An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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May 20th, 2007 at 9:23 am
For a person who grew up listening vividh bharti for hours daily(due to dad’s profession as a voice artiste) i had listened to all rafi sahab,mukesh and kishoreda at a very early age. And till this day i have never wavered from my opinion tht Kishoreda was the best not only among his peers but also across all generations..
Such was the power of kishoreda’s singing tht at the age of 5 years i had memorized most of his songs,first one being “Roop tera mastana”..
Agreed he didnt get ne formal training and tht makes him even more special and beyond compare.
And if doubts still persist then ppl plz listen to “roop tera mastana”,”dil kya kare”,”o mere dil ke chain”,”wada tera wada”,”meri bheegi bheegi si” to name a few and u shall b enlightened .. !!
kishore da lives forever
May 20th, 2007 at 4:20 am
Hi myk, I really appreciate your knowledge of musicians. I’ve seen both Kersi Lord and Bhupi on stage. I’ve also seen Manohari Singh (of Basu-Manohari fame), probably the best sax player of all time. The sax sounds you hear in the Guide songs are all from that man. It’s reported that Salil brought him from Kolkata and then he became a regular in the SD camp (I think he played the flute in Salil’s classic “O sajna barkha bahar aayee”). Always used to accompany RD along with Kersi for concerts. Manohari also played for OP in quite a few songs, the most memorable being Rafi’s “Hai duniya usiki zamana usika” from Kashmir ki Kali. But I am curious to find out who played the flute in Rafi’s “Dil ka bhanwar kare pukar”; sounds like Manohari but can’t be fully sure. Our Chhote Nawab played the mouth organ for the Dosti songs, and Kolkata’s Milan Gupta played it for the background score.
May 20th, 2007 at 12:45 am
Jayanta,
Please do not distort facts, I have read your posts, many of the facts are totally opposite of the truth. Let’s take your points one by one:
You mention KK’s second liking in the 50’s and 60’s was to sing. Can you tell me why Kishore came to Mumbai in the first place ?. He came to be a singer, he wanted to sing, that was his passion, he is admitted that many a times in his interviews. He only got into acting because he could not receive a break in singing, no MD besides SDB was willing to give him a chance. He did not come to Mumbai to become an actor, if he wanted to become an actor he probably would have stayed in Khandwa.
If you read what I stated earlier, I had mentioned that if MD’s like OPN and SJ etc. took him, is due to his own films, not for any other actor. The only actor he playbacked for outside of himself at that time was Dev Anand. This is majority of the times, he may have sung for RK or others earlier on but most of the time it was Dev and under SDB. He did not voluntarily choose to act, nor did he take himself out of the race, he was forced to, and even if he was in the race, he would not stand a chance to Rafi at that time. You mention how MD’s like Salil used him, again please check if Kishore is acting in the film himself and you will come to your answer. Early on in the 50’s composers like Roshan and CR may have taken him, but for very few songs, he was hardly considered a top notch singer in the 50’s and 60’s.
By the way, if you knew about Kishore’s films, you would not be asking me how much I know. A good number of KK’s films did not do well even though he may have acted with top grade heroines in some of his films, most were B-grade ventures.
The problem with some people is that instead of acknowledging the truth, they mix Kishore’s acting with him not getting a break to sing. The argument put forward is because KK could not compete with Rafi or Mukesh etc. in the 50’s and 60’s is because he chose to act. Now why would he choose to act if he came to Mumbai to become a singer ?. Please do answer that question. Also, why did Kishore want to go back to his home town in the late 60’s ?. The reason is because he was not getting a chance to sing in films the way he wanted to. Please do not distort facts, nor make up excuses such as KK was busy with acting etc. Yes he was busy, because he wasn’t getting a break to sing and its purely logical and not illogical as you pointed out. The more you try to defend Kishore in the 50’s and 60’s, the more off track it gets.
Coming to your point about majority of MD’s using KK in the 70’s. Let’s pinpoint it one by one. LP mostly used Rafi and yet still used Kishore, KA made a balance, Rajesh Roshan maintained a balance, for Usha Khanna, Madan Mohan and Ravi it was Rafi more than KK, for newcomers such as Mandhir Jatin, Manas Mukherjee, Anu Malik, they all went to Rafi before they eventually moved on to Kishore because Rafi passed away. The only MD’s tht favoured KK were the Burmans and Bappi Lahiri, and that is understandable. Ravindra Jain you could say maintained a balance although Rafi and Yesudas were his favourites. So now tell me who are the majority of MD’s that used KK in the 70’s ?.
Mind you, Kishore was the most successful for about four years in the 70’s, other than that you could say it was even between Rafi and KK, with Rafi having more success in the latter part of the decade, especially 79 and 80. Check out the Binaca Geetmala Records, from 79-81 it was totally Rafi everywhere, no sight of any other singer on the radio, the comeback was complete and in full gear until Khuda took him away from us.
The real impact of Kishore getting far away from every singer including Rafi in the brief period was because Rafi did not sing for 8 months in 1971. Ofcourse Kishore’s time had come, and this does not take away from his talent as a singer, but it was not Aradhana that did the trick, it was the absence or leave which was the main reason.
Mr. Haldar,
What are your views on Rafi in the 70’s ?. I think he had many great songs during this period. It is the media that creates myths that he was not up to the mark, leaving aside the 77-80 period how about 70-76, he had many great songs in this time.
Ironically, many of RD’s best songs during the 70’s are by Rafi, Churaliya Hai Tumne, Kya Hua Tera Vaada, Maine Poocha Chand Se, Gulaabi Aankhen and the list can go on.
May 19th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Only a couple of people say KK is popular, but 90% praise Rafi Saheb only on this KK site! Very strange but true!!
May 19th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Though Md. Rafi was a great singer, but when the question comes who is the best male playback singer, it is only Kishoreda who rules the first position. There are many great male singers such as Md. Rafi, Manna Dey, Mukesh & many more but in the field of playback Kishoreda is simply brilliant whose voice befits each & every individual & holds a much higher position than the rest. A voice which is still rocking in the minds of this generation, a voice which can be moulded to any type according to need of the song, a voice which carries all the emotions with it from the depth of the heart & touches the same……….It is one & only Kishoreda’s voice which stands much ahead of the others. He is simply the best out of the best.
May 19th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Undoubtedly,Kishoreda is the greatest singer of all times,much much more popular than Rafi.LONG LIVE KISHORE KUMAR THE GREATEST GENIUS.
May 19th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Mohammed Rafi Saheb is the best singer, no one can be compared to this legend, KK was just ok.
May 19th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
three points here.
1. I agree with you Mehtabh ji and we ought to SALUTE RAFI AND
KISHORE DA for their contributions.
2. Zeenath : Yesudas is the finest singer after Rafi saab. Have met
him couple of times. He failed in the diction part in most of the
songs except Chitchor and Rajnigandha where the composers
brought out the best in him. Pl. compare his diction with Rafi
who was the finest in the business. Yesudas considers Rafi
saab as his guru and the best -like 98% KERALITES.
3. THIS topic discussion got the best and maximum INPUTS.
Can we now STOP THIS BUSINESS OF COMPARISON between
two great singers. And , if at all can we all have a healthy
discussion and respect the singers of YORE…
May 19th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Respected Music Lovers, Namaskar!
I want to tell the so-called fans of Kishore Da that Kishore Da had displayed only one photograph in his bungalow. The photograph was none other than the Great Mohd. Rafi. Another fact that Mohd. Rafi sahib was used to address Kishore Da as a tiger. According to Rafi Sahib that Kishore Da had such natural God-given grains in his throat that couldn’t be imitated. So please, all the music lovers should keep normalcy in their minds. Please shut-off this debate. Your claims shall never reach anywhere. Be brave and be prudent also. Please accept my humble appeal.
–MEHTAB, Chandigarh (India) +919815703226, E-mail : mehtabmasih@yahoo.co.in
May 19th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
RDB Kk folp..cuumon u must be joking!…and rdb’s talent wasted!..sdb’s son wasted everythng?..are u living in this wolrd??..really???
a music director after performing and producing immense hits and going thorugh ahell lot of success is bound to get bogged down sometimes..no greta ppl can remain at the top all the time..sumtimes or the other they are ound to go through the linear patch!..wich rdb did during the 80’s..still folowed it with hitsloke heralal pannalal…sitamgar etc etc!
kk extended version of shailendra?..tell me how much do u know at shailendra!…u hv no idea at all!..kk rules forever…rafi was brillant during the 60’s…but y dont u answer the straight forward question y most of the mds prefferred kk to rafu dirung the 70’s,…and y kk got more success thanr afi durign the 70’s??….kk was more of an actor..than a singer during the 50’s..and 60’s..lot of hit films accompanied by some b-grade films were there…yet singing was his second liking..and everyone eventhe greats lata,.asha..manna,sdb..to big b ..everyone has admitted that..and the interviews of which i have!…so thats cleared!
myk..dont get biaed..b/w..y r u hiding ur name???…anyways..rafi cant reach the heights kk reached during the 70s’..and still now!..
how much do u know abt kk’s films and hits dueing the 70’s..tell me?…and u toldthat only sdb was instrumental in letting kk to sing his sogs and no one else…not at all!..even SC,Ramchandra..o.p.nayyar,sc used kk often but to a lesser extent than rafi!…that fact that no mds other than sdb preffered kkduring the 60s'’,is absoultely illogical..try to get ur facts clear!
y not rafi fans acept the fact tha rafi was at the top during the 60’s..but lost out to kishore during the 70s!
May 19th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Jayanta, I’m not going to discuss the MM-Rafi combo here because that requires a special set of ears. I’ve maintained time and again that RD-KK was a special combination; they were made for one another. What I objected to was what you said about MM switching more and more to Kishore. The truth is that MM never switched. Just a couple of songs here and there for Kishore does not mean much. Rafi sang more than 100 songs for your loRD, but we can still ignore them. For Rafi, take out Naushad and SJ, you’ll have SD and OP. Take all these four out, you will still have Madan Mohan and LP. Take all these six out, you’ll have Roshan and KA. Now let’s focus only on SD; I know the media keeps talking about SD-Kishore all the time. They produced some wonderful tunes, no doubt about it. But are you sure that SD-KK was better than SD-Rafi? I’ll just list 10 compositions of SD for Rafi and I’ll let you judge for yourself.
1. Yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaye to kya hai (Pyasa)
2. Jinhe naaz hai Hind par o kahan hai (Pyasa)
3. Dekhi zamane ki yaari (Kagaz ke Phool)
4. Hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare chale gaye (Kala Pani)
5. Saathi na koi manzil (Bambai ka Babu)
6. Dil ka bhanwar kare pukar (Tere Ghar ke Samne)
7. Nache man more magan dhikna dhiki dhiki (Meri Surat Teri Aankhen)
8. Din dhal jaye (Guide)
9. Tere mere sapne (Guide)
10. Mera man tera pyasa (Gambler)
I can list 10 more but for the time being these should suffice. Why Kishore, has any singer sung such a variety of high-class songs for any composer? If you want ghazals, select nos. 4 and 8. If you want soft romantic songs, select 9 and 10. If you want an intoxicating feel with the voice melting into the sound of a flute, select 6. If you are in the mood for a classical song, select 7; the tabla accompaniment was by Pt. Santa Prasad and you’ll find out how Rafi’s voice deftly does jugalbandi with the tabla. If you are in a blue mood, listen to 4 and 5. If you want songs that no other singer dare tread, select 1, 2 or 3. And I haven’t even listed “Khoya khoya chand”, the song that gave Dev his debonair image. Also, I haven’t included the numerous duets Rafi sung with Lata, Geeta and Asha, an art that the old man specialized in. But I’d recommend one from MSTA: Tere bina sooni nayan hamare.
As regards classical songs, you are wrong about Manna being better than Rafi. In my ranking I would put Manna a close second, followed by Lata and Asha. Remember “Madhuban mein radhika nache re,” the most celebrated classical song from Hindi films? How about “Man tadpat hari darshan ko aaj”, the best exposition of Malkhauns to date? If you like SJ, try “Radhike tu ne bansri churayi”. This song for whatever reason didn’t get the fame it deserved; it’s a wonderful composition and see how easily Rafi glides through the difficult notes and still maintains his vocal quality. If you like OP, try “Anchal mein saja lena kaliya”; this song took even someone of the stature of Bade Ghulam Ali Khan by surprise. And if you ever heard Rafi at a concert singing “O duniya ke raakhwale” you’d have marvelled at how he used to deliver the “Mahal udas aur galiya sooni” part; I call this a song within a song, composed by Rafi himself to hit your heart with such a force that tears will come out in a second.
Rafi is the “ustadon ke ustad”. Sudhu sudhu torko kore ki laabh?
May 19th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
have seen only a few of the above comments. Did not feel like going through the rest. NO COMMENTS as far as the Versus thing is concerned. Rafi is RAFI and Kishore is KISHORE. We enjoy songs by both these singers. Let us not compare.
May 19th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Jayanta:
You said: “dont get biased…do u mean to say that rafi-mm combo was superior than rkk-sdb or kk-rd???…no chance…the latest two combo wins anyday man!!”
–I will not compare rafi-mm versus kk-sdb. I will compare kk-sdb with rafi-sdb only. For every kk-sdb good song I will mention 2 rafi-sdb great numbers. It is a challenge.
–Secondly, why are we quoting bogus orkut or 99% junta numbers. There are similar bogus numbers in favour of Rafi too (http://www.tezaa.com/view/kishore_kumar_vs_mohammed_rafi_who_is_a_better_singer)
–Why are we debating?? The musical PUNDITS of Outlook India have already spelt out the verdict. Some of the judges included Kishore loyalists like Sanu, Abhijeet as well. In the same poll, 5 out of top 20 songs of all time were Rafi’s..And Rafi did not have to resort to publicity frills and gizmos like “eccentric genius” blah, blah to earn that…
May 19th, 2007 at 5:55 am
Adding to P. Halder’s list with my favorite Rafi-MM songs:
8. Main nigahen tere chehre se hatayoon kaise (Aap Ki parchhaiyan)
9. Kiski Yaad mein duniya ko hai bhulaye huye (Jahan Ara)
10. Baad Muddat ke yeh ghadi (Jahan Ara)
11. Barbad-E-Mohabbat Ki Dua (Laila Majnu)
12. Zameen se humen aasman tak (Adalat)
I also like the “Neela Akaash” songs, but they will be second rung.
I think the Haqeeqat quadret “Hoke Majboor Mujhe” is a glaring proof of why Rafi was way above others. Each of the other singers (Manna, Talat and Bhupinder) were great in their own right but the singer who stands out is Rafi.
May 19th, 2007 at 12:55 am
there is no point in making comparison between rafi and kk.rafi is very much ahead with his superb songs. kk is an extended version of the likes of sailendra singh.but rafi was/is constant.if at all a comparisin is possible it should be between rafi and the great jesudas,who possess asweet and clear voice.he himself is the greatest rafi fan.when hearing some of his songs i am forced to think that even rafi could not sing like that.we can even identify the actor by listening to his song.a great real play back singer.his hindi songs are suprb.inthe midst of battle between rafi fans and kkfans everybody willfully ignores him only because he is not a hindi singer
May 19th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Dear Debjyoti
if u ask people from KK family they will never say 99% that KK is batter than Mohd Rafi,I think u r mixing between mohd Rafi and KK!!!!! or u will nevrt that,if u as Amit Kummar he will never say that.
PLZ GIVE ONE BIG NAME WHO SAID THST HE BECAME FAMOUS BOZ OF KK,~
plz anwer as u been asked?
May 19th, 2007 at 12:25 am
Respected Music Lovers,
I salute all of you. But it is the matter of great sorrow that when Rafi Sahib and Kishore Da is still singing together “Bane Chahe Dushman Zamana Hamara, Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara” then why we are wasting our time on this baseless debate. Both these singers were/are the greatest. However, Rafi sahib was the Senior to Kishore Da, it is the ground reality. Senior always remains senior. We should pay only homage or tributes to such artists and we should not bring forward our own egos on the behest of these great playback singers. We must make happy the souls of these departed pillar singers of the Bollywood. Please don’t be fool thyselves. Such type of discussion ‘ll not bear any fruits.
We should say Rafi Sahib Zindabad, Kishore Da Zindabad. That’s all.
–MEHTAB, Chandigarh (India) +919815703226, E-mail : mehtabmasih@yahoo.co.in
May 18th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Hello Debjyoti, ask any common people and experts, 99% will say you have no knowledge of music……….
May 18th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Very true Mr. P. Haldar, I agree cent percent with you.
May 18th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Also, the theory that KK decided to “voluntarily” choose acting instead of singing is hilarious. Kishore could not get a big break in the 50’s which is why he resorted to concentrate on acting. The only MD who stood by him at this time was SDB and if he did sing for others it was in his own films (eg. SJ films, Shararat, New Dehli etc.). In the late sixties he was about to go back home when RD told him to stay, as said by RD in one of his Jamaila interviews, and the rest is history. After that he showed that he was a great singer. This has nothing to do with him concentrating on singing after and concentrating on acting before, the theory holds no water, and is bogus to say the least. Kishore was a very talented singer, but to compare him to Rafi is not a fair comparision, Rafi can only be compared with himself.
P. Haldar, “Tum Jo Mil Gaye Ho” is a masterpiece, it is said that after the song Rafi complimented Kersi Lord on the arrangements he did for this composition, the guitar was played by Bhupinder, both the musicians were regulars in the RDB camp.
May 18th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Rightly said Mr. Halder .
S.D. BURMAN THE old patriarch was a gem of a composer. His
son ruined music to a great extent AFTER SHOWING GREAT
P R O M I S E.
His films failed by the dozen and he hit the bottle and also
lost big banner films.
What RDB was trying to prove? A GREAT TALENT WASTED…..
Why was he against ROFI who was less than 50 years when
RDB came galloping. How many MUSIC LOVERS RDB
ALIENATE - by not taking RAFI VOCALS.
Did success go into his head or were his limitations exposed by
the great compositions of Laxmikant Pyarelal and Kalyanji
Anandji team….
Were music lovers tired of the repetitive stuff doled out by
Kishore - Asha duo , RDB S main singers?
Did the MANGESHKARS PUSH RAFI SAAB TO THE WALL as
inside reports say due to RAFIS diferences with Lata over the
royalty issues…
R.D.B DID BRING BACK RAFI DUE TO MARKET REASONS IN
THE LATE SEVENTIES….. WITH great results.
So the question is : How many lovely numbers music lovers
lost from the great RDB-RAFI stable in the early seventies
binu binus2000@hotmail.com
May 18th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
JUST LISTEN TO TUM BIN JAAON KAHAN KE DUNIYA ME AAKE…..
ANY QUESTIONS??
May 18th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
I dont need to list down songs list to increase by post lenght sir, because everyone knows that kk had given a huge no. ofhits compared to very few of rafi’s during the 70’s, where the former completely outsmashed the latter.
You got me wrong…i m not distorting fatcs..its u who is trying to do so..and also biasing others..i implied mm used kk moe often than he did during the 60’s, (remeber mm has given some great gems for kk to render them during the 50’s..if u want them i may list down), but i m notcomparing the same percentage of songs or hits which kk produced out of mm as compared to rafi…itsthe nature of the songs and how beautifully kk sang the no.s is to be kept in mind!…and even rafihad a competition earleir as he had to fight out with mana and talat during the early periods to cement his position!.rafi is a brilliant singer no doubt about that..but somehow manna dey is far ahead of him if classical singing is concerned!
and for your info, Rd-kk will never fall behind no matter what hits of rafi u mention and under which md…its more or less a super combo which rocked the HFM during the 70’s and after that…the pair produced some real magical nos which no one except rd could have composed..and which no one other than kk could have sung!.
u go all facts wrong..and u r trying to do coctail sd with rd’s method of singing arangement!…sd used to bring folk song tunes most times into his songs which were great..and rd westernised the environment which was pretty successfull!…and for your info…sdb has used kk the most arnd 120 songs as compared to rafi-sd ’s 90 odd!..and most of them came from dev anand movies..!..and abt rafi..i fel he is a bit underated thats all..
MM more or less alone was loyal to rafi right throughout..yet he had to give kk some of his best compositions…like that in parwana ’simti si sharmayi si’…the film also had a rafi-kk duet..and yet like most rafi–kk duets..its kk who excelled over rafi!
dont get biased…do u mean to say that rafi-mm combo was superior than rkk-sdb or kk-rd???…no chance…the latest two combo wins anyday man!!
May 18th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
well kishoreda is the best singer beyond the shadow of any doubt!!!!!!
May 18th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Correction (2nd last sentence, first paragraph of my previous email):
I meant:
But why say MM used Kishore more?