. YOU HAVE NEVER REPLIED TO ANY OF SUCH POSTS AND AGAIN IT IS THE SAME REPETITION, AND IT IS CLEAR OF YOUR ZERO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT MUSIC. NOW YOU HAVE ALSO STARTED SPEAKING LIES. THAT’S NICE TO LEARN.
BY THE WAY YOUR OWN STATEMENT, NO AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION CAN PROVE RAFI TO BE IN ANY WAY SUPERIOR TO GHANTASALA. YOU MAY MAKE A RECORD OF THIS. AND YOU CANNOT PRESENT ANY EVIDENCES IN SUPPORT OF RAFI (AS PRESENTED BY GHANTASALA FANS) TO PROVE THIS AS IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO DO.
Paramjeet ji and Arghya ji
Again Saigal ji, FATHER OF HFM, had been talked in a bad taste by Mr. Dhaniram, I think these MYK and others have become restless in their minds, as it is clear they are not able to put any arguments or replies to any posts, rather only landing in criticising all others by calling rafi greatest, rafi greatest, (it will be fantastic to know whether these evergreen …ls know what they mean by the term “greatest”) I strictly advise these rafi fans to please stop writing any further nonsense and make exit in a dignified way, if you are not able to make reasonable arguments.
RAFI SAHAB MUST BE CRYING SEEING THIS OUT OF MIND MYK AND OTHER SIMILAR RAFI FANS.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:08 am
Anil, post 1781
Bro..You have a serious problem of nitpicking things without getting into the head or tail of anything. Dont nitpick points and read again the entire post of mine and try to assimillate what I meant there (if you can) and to what context I said so. Also spend time to think why I said “Barbaad e mohabbat” and “Kabhi khud pe” both as better songs than ” Likhkar tera naam zameen par”.. And since you conveniently and abruptly pick some lines to create debate, FYKI, the first two songs are not sung by Kishore Kumar
Friends, I wont be writing anything any further in this useless thread. If anyone wants to carry further any discussion, may kindly take it out of this forum at arghya.kishoreda@gmail.com. Otherwise, “Divine voice” thread is also available as long as we dont have any other newer articles.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:40 am
friends,
Ek vishleshan main aap ke saamne rakhta hoon Anil namak ek Rafi premi ke upar. Ghatnayein kuchh is tarah ke hote hai aur anilji kuchh is tarah se karte hai-
Ghatna- koi rafi bhakt yahan pe aake kishore ko(ya fir kisi anya gayak ko) ulta pulta bol deta hai(yaad rakhiye yeh kishore forum hai). Example: divine thread pe Kapil namak ek vyakti ya is thread par Rafibhakt aur Dhaniram naam ke vyakti.
Anilji- dekhte hai magar chup rehte hai. (maza aata hoga unko)
Ghatna- rafi bhakton ki aesi harqat dekhke anya fans gussa hokar unhe koste hai. Example: divine thread pe Lalit Ganpathy Kapil ko ya yahan pe Blarykar Rafibhakt ko.
Anilji- dekhte hai aur prarikriya ke chune hue kuchh points ko lekar yeh sabid karne kamar kaske lag jaate hai ke asal mein Rafi fans to nirapradh hai, asli gunahgaar to anya gayakon ke bhakt hai jo UAR banakar ladte hai.
Anilji, arghyaji mein sehmat hoon poori tarah se is baare mein ki aap ko sachchai maan ne ki taqat nahi hai.
Main is forum ke moderator ko bolna chahunga ke yeh site kishoreda ke prati pyar pe banaya gaya hai kya? Yadi haan, to hum kyun aese logon ko yahan pe aane dete hai jab ki yeh khud apne forum mein koi bhi neutral discussion hone nahi dete? (poochhiye satyansh, arghya, balyrkar, khan sahab, vitthalji, kishorefan, raj, shukla de- kisiko bhi). Main abhi isi waqt aese Rafi fans ke ghatiya politics ke upar apna prativaad chhodta hoon. jo log mujhe samarthan karte hai weh aesi ghatiya logon ko yahan se nikaalke is site ki musicality ko barkaraar rakhe.. Aur yeh Myk jaise insecured insaan, jo sangeet mein Lahore wali baat lata hai, kishore ki awaaz ko fati hui tyre bolta hai, saigal aur ghantashala jaise gayakon ko zaleel karta hai , use kadapi yahan pe aane na diya jaye. Aese log sangeet ke naam pe dhabba hai, sangeet mein dharm aur mazhab ko biasedness dete hai, inko sangeet se nahi apne apne mazhab wale logon ko badhawah dena hai..
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Anil,
Mujhe bhi koi shaukh nahi hai aap se baat karne ki.. Myk ke kiye hue ghatiya comments ko aap defend kar rahe ho(sirf isliye ki woh rafi fan hai), is se aap ki bhi niyat kaisi hai pata chal jata hai.. Kya Binu Nair mohdrafi.com ka owner ya moderator hai? Ya Haldar? To woh log kyun non-rafi fans ko unke site se nikalne ke liye bolte hai? Ab wohi teer aap logon pe aake lagi to aap to chirchiraane lage?
Dhani Ram,
Duniya mein sabse bada brain deficit agar kisiko dekha hai to woh tum ho.. HMV ke CD kharidne ke jagah kuchh music bhi seekh lete.. Saigal ne kaunse gaane pe udara saptak gandharv se tara saptak gandharv tak chhoen the woh tumne bataya nahi aur bolte ho ’saigal had a poor range’. Tumne Saigal ke pronounciation pe baat ki, maine kaha kya aap sure hai Rafi ya anya kisine aesi galti nahi ki? Tumne bataya nahi. Tumne kaha Saigal ki modulation nahi hai to maine kaha ‘aapko aesa kyun lagta hai, udaharan do’ to tumne kuchh bataya nahi abhi tak. Tumne kaha Saigal ko competition nahi thi jispe satyansh aur arghyaji ne unke samakaleen gayakon ki gayaki pe tumko poochha, tumne uska bhi jawab nahi diya, matlab tumne k c dey, pankaj mallick ko theek se suna hi nahi. Tumne kaha Saigal kuchh khaas gayak nahi the to bhi maine tumse poochha aesa kyun lagta hai aap ko.. Kuchh vishleshan kiye nahi aur aaj aake CD aur cassettes ke list de rahe ho.. Aap Haldar babu to nahi ho na? Weh bhi aese hi karte the
Myk,
Hum insecured nahi hai. Agar hote to hamare hi forum mein rafi sahab ki taarif nahi karte hum sab. Main, satyansh, vitthal, arghya, balrykar sabhi.. aur humne aap ke rafi forum bhi jana bandh kar diye hai. Insecured to aap log ho-aap, dhani ram jaise log- jo bin bulaye mehmaan ki tarah yahan pe aa jate hai, rafi chhodke baaki gayakon ko ulta pulta bolte hai aur chale jaate hai. Kuchh log to itne insecured hai ke apna asli naam bhi nahi lete, bhakt, fan etc lagake chale aate hai.. Aap ka bhi asli naam humein pata nahi. Insecured kaun hua phir?
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Mr. MYK
You are a pure escapist. You cannot reply to my points, because you know they are true and you cannot deny any of them and any amount of admission for those TRUE facts will act against your ego for rafi. So keep the same to yourself. Kindly do not try to state something such as I will not reply, or it is a repetition (you had also not earlier replied to any of such queries of Mr. Vitthal as well, can you show replies for such posts - No), Because you cannot reply, this everybody knows and is a sheer escapism. You may think anything about me, it hardly matters, but your views if you think are correct, then you are certainly wrong. You may think the same about me, but before thinking I request you to make a point that my points are not my points but points of persons steeped in music, and it is for you to decide what weight they carry ? Any criticism on my points are only criticism of points of those persons steeped in music itself (including rafi who had praised ghantasala many times but not vice versa at any point of time )
I never called you a fool and I never will. It is you who have used such language against a individual, that shows your insecure feeling as a rafi fan.
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:36 pm
To Arghya (ref post#1780)
First off, this particular post is not your first one addressed at me. We have had many debates in the past.
Next, you could very well have told to my face what you think about me/my posts rather than taking the backhanded (Prabhanjan) route.
Third point, please have alook at my post# 1782, may be you’d realise what I was trying to convey about Kishore and SPB being no great shakes.
Fourth point, I am not here for respect, accolades and the stuff. If you care to notice, I post here only when Rafi and his fans have been targeted for attacks of a special kind, though I have posted something occassionally when something interesting (to me) came up for debate.
Fifth point, I have absolutely no fear in calling a spade a spade, too bad you don’t know me personally. This applies to my fascination for Rafi sahab too; if in doubt you can visit the Rafi sahab’s most frequented orkut community (where you are a member to the best of my knowledge) and do a bit of search about me.
Finally, I respect and admire you for many things (your musical knowledge being one of them). But can’t help pointing out that typical ‘holier than thou’ attitude (of the so-called ‘true music’ fans). I can explain it to you if you want; may not be here but privately.
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Mr. MYK,
You have not responded to my query ? I had asked kishore had received numerous praise by persons steeped in music (pancham da), what you have to say on that ?
In your own words, praise by persons steeped in music means a lot.
As I understand Binu Nair had criticised Anil Biswas, whereas in the latest post of Mr. Vitthal in divine voice col. Anil Biswas was praised by ghantasala, again praise from a person steeped in music, - what do you say on that ?
Saigal is greatly revered by rafi and others, again praises from persons steeped in music like rafi, would you agree for this ?
Manna dey is praised by rafi, a person steeped in music ? Manna - what do you say about him then ?
March 21st, 2010 at 10:12 pm
anilji
I had no intention of hitting back at the brain-deficits but they seem to have lost their balance.they specialize more in expletives than the aesthetics of music.that is why balarykar bemoans:
” Not even in a single post of yours here, you have criticized Dhaniram or Rafibhakt directly. Instead, you have been continously (sic) and unabatedly nit-picking my points posted against them and not against Rafi. Like two years back, even today, you can’t criticize the morons.”
My post 1683 has become a nightmare for them.I had issued a clarification which I thought would quench their fury.Obviously it hasn’t.They are still on fire.So let me revisit the post and restate what I said in simpler words so that the dimwits can understand what I said.
1 My first point was with regard to the quality of Sehgal’s voice and his style of singing.Sehgal sings in a singsong manner that doesn’t appeal to the listeners in general.
2 Therefore he has been consigned to oblivion.Much lip service is paid to him and nothing more .Leaving aside a couple of his songs like babul mora nehar chooto jaaye or kya maine kiya hai etc which old timers like me still cherish his songs have been altogether forgotten.
3.I wrote that he has been made into a fetish.Yes,lip service is paid to him but hardly anybody likes to listen to him.When Radio World Space was in operation,it had a channel called Farishta,devoted to songs from 1940s to 1970s.Sehgal’s songs were never broadcast there.I made request to them to do it but my request was not heeded.There was a two hour weekly programme of listeners’ choice.Never was a Sehgal song requested.The radio had a twenty four hour channel devoted to classical music.Of course, in pure classical sections,no film singer was ever played but there was an hour-long weekly programme which broadcast film songs.Never was Sehgal played.Rafi was there in every broadcast.
4.There was a set of cassettes containing classical film songs brought out by HMV in 1980s.It contained none by Sehgal.Rafi had a good representation.(No Kishore also)
5.Only last month I bought a recently made CD containing 48 classical songs.There is nothing in it by Sehgal.It is dominated by Rafi,Manna De and Lata.(Kishore is absent).
6.My other point was that Rafi has sung songs of such a wide ranging variety that Sehgal couldn’t have even dreamed of it.And I said and say again that Sehgal couldn’t have sung any of Rafi’s songs with any degree of success.I have hundreds of such songs in mind.There is a duet with Lata:Sun meiri saanwari apna bana ke bhool na jaana.There is:main yeh soch kar us ke dar se utha tha ki voh rok le gi mana le gi mujh ko.There is :meire mahboob tujhe meiri mohabbat ki kasam.There is: Raha gardishon mein har dum.How many should I cite? Which ones would have Sehgal even attempted? While Rafi wouldn’t have done very badly attempting Sehgal.
7.Ironically,Sehgal was the fastest to be forgotten.In early fifties itself he was dropped.
Now wisdom lies in looking at reality as it is.Nincompoops will again go into a spin at what I have written and will spew out their weird riddles and rigmarole.
March 21st, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Balarykar,
Thank you for the honest post. It deserves an honest response and here it is.
I was rather taken aback by your original post, coming as it was, from you. I still maintain it was in bad taste. If you wanted to put your points across to the hard-core Rafi fans, there were better ways than highlighting (what you thought) were Rafi’s short comings. You appeared to be very rude to Rafi (more than to Rafi fans), I suggest you read it once more and may be you would realise it. And all the negative points which you raised about Rafi are not the ones that may be called proven truths.
Personally, I didn’t find the posts you mentioned disgusting or stinking. The two posters didn’t try to pose for authorities in music and they were not abusive or disrespectful. They said Rafi, for them, is a greater singer than Saigal. One of them also said, Rafi should be called the father of Hindi playback singing and not Saigal. How can these posts be any more disgusting than certain posts by people who called themselves as trained musicians calling Rafi a ‘crooner without dimension’ and trying their best to show that Rafi is pretty ordinary (and showy) in ‘Duniya ke rakhwale’ and a lot of assorted stuff. You can see it for yourself in this thread itself, if you want. None of the Rafi fans ‘blasted’ or ‘ripped apart’ any singer here more than these musicians (?) did with Rafi. And none of the so-called ‘true music lovers’ had anything to post in protest (though I have to admire Arghya especially for not joining with them in all their aguments). If you don’t find it an example of ‘double-standards’, then I have nothing more to say on this. You think SPB is a far greater devotional (and semi-classical) singer than Rafi. Dhaniramji and Rafibhaktji think Rafi is greater in many aspects of singing than Saigal. Why do you want to make a big fuss about their stance only? What you think is the truth and what Rafi fans think is ’stinking’?
No, I didn’t trash either Kishore or SPB. You are actually quoting out of context. I was trying to show the lacuna in your line of argument. You were trying to show that since Rafi couldn’t do a difficult song which Yesu Das sang ultimately, Rafi isn’t such a great singer. I was simply extending that logic to the case of Kishore and SPB. If you go through my post, you will find that I specifically mentioned that if one applies this logic, one would reach ‘wrong’ conclusions. That Kishore and SPB are no great shakes as singers is the ‘wrong conclusion’. I hope you got it. I also hope Arghya also got it. For your information, I never tried to belittle Kishore, SPB or any singers here. I have posted my opinions about Kishore’s voice, his style, his vocal range et al, but all those comments were prefixed by ‘in my opinion’, ‘to my ears’ etc. I’m no authority on music and I have always made it clear in my posts, especially when remarking something about Kishore and his singing here in this site.
The Jayachandran incident requires some narration, I shall do it some other time.
The RJ-Rafi-KK and Rafi-SPB-KJY scenarios were meant (only) to show Rafi’s all-round strength. I didn’t try to project that Rafi is greater than Kishore/ SPB because of his ability to do raga-based songs better or Rafi is greater than KJY because he could do fast/light numbers better. I just wanted to say Rafi could do it all and that was an edge he enjoyed. And I wouldn’t dare utter a word against KJY (a singer I adore) even when pitted against Rafi and I am extremely grateful to RJ for introducing KJY’s enormous talent to HFM.
Hope to continue later in the day
March 21st, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Paramjeet,
I don’t suppose you happen to be the owner/ moderator of this site. There are many better ways to release your anger than asking people out of web sites not owned by yourself. Now I have realised (from your posts to Myk and myself) what kind of fellow you are. Please refrain from addressing your posts to me.
Arghya,
Do you seriously think it is the high notes, low notes, alaaps, mukhris et al that makes songs/singing (especially play back stuff) great? I don’t have to tell you where this argument lead into.
March 21st, 2010 at 11:03 am
Myk 1766
1. Discussing RD-KK is irrelevant over here.
2. I don’t discuss anything about Kishoreji and his singing with someone who is utterly dismissive about him. Since you are very dismissive about Kishore, his talent and his singing (as clearly shown from your past posts), I think there is no need to discuss Kishore with you any further. I don’t have any problem with you being dismissive over Kishore, but after that no fruitful discussion can take place as you would never be able to appreciate the points I am drawing to. It is good to be critical as we can carry off a discussion with him, even I am critical to many singers including Kishore, but not dismissive. That is why perhaps fans of Manna De, Ghantashala, SPB all find me a worthy person to discuss music with.
3. Regarding “Likhkar tera naam zameen par” , notes hitting was one of the many points which I had asked you. I asked you about special emoting or superhuman ness in that song as well, which makes you to pit that song against Siva Sankari. Because I can show you half a dozen technical criticality of Siva Sankari and I hope the same reciprocation from you regarding “Likhkar tera naam zameen par” except subjective declarations.
Anil,
My first direct post to you. I have been observing you from a long time and I find you overlook all the misdoings of your colleagues and nitpick comments to argue lamely. Even in Sandip Nadkarni episode, in spite of you knowing pretty well that the person is fake(confirmed to me by one of our common acquaintances who thinks you of very high regard) what you still did in Rafi forum was again overlooking that cheap stunt and create some lame excuses again for such stunts calling me trying to act innocent. Are you afraid to call a spade a spade?
Prabhanjan,
Forget it yaar. There is no point arguing with a person who nitpicks things, overlooks his colleagues’ misdoings, comes to kishore forum and trashes kishore and still wants respect and respectability here as if in Rafi forum they give garlands to a person who goes there and says “Rafi is no great shakes as a singer”…:)
March 21st, 2010 at 8:29 am
Shukla,
If you find my comments funny, I am happy for you. I also find your comments even more funnier, so more power to the both of us. I never claimed the LM song to be as difficult as Siva Sankari, but regardless, any amount of discussion will not prove Ghantasala was a superior singer to Rafi. Thanks for your comments. I hope you admire more of my presentations in the future, if we do happen to come across eachother again, and hope you see the light. Will not respond to the rest of your post as it is the same repetition over again.
Paramjeet, Sastry, Sandeep, I am not going to bother responding to your comments, because they are unwarranted and completely off the mark. You do not understand th crux of my posts, and then accuse me of writing things I never mentioned, which shows the credibility of all of you. The points you have brought up are again a repetiton of the same discussion that has been going on for ages now. The level of discussion is at an all-time low here, with many unwanted remarks (as expected from those who can’t discuss in a civilized manner), and beaten to death. Sastry, you do not know me, so I suggest you refrain from posting comments about my musical knowledge (which you will never attain), or post comments on someone else’s behalf. It would serve you as a lesson for the future. Sastry, the only fool who has made foolish comments here is you. If you don’t agree with what I say, all the more power to you, but your credibility is questionable from your posts. Paramjeet, if you would like to discuss anything at all, I suggest you stop bringing comments from anywhere, and attaching them to certain individuals for your convenience. Also, to all three, stop assuming what my views are or anything related (I dont do the same for you), you do not know me, and if I wish to portray something, I will. I am amused that everytime I write something on this forum, many here become insecure.
Dhani Ram, great post, just goes to show how insecure and jealous some fans of other singers are.
March 20th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
Dhani RAM 1767
LAMBI LAMBI BAATEIN KARNE SE PEHLE MERE KIYE HUE UN SAWALON KA JAWAAB DO.. AUR HUMNE AAPKO YAHAN PE NEUTA DEKE NAHI BULAYE THE, AAP HI AA GAYE THE BIN BULAYE MEHMAAN KI TARAH SAIGAL KI BURAAI KARNE. KISHORE FORUM MEIN AAKE, SAIGAL KI BURAAI KARKE AAP DEMAND KARTE HO RAFIANS KO HUM SIR PE CHARHAKE RAKHE?
PARAMJEET.
March 20th, 2010 at 11:14 pm
Can somebody please check if my previous post is the longest in the history of this thread? LOL
March 20th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Balarykar,
“I understand that you are not going to reply/clarify anymore on the ?Rafi?s fallibility? theory but you expect a reply from me; Am I getting it correct this time?”
I was not expecting a reply from you, and another truth is that the moderators here are so fast that soon the next generation may discuss your and my posts as we are discussing Rafi and other things here
I will try this time to clarify all the things to the best of my ability. If there are shortcomings, please point out them and I WILL clarify them too.
For one thing I don’t believe Rafi had fallibility. However, if and when certain Rafi fans point out the so-called fallibility, short-comings, etc of other singers, and IF similar things are true about Rafi, I will certainly point out them without any hesitation. This is not just for Rafi fans, but for each and every artists fans.
“You want me to see the big picture but what is it? All I see is a list of the so called short-comings of Rafi- that his voice wasn’t any good after the 50s, that he was finished by 1969, that he can’t sing a bhajan anywhere close to the calibre displayed by SPB in a particular song, that he couldn’t sing a semi-classical song after he crossed 45, that he can’t sing a technically difficult song which Yesu Das sang, that he couldn’t displace the top singers of SFM despite singing in South Indian languages etc. If you claim that your attack was aimed at Rafi-fans and not at Rafi himself, then I must say it is an attempt in bad taste.”
I again see that you STRONGLY refuse to look a few posts earlier. Why do you think Dhaniram and Rafifan (or Rafibhakt) can paint K.L. Saigal black and get away with it? You think they have the rights to get away with anything and everything just for the sole reason that they are Rafi fans? If they insist on all the DIVINITY, UNFALLABILITY,etc, yes, I gave back to them what they deserved. You can convinently ignore the short-comings of Rafi. But why? Other singers can be blasted and ripped apart for their short-comings, but not Rafi. DOUBLE-STANDARDS, isn’t it? You want to interpret my reply as “bad taste”, but ignore the disgusting and stinking attempt of Rafi fans. Good luck. What is here for me to clarify?
Further, about your saying “that he can’t sing a bhajan anywhere close to the calibre displayed by SPB in a particular song,”. Its not about one particular song of SPB. That song was in early 70’s. Listen to his recent devotional songs in “Chants for Children” in the 2009 or “Gaali Gaali Nilu”, a devotional song in kannada released in 2008 on Ayyappa. Thats consistency over a period of almost 35 years. I, for one, don’t remember quality devotional songs of Rafi in the 70’s. PLEASE post me the list of quality devotional songs which you think he sang. So, you see how easy its for you to write “calibre displayed by SPB in a particular song” when the fact is over 35 years and hundreds of quality devotional song. Same is also true for Manna De classical songs. I can go on and on.
My overall stand is that Rafi, like all other artists, has limitations and short-comings. This is not the same as saying that I am attacking Rafi. You don’t want to see it this way. Its ok, I have no problems. Whats the big deal if one music fan did not understand me?
“I can very well go to some SPB site and lash out at SPB in the guise of teaching/correcting/ridiculing his fans who think SPB is unmatchable et al (No, I don?t want to use all the fancy terms which you used).”
Sorry Anil! You have already done that. If not at some SPB forum or site, you have done it right here in this very forum. Your exact words: “For instance, let’s have to say that Kishore (with very little ‘on your face’ classical scores in his disography) or SPB (despite a ‘Shankarabharanam’) are no great shakes as singers per se.” You don’t have to go to SPB forum, you already did say that Kishore is no great shake as singer per se. If you can criticize Kishore Kumar for his short-comings in a forum exclusively dedicated to him, you should rather expect that your favorite singer will be blasted here, and deservingly so. And if you or other fans say that KK is not great shake, then why are you having problems with me and others who use those very yardsticks in pointing out Rafi short-comings is really beyond me.
“If you still think you haven’t posted anything against Rafi, then I think I haven’t yet learned what ‘against’ exactly means.”
I am certainly convinced that you have not learned that.
“You didn’t answer me directly, you simply bounced some of my questions back. I asked you whether you think Rafi is just another singer with no edge over his compatriots, you replied me something like Rafi fans think Rafi is the best in everything.”
Let me answer directly. Rafi did have many edge (advantages) over many of his compatriots. I will also give the overall edge to Rafi only. The problem only starts when this very edge is used to put down other singers. Not just singers, even music directors, lyricists, co-artists, actors, and many others have been belittled by very many Rafi fans at mohdrafi.com and here.
Let me also clarify one more thing. It does not matter wether Rafi fans think “Rafi is the best in everything” or I think, or you think this way. The fact is “Rafi was NOT the best in everything”.
“I asked you to find out the Jayachandran- M G Sreekumar incident in Malayalam film industry and draw parallel in the HFM post ‘69. You replied something like the quality of music in that particular phase was worse but it was even worse in the late ’70s.”
I tried to google about that but did not get much information. You can post that incident here for the benefit of one and all. About drawing the parallel to post 69, I can’t do that as I don’t know the incident. Now about quality of music in 70’s, etc. So many times KK fans are taunted that the early 70’s quality fades in comparison with 50’s and 60’s and hence KK take over is not great. However, when KK fans point back that the late 70’s of Rafi return is even less than magnificient than early 70’s, they form the so-called UAR club. Right?
“I asked you why Ravindra Jain went to Rafi for the technically difficult song and not Kishore and you responded that Ravindra Jain and other MDs didn’t give Rafi any semi-classical songs in the ’70s.”
You want to say that as a whole lets interpret RJ giving technically difficult songs to Rafi over KK as Rafi having edge over KK in this genre. This is the scenario when KJY was not on the scene. However, that very same RJ choosing KJY over Rafi in that very same genre can’t be interpreted as Rafi being less good than KJY. Why again different standard? The gist of my giving this example was that “Don’t interpret Rafi as less better than KJY in a genre coz of numbers, and similarly don’t overproject as KK as an incapable singer of classical songs”. Now who got the wrong meaning is for everybody to see.
“I asked you why the MDs of the South went for SPB in fast songs and Yesu Das in semi-classical songs (generally) while in HFM, the MDs went for Rafi in both types. I don’t exactly remember what your response was, but it was more of a commentary on human psyche than a direct answer.”
First things first here. The number of semi-classical songs of SPB far outnumber Rafi’s numbers, and also over period of time. In kannada, telugu, and tamil the variety of songs that SPB has rendered is too much to be measured. I am now convinced that you have not really listened to SPB at all.
Yesudas may not have been given fast numbers by the MDs. But this can hardly be interpreted as Yesudas shortcoming.
Yes, Rafi was also too too great to be put down in any area. However, don’t use this edge to belittle others.
“You want me to answer why Rafi’s voice deteriorated in the ’70s. I can’t do it since I don’t see any point in doing so. I think your entire line of argument doesn’t make much sense.”
I am not asking you explain why his voice deteriorated. I am asking you to ADMIT it did happen. If you don’t admit it, you can live in denial. No problems.
“Rafi fans think Rafi is unmatched. So if it can be proved that the Rafi voice fell anytime, then Rafi fans can be brought to their knees is a pretty illogical line of argument.”
No problems if Rafi fans think he is unmatched. In fact, they have a right to their love. No, I have no such intention of brining them on their knees. Why should I? I don’t see it logical to put myself on my knees in the public, you see
What I don’t understand though is living in denial. As a Rafi fan myself, its not a shame for me if his voice fell at some point. It had to happen, and it happened.
“For one thing, most of the Rafi fans don’t think Rafi is perfect in everything. Rather it is the fans of some other singers who hold this opinion about their favorites (if in doubt refer to post 1735). For the majority of Rafi fans, Rafi is great in ‘most’ of the aspects of light and moderately classical songs and his voice is the best they have listened to. That’s it.”
I completely agree with this part of your reply, though I will ask you to go through post 1735 again
“There may be some Rafi fans who think Rafi is the best in every aspect of singing but then you will find more such fellas among fans of other singers. Your strong sentences like ‘Rafi fans think no other singer should be allowed to sing’ can draw a lot of applause from the UAR crowd but it is just not true with the majority of Rafi fans.”
See, we are looking things differently. The people who have directly applaused are more of music fans than X or Y artist.
From my survey of online forums “more such fellas” are Rafi fans. This has nothing to do with Rafi. Its just that there may be more Rafi fans, or it may be even my own wrong sample/inference.
“I have recently seen a video where Anand (of Anand-Milind duo) says something like he switches his radio off immediately after listening to a Rafi sahab song since he doesn’t want to listen to anyone else after listening to Rafi sahab. Will you include this MD under the category of Rafi fans you labelled under a fancy title.”
I just appreciate Anand idolizing Rafi. I don’t see what wrong he is doing there. Did he say that if any artists song is playing on the radio, he turns it off as its not Rafi? Do you seriously and religiously accept what he said? You see, he would definitely listen his own composed songs on radio which were never rendered by Rafi
Further I can tell you for sure if the RJ (radio jockey and not Ravindra Jain, lol) announced earlier “Chand mera dil chandni ho tum” will be followed by “Aake teri bahon mein”, he won’t turn the radio off. And please don’t label Anand in the UAR group then
“Rafi fans simply believe their idol is in a class of his own and they have a right to believe so. They are better left untouched, after all they rarely venture into abusing great artists (unlike the fans of some other singers) or nit picking their short comings (real or imaginary).”
Rafi is better left untouched, and not necessarily Rafi fans. Moreover, if you have forgotten, just in case, this is not mohdrafi.com, its yoodleeyoo.com. Now, come on Anil, how can you say that after Dhaniram painted Saigal black, yourself say that KK is not a great shake as a singer per se, Rafifan/bhakt, all say these things, that Rafi fans rarely venture?
“Just wanted to clarify a couple of points (this might be news for you).
The Anuradha Paudwal story has another twist which you didn’t mention. This singer was the undisputed leader even before her association with T-series. The “Dil” incident happened in 1990 and there was no question of re-creating Anuradha since she was already ahead of the pack you mentioned.”
I seriously doubt your understanding of the 90’s scenario. There was not one single dominating singer, either male or female, before 1990. Before T-series happened, Alka Yagnik had huge hits like Tezaab, Tridev and QSQT. Anuradha had none of this magnitude, and not even major hits of Kavitha Krishnamurthy’s like Mr.India. For sure Anuradha Paudwal was not the undisputed leader. I used the word “recreating” coz she was a lot earlier in the play.
“After this notorious incident, the industry (I mean the HFM and not the T-series) decided to ban her and that’s how she lost out. Anuradha Paudwal was not made by T-series, she came up on her own and it was the ban that finished her off.”
Seriously, the kind of monopoly T-series and Anuradha Paudwal deserved to be isolated and marginalised. The way T-series out-destroyed the trio-female singers is unthinkable of. If you listen to many of the T-series albums during 90-92, so many male solo’s were converted into duets for the sole purpose of printing on the cassettes “All songs sung by Anuradha Paudwal”. Further, this also validates my thinking that the true talent, like Rafi’s, can’t be dominated even by the industry.
“This one is about Ravindra Jain and his opinion about Rafi sahab. This MD had planned a Rafi-Yesu Das duet which didn’t materialise. At the discussion stage he told Yesu Das- ‘let people watch Ganga and Jamuna flowing together’.”
Its unfortunate that we can’t watch that flow ever again
“I have several reservations about your lists; I can explain them if you are interested.”
I have nothing to say here.
To conclude, I have to add two things. If in my reply to the shamenatics, I have hurt any true music/Rafi fans, I am sorry for that. To be as honest as possible, I was seriously and genuinely upset that even the great K.L. Saigal was belittled by some of the shamenatics. However great and versatile their idols maybe, nothing can change that Saigal is the father of the HFM. You just can’t put your idol there. Its laughable, but pathetically that was exactly what was attempted. My response would have been the same irrespective of wether they were Rafi fans or even Kishore fans. Peace.
Anil, your entire reply to me reminds me of a two year old instance. Remember Pete Sampras community. Remember that oxymoron moderator Rafa~ready who very unfairly deleted Thought Crimes invaluable posts. When we raised those problems, it was not Rafa~ready who was removed from the post of moderator, rather we were unnecessarily warned there. I do remember your indirect support to Rafa~ready, and your soft-corner for him when he would whine in your scrap book. Consequently, many tennis fans around those time never ever returned to the community. Tia has not posted even once since then. If only you had stood against the egoholic moron, we would still be in the community. At the least we would not have felt bad that you did not support that oxymoron guy. But that was not to be the case. Same thing is happening now. Not even in a single post of yours here, you have criticized Dhaniram or Rafibhakt directly. Instead, you have been continously and unabatedly nit-picking my points posted against them and not against Rafi. Like two years back, even today, you can’t criticize the morons. I would still clarify any points you were to ask. Bye.