An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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November 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Mr ??????
As ur name suggest, your knowlege also has ??????.
There are few rafians who spread this kind of news. True music lover know the truth.
Ask pyearelal. MD of “Haathi mere saathi’, he will tell u truth, don;t fabricate stories.
Mr DARKTRANCE-7,
FYI..
Kishore had only four idols in life. K.L. Saigal; Marlon Brando; Boris Karloff; and Topol of Fiddler. And who is sonu nigam, he grown up singing Rafi;s songs becuase his voice is very near to rafi….Sonu is good singer, but always predictbale like Rafi.
Pls. don’t give example of sonu nigam….Where he is? Hardly he is getting songs in HIndi..He is concentrating on south indian songs.
November 1st, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Dear friends,
I like rafi but I love Kishore the most. Since my childhood I used to feel that had a number of songs been sung by Kishore rather than Rafi they would have sounded better e.g. kya hua tera vada, chura liya hai tumne jo dil ko, teri galiyon me na rakhange kadam, and many more.
I think that the music directors, who used rafi’s vioce on Amitabh & Rajesh Khanna instead of Kishore’s, have committed a crime.
November 1st, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Well all I can say, this debate has lasted this long is due to the fact that kishore and Rafi are recognized to such a level of discussion is evident enough to show they are both just as great. When it comes to -Who was the greatest Bollywood entertainer?, then without a shadow of a doubt for me it was Kishore da!
I’ve been listening to bollywood songs for the past 28yrs, from 50’s to present day. I have a very huge collection into thousands of songs from various singers. My favourite two are Rafi & Kishore. I have listened to all genres as my taste is very varied, but as an “honest observation” we have had many great singers of different styles but if I had to pick one singer who is measured upon attempting singing in more different styles and delievering “HITS” in these styles e.g., from Classical, Bajhans, Ghazals, folk, Qawalli, Religious Devotional both “Hindu” & “Muslim”, Sentimental, happy, children orientated, Rock & Roll, Disco, Popular, different indian languages PLUS English, French, Dutch, Russian, konkoni & lots more!, there is ONLY ONE SINGER TO DATE - RAFI SAAB!!!!!!!!!! Even Sonu Nigaam had mentioned this in his recent Rafi Tribute shows. Sonu had even stated that Rafi being a Muslim had private albums singing Hindu Devotionals songs which were rendered better, name one Hindu male or even female who has done a private muslim devotional album?? Please! prove me wrong!.
Despite Kishore being one of our greatest singers BUT even he himself did not reach the extended level as Rafi did, don’t believe me then Research for yourself, the facts are out there! Kishore da himself stated he was Rafi’s number one fan! He would always “often” render a Rafi number in his shows. Both singers had the greatest respect for each other and they were the bestest of friends!
At the end of the day despite who’s greater its all to do with reflecting on personal taste that suits “their” listening tastes which is fair enough! Personally I really love Kishore’s voice along with some Mukesh, Manna Dey numbers, etc..
Interesting that despite of today’s studio technology - today’s singers cannot match the level of quality of singers of the golden area! But I have to say today’s singers do make a good effort!
October 30th, 2008 at 10:00 am
for respected freind mohsin
yaar aap last 60 ki baat kar rahe ho songs tou bata detey bhai taez gana jo aap ne kaha shishi kapoor par aik song hai mere khayal main movie hai jab jab phool khiley us ka song affo khuda itna taez song kabhi kishore ne nahin gaya mean taez main bhi rafi better aap kabhi other singer ke comments parho jaise lata asha manna dey mukesh etc n even kishore accept that rafi is best
October 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am
i dont want to hurt fans of kishore no doubt he was a good singer but i want to ask only one question to all kishore fans that they really know the true story of song “tu is tarah se meri zindagi main shaamil hai jahan bhi jaon ye lagta hai teri mehfil hai” sung by rafi and also in movie “HAATHI MERE SAATHI” song was nafrat ki duniya ko chor kar pyar ki duniya main khush rehna mere yaar..
both songs sung by mohd. rafi bcoz the fact that all knows kk aur any other singer cant sing n in movie hathi mere sathi kk excuse to sing this song n song tu is tarha nobody accept the chanllenge to sing.
i said i dont want to hurt..n one more thing we are fans how i judge these 2 great singer the real big classical ustad can judge who is better for example student of 2 class cant check the level of 8 i thing u people understand
thanxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
October 28th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Hi writer.
Your article was a great article and there was no place for another comments.
Now you leave these mad people to fight among themselves. What I knpw that Kishore and Rafi both were the sides of the same coin and they knew it very well.
For these madies I can only say go and listen again again the large number of songs they sang together. If there was a single doubt about love between these two they could not share the ungorgettable duets together. For these madies there is one line of their song “na bichre gey mar ke bhi hum dosto” is enough.
Aashoo
Who listen Rafi and Kishore in one go
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Mr Saher,
It was kishore’s modesty that he spoke good things abt Rafi.
His fav. was never Rafi. He adore 4 personlities.. I have already published in this site.
Rafi said in his interview that “Noone could have sung like kishore ‘ Dukhi man mere’”.
It was people greatness who always says good things abt other legends.
For e.g. Amitabh, he always praise Shahrukh as best actor. Is it true?
I am sure you will accept this..
Vipul bhai…Phir wohi baat.
Kishore was best “entertainer” in our film industry. Rafi is not a 1% of kishore on the stage..
October 20th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
kishore kumar have a energetic voice and he is really a actual and one of the greatest play back singer who sings all kind of songs.
farrukh salim
October 14th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Just serach on youtube for kk’s 5 LIVE performances randomly and take Rafi’s 5 live performances.
Listen to them with open heart and then decide who is the best.
I am sure your answer will match mine.. as kk comes nowhere close to RAFI. RAFI IS FAR BETTER THAN KK.
October 10th, 2008 at 12:53 am
The question that u asked,,,,was asked by a press reporter to kishore kumar,,, u know what kishore answered then,,,,he said if the reporter knew music,,,there is none in this world that can be compared with Rafi he is was and will remain best,,,,,and never ever compare him with anyone not even lata………..
well its Kishore kumar`s modesty and also his understanding of music that he always consider Rafi sahab best singer as now a days every music director conmcider Rehman sahab best,,,,,as himesh reshamiya said 1 to 10 is Rehman sahab then come we all……
Both are good or can be called best,,,,but what a personality Rafi sahab had a saintly personality that divinity is always mirrored in his voice,,,,,,
October 2nd, 2008 at 4:45 pm
HI,
MEIN SAMJTa hun ke kishore agar flim industry mein as a play back na hota to india kay music ka koi hal na hota rafi sahib kay jo fan hain wo ye nai samjte jab rafi sahib kishore ki waja se flop ho gay thay in last 60 to wo bhi kishore ki nakal main taiz ganay lag gai tha kishore kishore aa
September 27th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
kishoreda’s songs transports me into a world of eternity.
September 11th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Beautiful discussion. I don’t believe in comparisons, and hence won’t indulge in them.
However, for any true Rafi fan, his real gems were between 40’s and 60’s. Definetely, the quality of music as whole in the 70’s was mediocre, to say the least. I am not a fan of the 70’s music at all, and I am very proud to say that I loved the 50’s and 60’s music. Rafi was at his peak, and honestly, many of Kishore’s gems were also in this era (debatable, of course).
Coming to Rafi, I have to add two songs of his which I think have not been mentioned earlier. For me, a great singer is one whose voice can be listened NAKED. By this I mean, it should be purely his voice without any pinch of music. Just lyrics, and the singer (surely, MD is involved). One such song of Rafi is from Pyaasa. It is “Tang aa chuke hai kashmakashe zindagi se hum”. The beauty of this song is there is not any music played in the background. When ever I listen to this song, its DEPRESSION PERSONIFIED. Its easy to reflect “Sadness” in a voice, but its very difficult to express “depression”. Surprisingly, this song is hardly mentioned when Pyasa is remembered. The songs from this movie which are more remembered are Ye Duniya agar mil bhi jaaye to kya hai and Kahan hai, Kahan hai.
Another gem of Rafi is from Baiju Bawra. Again, I am not mentioning O Duniya ke rakhwale, or Tu Ganga ki mauj. The song which i like the most from this classic is “Man tarpat hari darshan ko aaj”. The beauty of this song is its rendition. Rafi does not sings words here, he sings letters. Listen carefully, He sings like “ma-na- ta-ra-pat ha-ri da-ra-sh-an ko aaj”. Its like he is walking on the water, or waves are coming out of his voice. Thats beauty in motion.
Finally, another gem of Rafi is from Raj Kapoor’s AWARA. Now, many may say “There is no Rafi song in Awara”. But again, my personal fav from this movie is “Naiyya teri majhdar”.
For all those who have not listened to these songs, and don’t like/admire Rafi, its a personal request to listen these three songs
September 5th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
I have gone through all the comments and I agree with most of them.
But as for the song “TUM BIN JAOON KAHAN” Kishore version sounds sad which it is supposed. Rafi’s version sounds to be a rather cheerful one. I have to agree with Mr. P Haldar on this one.
August 31st, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Manish Kumar ji - post 1207
Salutations, I fully agree with your views. This is what I was trying to tell the other people here. I had to argue at length, only for convincing others. Had others been with true knowledge like you, it would have been fine. The singers (rafi, ghantasala and kishore ) under discussion are truly true legends and their individual contributions cannot be replaced by one another. Indeed true. Thanks for the comments.
August 30th, 2008 at 12:54 am
As an Indian, I’m just so glad we have had such people born in my country of birth. These debates over who is the best singer, while amusing to read, also display the continued interest in these singers from the past and I’m so glad Indians of this generation continue this tradition in the face of growing materialism…
August 29th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Manish kumar
I will only reply with a single line. If you have patience and are really a true music analyst and lover, then pl. give healthy replies to my post. 1094 after reading it patiently.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Excellent points Sudip. You express yourself so precisely and vividly. I appreciate that. Always an enjoyable read. There’s still a lot of stuff we haven’t covered in this debate that we’ll all eventually get to.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Murthy: Your boring banter has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Why don’t you take it to the Ghantasala website?
Why didn’t you also mention that if Rafi hadn’t been born, he wouldn’t have been as famous? What happened - happened. That’s all that matters. He was born, went into Hindi Film Industry, and proved to be a great playback singer. This is a good thing to because NO ONE but Rafi could have adapted to and exceeded the expectations of the several dozens of MDs, genres, and actors that Rafi did. In return, what Ghantasala did in the south or what Kishore Kumar did for RD Burman - could not be replaced by anyone including the great Rafi. This is the greatness of the legends. Nevertheless, I esteem and appreciate Rafi’s contributions and virtuosity the most. That’s just me.
Please - take your Ghantasala stuff somewhere else like RMIM. It doesn’t belong here.
August 27th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Mr. Sudip, MYK etc. etc. and other rafi fans
What kind of struggle you people are taking to support rafi as the greatest singer ever. I have sympathies. Is it so necessary to argue at such length for a greatest singer. If he is really great, then there is no need to argue at all, because if someone says, he is not great, the greatness would not vanish. But I have definitely some problems with rafi fans. Rafi ji is a great singer,no doubt, but despite his greatness, he has not been recognised for the greatest awards in the country,leave granting atleast recommending was not done by anybody. You people know, in the 60’s Bharat ratna was not there, at that time the highest civilian award was padma vibhushan. The Andhra Pradesh Govt. had recommended padma vibhushan to sri ghantasala in those days, i.e the highest civilian award, but due to sheer political bias and bollywood lobbying (lata ji had only padmashri then) ghantasala was given only padmashri. This is what is called as true recognition. (This was stated by Brahmananda reddy CM -AP in those days. He frankly wrote to govt. of India, that with ghantasala no playback singer in India can be compared - But despite protests the efforts landed in getting padmashri only) So now you know what is greatness. But today jesudas, p suseela, all have padma bhushans, and lata ji had been awarded the highest civilian award. The highest civilian award in India, was first recommended by A P govt. only to sri ghantasala, perhaps the first greatest award for an indian playback singer in the awards history. Had a Prime Minister like PV narasimha Rao (he is from andhra) would have been there, things would had been easier for ghantasala. (today after 28 years of his demise, sadly fans of rafi are fighting for award for rafi ji - a pitiable state indeed.)Another point, when a stamp was released on ghantasala in 2003, stamps were released for kishore kumar also, why this happened, only because a southern legend is getting recognition. Is it fair i.e why kishore’s stamps were released immediately after release of ghantasala’s stamps. My contention is true talents should always be given due recognition, irrespective of statehood and language. And comparison should not be made on language basis. Kishore also was a great singer, why was he not given any award. ( a political biase indeed) This is the situation in the country.
Rafi was fortunate to have been contributed in bollywood, that is why he is more famous (not greatest pl. He is only one of the greatest). Had he been a regional playback singer, he would have been similar only to extent of a regional playback singer and nothing else.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
My last reply to u…short analysis on ur fav. songs as per ur last blog.
Listen same songs during time “1:25 to 1:35″ .. Akhlaq sang “Gila mout se nahi hai.” Kisore sang “Gila mouuut se nahiiiiiii haiiiii”
Another big difference is,kishore ki pehle line hi dil ko choo leti hai. Pure gaane ki to koi baat hi nahi hai.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Mere dost Sudeep,
Who cares what you like or dislike. “Dil ka bhanwar” would have been 100 times better than Rafi’s version.
Few weeks back in VOI2, Ismail Darbar said “music mahsoos karne ki cheez hai, na ki dimaag lagane ki”..Aur ha, noone could touch or even closer to Kishore in “sur” and karkatein.
abt second songs, just listen “gila mout se nahi hai” line…
Kishore’s version has more feel and harkatein than this song. Akhlaq is almost unheard on low scale…..
Agar e tumhari pasand hai to …i am very sorry. i think i am wasting my time by replying u…
August 26th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Ashu:
I personally do not think “Dil ka bhanwar” can be bettered by anyone. This song required a mystic voice element. Rafi had a naturally mystic voice.
I guess it all depends on what kind of vocal qualities you prefer. I am sure you have a natural preference for deep, sonorous voice. I have a liking for silken, melodious voice. So no matter how good a singer Kishore is, I have a spontaneous liking for Rafi’s voice.
I’ll leave the following as a parting note for today. The following are two songs,one sung by Kishore and other not by Rafi but by someone with a similar base. I prefer the second one because it has better “sur” and “harkatein” . I am sure you will like the first one because it is deep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE7lsLplg5w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pL4KSSw3LI&feature=related
August 25th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Sudip,
Thanx for posting link: great article, but i am disagree to last line
— pity for those who were born two and three decades ago and have not discovered Rafi and Kishore
There are many youngster who are aware of Kishore and Rafi. My nephew(16 yrs. old), he used to make fun of me when he was kid, he used to ask “uncle, why u listen old songs”. I met him aftre 6 months when i visited mumbai last month, i found him listening “Chingari koi bhadke”. I asked him why you are listening old songs. He answered that he started liking old songs, especially Kishore’s number. I was amazed.
August 25th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Dear DhaniRamji,
I really appreciate your view. It really sound like a great blog by a genuine music lover.
As i wrote many times, indivisual can have their own fav like u and me.
As you wrote “Although sometimes I think that Rafi could have sung some of his songs better “. I also think that some of Rafi songs could have sung better by Kishore.
e.g.
- Chura liya hai tumne jo dil ko
- Mujhe choo rahi hai
- e aankhe uff umma
- dil ka bhanwar kare pukar
May be i sound biased, but i appreciate both singers. It is difficult to imagine music without Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh.
Thanks for ur blog.