An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
© Copyrighted to Yoodleeyoo.com All Rights Reserved.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:24 am
both were greatest of their kind! both had their different way of singing.. though i am the biggest fan of kishore and then rafi.. but i must admit that copying rafi is hard enuff than kishore. koi maanay ya na maanay.. rafi was a trained one and kishore was the selfmade.. we all love them !
August 21st, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Good reading on Kishore and Rafi
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?col=§ion=opinion&xfile=data/opinion/2008/August/opinion_August73.xml
August 20th, 2008 at 3:23 am
Dear Ashuji
Kishoreda’s songs sound best in his own voice.We have heard a number of singers trying to copy him but nobody can even remotely create his magic.I have several of his songs sung by his son Amit but I am simply repelled by them.Kishore was Kishore and nobody could have sung what he sang at his best.Although sometimes I think that Rafi could have sung some of his songs better but that is because of my immense liking for Rafi.I think it is an idle exercise to imagine who could have done what.Let us just enjoy what these great maestros have left according to our choice.
There is no threat to Rafi from Kishore or to Kishore from Rafi.Both these are giants in their own right.The real threat,Ashuji,to both of them and to good music is from the trashy stuff that is being churned out by Bollywood these days.When I listen to most of the songs of these days I find that it are just western tunes filled out with Hindi words.There is a 6th class student who says that his favourite singer is Michael Jackson.He can’t understand a word of what Michael Jackson sings.It is this craze for western music that has almost pushed our own best music out.
I am 59 years old and a very senior professor of English language and literature.Whenever I talk to my postgraduate students about music they just sneer at the film music of the golden era.Most of them haven’t even heard Talat or Hemant’s name.Some haven’t heard even Mukesh’s.They have heard Rafi and Kishore but neither of them is their favourite.They are not familiar with the best songs of these singers.In Rafi’s case it is just yahoo stuff and in Kishore’s also khai ke paan Banaras wala.I am not saying that these songs are bad but these are not the ones that make both Rafi and Kishore the best.
I have noticed another thing.Generally the people’s liking for a singer depends on what they are exposed to in the formative stages of their life.When I was growing up in 1950s it was Rafi all the way.Rafi’s domination was so absolute that other singers were hardly ever heard.Mukesh was heard only when Raj Kapoor’s film came once in a while.Talat was almost out.Kishore was known for only a couple of his songs and was considered to be a very minor singer,not even of the stature of Mahender Kapoor.Kapoor with his Humraj songs had made a name for himself.My generation liked Kishore’s songs but only modestly.We liked his Meire Mahboob Qyamat hogi but somehow my generation couldn’t by and large appreciate the music of 70s.Ever since I have been participating in this debate,I have listened a lot to Kishore in order to understand and appreciate him but have failed.I can like about fifty of his songs ;beyond that I find him intolerable.I find some of Rafi’s stuff too intolerable but I like hundreds of his songs.This is how my mind is geared.
A great British philosopher of the last century,F H Bradley, says that we find reasons for what we like on instinct.Actually our response to music is instinctive and spontaneous but later we find reasons to defend and justify it.This is the reason for all the debates.Not everybody has the same preferences.For example,Shakespeare is universally regarded as the greatest writer but there have been distinguished dissenters also,the most famous of whom were Tolstoy and Bernard Shaw.
So let us have truce and enjoy what we like best.I have requested you several times to write to me but you haven’t obliged.You may reconsider your decision.
Dear Sudip
I have always enjoyed reading your balanced,dispassionate and perceptive views.I would like to know more about you and if it is all right with you you may write to me.My e-mail id is
dogra_suresh@yahoo.co.in
August 20th, 2008 at 3:22 am
I agree with the first part of Ashu’s post #1195. It is also true that Kishore’s simplistic approach to singing was well appreciated by contemporaries and even by Rafi fans.. Kishore could make a song look deceptively simple because of the sonorous richness of his voice..Little disagreement here.
But those only do not make the greatest singer. In a previous post of mine, I had mentioned that Kishore has a unique approach to singing..Rafi, on the other hand has elements of almost every singer I know of-and that is his greatness. For example: Kishore’s approach to the few Qawwalis he sang was unique and entirely “Kishorean”.. Rafi’s approach to Qawwali was the traditional approach which makes him sound like a Qawwal. His approach to Ghazals make him sound like an established Ghazal singer..I do not know of any other singer that can adapt to so many genres.. Kishore fans would think the uniqueness is the mark of greatness. I would argue that the fact that Rafi used to adapt to different genres so easily was his greatness. It all depends on what you prefer.
I also think Kishore’s fans ears are too tuned to Kishore. This is not only true with Ashu but every Kishore fans I have come across. So when a Kishore fan says Udit’s “Khaike pan Banaraswala” was nowhere close to Kishore, I would like to know WHY? Did he technically falter anywhere? Just that he has a less sonorous voice than Kishore does not make that song any worse than Kishore.. That would be a uni-dimensional judgment.. In one of the concerts that I attended, Pandit Ajoy Chakraborty, the renowned classical vocalist sang two Kishore’s songs to show how classical singers can adapt..I am 100% sure that if Kishore’s fans listen to those, they will say “Ajoy was nowhere close to Kishore”…I am not sure how “not same as Kishore” translates to “nowhere close to Kishore” or “worse than Kishore”..Every singer is different-so we should be able to judge songs on their individual merit.
When I say Rafi clones are worse than Rafi, I am NOT expecting them to be same as Rafi. Nor do I expect them to reproduce a song 100%.. I try to judge them individually on technicalities and vocal attributes. That way, I think Amanat Ali did more justice to a Rafi song more than anyone else, though his style was different from Rafi..
August 17th, 2008 at 10:14 am
DhaniRamji,
U wrote
None of the Rafi’s clone could creat magic as Rafi. I partially agree to it, but i must say Sonu was on top for last coupleof year.
Aap ko shayad pata nahi hoga, in one of last inetrview Kishore said….”Duniya jis kisi me mera ans dekhegi, use haatho haath legi”
Chahe wo Kumar Sanu ho, ya abhijeet ho aur ya ab “SHAAN” ho
Dear Unknown,
I am big fan of Rafi too. He was great. I keep listening his songs so there is no questionof hatred. If you ask me good thing abt KK. I will write.
Kishore and Rafi shared great relationship. There is no doubt. BUt numerous time i wrote to rafians that he was never Rafi fan, but he likes Rafi as he likes Mukesh and other singers. He was fan of 4 personalities wich i have mentioned already. Mukesh was great fan of Saigal, not Rafi.
There was inetrview of Nitin MUkesh’s son, he said he is fond of Kishore…It was on record of NDTV India..
August 17th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Dhaniramji,
I am quite bore of reading same thing again and again. I never denied that Rafi was great as Kishore or Mukesh.
I have a problem with those who start comparing them and come up with their own ranking.
Not only you. there was another person on this site said that Kishore could never sing like Rafi. I am 110% agree to that. My reply would be If kishore could have sung like Rafi, then we wouls have not wasted our time in debating who is great. Kishore had his own innovative style like Sachin/Lara, where Rafi was perfectionalist like Dravid.
You can see people copy kishore style still now. e.g.
- There are shown on his name
- Mostof the new movie has his old songs
(e.g. Bachana E Hasino….Producer n Director thought to keep Kishore’s version.. They could have easily asked any singers to sing this songs, but they knew that it can’t be as powerful as it is in Kishore’s voice..Though some parts of songs was sung by Sumit.
DhaniRamji, u wrote:
On this site itself there is a post wherein someone claims that he is a small time singer and can sing Kishore’s songs very well but finds it difficult to sing Rafi’s song because Rafi has sung them with great perfection.I know of many people who believed when Kumar Sanu was at the peak and who still believe that Sanu was a better singer than Kishore.Well,I don’t believe it myself
My reply:
Great thing abt Kishore that he made songs so easy that anyone think that they can sing this songs well. This was great quality in kishore, and i did not find this quality in any singer (Mukesh was 30%)
When i was 10 yrs. old, even i thought i can sing Rafi’s songs and Kishore;s songs easily, but i realized later that no songs are simpler.
Hope u remember VOI-1, There was one bengali singer….He was singing “O Hansini….kaha ud chali”. i am sure u will say it is very simple songs…I agree it is, but do you think anyone could have done justice to this songs as kishore did. Abhijeet made it very clear abt it when he was offering marks to that contestant.
I challenge DHaniRamji, if you are a singer, take any simpler song of kishore and Rafi and publish it here. I am sure you would be closer to Rafi, and far away from Kishore.
It has been proven in so many singing contestant….
Aur ha….U wrote abt “AAKE SEEDHE LAGI”. DHaniramji, we all grown up listening Rafi and Kishore’ songs. If somebody sings it brillaintly it doesn’t mean that he is closer to any of legends. Kisi aur ka gaya gaana, hamesha aasan hota hai.
That’s why these contenstant are not able to get any reasonable work after competition over.
Aur ha..agar logo ki baat kare to.. There are people who believe sonu is better than Rafi (especially younger generation).
One time, people thought Munna Aziz was better than Rafi. There are many people whio think SP and Yasudas arebetter than Kishore and Rafi.
Bolne wale tokuchh bhi bolte hai…Sachhai bolni nahi padti, dikhati hai. BUt noone can help you if you keep your eyes shut.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Dhani Ram wrote:
“also that we should not go by what is happening on T.V. reality shows”..
–I fully agree. Since when was music judged on the basis of “immitability”? If that’s the benchmark, Lata is the worst of them all, because of sheer number of Lata clones. Anuradha, Alka, Sreya and even the bar girls can clone Lata numbers…
Ashu: Since you are a big believer in this theory of “immitability”, please listen to Babul Supriyo’s rendition of Rafi songs..He is well-known as a Kishore (and Sanu) clone, he should have cherished that honor. Then he tried Rafi numbers like “Apni aakhon mein basakar”… Please listen to Babul’s version and give us an honest opinion on how he sang..Here is the link for download:
http://www.dishant.com/album/Babul_Supriyo_-_Souls_Forever_-_Vol_8.html
August 16th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Dear Ashuji
You have a wonderfully fertile imagination.You build castles of sand on flawed premises and half-chewed,undigested notions and revel in them.Let me take up some of your imaginary bubbles:
1.That you have proven anything regarding Asha’s duets is just gobbledygook.What have you proved and to whom? I hold with many many highly knowledgeable people that Lata-Rafi duets are the best and next are Asha-Rafi duets.Now if you consider your unfounded assertions proofs,they may satisfy just you and nobody else.There is a man qualified better than both you and me,Shankar Mahadevan, who in an article in the Indian Express about a month ago, said that the best duet ever sung by Asha is with Rafi: Abhi na jao chhod kar ki dil abhi bhara naheen from the film Hum Dono.It means that some knowledgeable persons don’t care a dime for your proofs.
I have my own Asha Rafi favourite duets which I rate far higher than anything sung by Asha Kishore.The number runs into scores and I can’t cite them.Just a couple of them are:Yahi hai voh saanjh aur savera jis ke liye tadpe hum saara jeevan bhar; ik chameli ke mandve tale do badan pyar ki aag mein jal gaye;main piar ka rahi hoon teri zulf ke saaye mein zara der thehar jaon etc.The list is endless.Compared to such duets Asha Kishore have sung pretty pedestrian stuff.
You will not agree with what I have said above as you didn’t agree earlier.Fair enough.But if you think that your vociferous assertions are proofs of anything,you need to study a primer on logical reasoning.
2.You are terribly facile in your assertion that any good singer can replicate Rafi’s songs.Rafi started singing in 1947 and till today has there been another Rafi ? There may be imitators galore but none can approach Rafi as a singer even remotely.
You say that nobody can sing like Kisore.You say this only to enhance Kishore at the cost of Rafi.But your assertion has no substance.My purpose in my earlier post was only to show that just as you assert that all good singers can sing like Rafi,there may be others who may equally fanatically assert that even ordinary singers can sing as well as Kishore.On this site itself there is a post wherein someone claims that he is a small time singer and can sing Kishore’s songs very well but finds it difficult to sing Rafi’s song because Rafi has sung them with great perfection.I know of many people who believed when Kumar Sanu was at the peak and who still believe that Sanu was a better singer than Kishore.Well,I don’t believe it myself.But my point is that like you many people assert all kinds of unfounded things.Just as no responsible person with a sound knowledge of music will say that Sanu is a better singer than Kishore,musical fraternity by and large believes that there has been one and only one Rafi.In my earlier post I cautioned also that we should not go by what is happening on T.V. reality shows.Let me add.A couple of months back one Raja Hassan from Rajasthan sang in a reality show Kishore’s amusing song meire banke sawariya in male female voice.I was not the only one to feel that Raja had sung it as well as Kishore but the judges also said so.But not even for one moment I jumped to the hasty conclusion that Raja,or for that matter anybody else,can sing some of Kishore’s best songs like him,though I believe that some of Kishore’s more serious songs could have been sung better by Rafi.But this is a debatable point so I shall not press it.Today itself,Anu Kapoor,the anchor of Junoo tried to sing Rafi’s Ai watan ai watan humko teri kassam and made a mess of it.He usually sings Kishore’s songs much better.Zakir Hussain tried Rafi’s Watan pe jo fida hoga amar woh naujawan hoga today on sa re ga ma pa and ruined the song.
3. You say that you don’t agree that 50s and 60s was a great era.Your sentence construction being faulty at this point,I haven’t been able to clearly understand your import.If you say that it wasn’t the greatest period of Hind music,you are flying in the face of facts.Musical fraternity unequivocally recognises it as the golden period of Hindi film music and Rafi was the leading singer of the period.Yes he sang quite a few ootpatang songs.It is not for them that he is remembered.It is for an awesome output of brilliant songs that he is regarded as the greatest singer.Mukesh,Manna Dey etc were all great singers but Rafi was far ahead of them by virtue of his phenomenal reach,range and sweetness.He deploys a fantastic range of notes to traverse regions of music that no other singer can even dream of.This has been acknowledged by those singers themselves.MDs of the golden period reposed their maximum faith in him.What compells you ,Ashu, to deny what is obvious? Why don’t you base your arguements on facts rather than fantasies?Do you deny the fact that Rafi was the leading singer of the golden period of Hindi film music?
4.Whenever the contribution of male singers to Hindi film music is discussed,three names are mentioned in the following order: Rafi,Kishore and Mukesh.Do you read anything significant in this order?
August 15th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Ashu: …i see you quoting this instance of kk singiing ‘man re tu kahe’ many times before and even on other forums,,,,i searched all over the net but couldnt find this version…
could you please point us to the link for this…
———————–
My reply:
Kishore could have done 100% better than him.
for e.g.
- Tum bin jaaon kaha
- Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare (sang in concert)
————————–
August 15th, 2008 at 5:13 am
Ashu:
I think we all kind of agree and disagree on couple of points.
1. We all agree that singing a song is a matter of training, whether it is a Rafi song or a Kishore song. Any good singer-Abhas, Saptak, Arshit, Amit, Aneek with a decent control of sur and taal would sing a song, whether it is a Kishore song or a Rafi song..Occasionally, they may goof up, but it is a matter of practice before they sing correctly.
2. Singing with a certain gayki and voice quality is the difficult part where you feel Kishore is inimitable and we feel Rafi is. The reality is both are..We Rafians feel that no one, right from Aneek to Sonu Nigam has those qualities because either their vocal bass or vocal pitch or both are limited. Rafi had a phenomenal octave range which these guys did not have. And you feel Kishore deserves that spot-fair enough.
A proof of the second point is that none of these so called Rafi clones created the same effect when they sang their own songs. One can listen to a Rafi song 100 times, practice all the harkateins, notes, etc and reproduce that to some degree. But when they sing their own song, they lose their reference.
I respectfully agree, that to Kishore fans Kishore clones may have the similar limitation. I would assert that there is at least one person who in his lifetime reproduced the Kishore effect in his own songs-that was his own son Amit Kumar. I know lot of people who cannot distinguish between Amit and his dad’s voice (note, not in in Kishore’s songs, but in Amit’s own songs).
Kumar Sanu, to me, came nowhere near Kishore-but he ended up creating a similar market effect as Kishore between 1990 and 1996. Again I am not comparing Sanu to Kishore, I am just stating that the market effect in pure revenue terms and fanfare of Kishore between 1970-1976 was comparable to Sanu between 1990-1995…
August 14th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Dear ashu,
May I know who are you?As I think your one of KK family member or you don’t like Mohd Rafi as person or you don’t know anything about KK and Mohd Rafi or your child age of 6 to 12……..
KK was great singer and greater actor as I think.
The two superstars Rajesh Khanna and Mr Bachchan they was not able to put KK at the top as singer,RD used KK more than Mohd Rafi but 1980 RD back to Mohd Rafi more than KK in Film Shaan, RD used Mohd Rafi more than KK In 1980 Mohd Rafi which was last flim of RD with Mohd Rafi.
In 1980 Mohd Rafi singed only for 8 months it mean mean less than other singers 4 months but number of songs was more than any singer in 1980……
Dear ashu, plz write good things about KK and about his life what other singers or actors said about him.KK was a good friend of Mohd Rafi and he was fan of mohd Rafi.
Mukesh son said that his Father was MohdRafi fan….
August 14th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
If Rafi has been the greatest singer ever I dont see how this can be overcome by the remix induced resurrection of RDB and kk in the past few years…all these are passing trends..Rafi sahab and his songs are everlasting evergreen…
regards,
August 13th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Dhani Ramji..
U wrote in prev. blog:
Kishore too would have made a mess of Rafi’s songs if he had attempted them
My reply:
Kishore could have done 100% better than him.
for e.g.
- Tum bin jaaon kaha
- Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare (sang in concert)
Har koi Mahendra kapoor nahi hota, sir
August 13th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Dhaniram ji,
you always have half knowledge, that i have proven many times like
- Asha’s best duets and many..
But great things is, you know partial..There are rafians who don’t know anything and write.
Abt Saptak, I believe u watch “Junoon” reguralry…He was the only singer who got high marks from the judges. His attitude was a problem….aur bhaiyaa sms to kisiko bhi bahar nikal sakta hai, jaise Ali Abbas (my fav.)
Aaj rafi ho te to saayad qualify bhi nahi kar pate.
I wrote abt singer, not abt his popularity. Abhaas is very good singer, and above all, trained singer. Point is, he could not do justice to kishore;s songs. Aur ha, abt Saptak, If you remember(i doubt
) in one episode, saptak sang songs from “HUM KISI SE KAM NAHI” sung by Kishore, Rafi and RDB.
- Chand mera dil, tum ky ajaano an dkishore;s number. Rahat said he liked “CHAND MERA DIL”.
Yaad hai.
50s and 60s was great era of music…i am not completely agree. There are so many 3rd grade songs sung by Rafi.
Mukesh, Manna and Talat were outstanding. It doesnot mean that i am degrading Rafi. Rafi was voice of Hero of that era, so he sang many bad songs and at the same time he sang many great songs.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:47 am
Reference 1178
1.Eternal truth: 50s and 60s is unanimously regarded as the golden age of Hindi film music and the golden voice of the age was that of Rafi.No genuine lover of music with knowledge and perception ever contests this.Hence Rafi is the best playback singer ever.
2.Hallucinatory rant :Only Kishore could have sung Kishore’s songs. Mukesh,Manna Dey,Talat,Kishore or Ashu could have sung Rafi’s songs equally well or better.
Now Junoon and Abhas.Abhas can’t create even one percent of Rafi’s effect.In Junoon itself,Saptak was repeatedly complimented by Anand Raj for singing like Kishore.Saptak sang Kishore’s songs for which he drew applause from the judges.But you should know that Saptak got the lowest ratings and was eliminated.Kishore like singer was ousted to bring in Abhas so that Bollywood segment which was getting a battering could get better ratings.
There are literally hundreds of songs of Rafi which only another Rafi can sing.I give just three:
1.Main yeh soch kar us ke dar se chala tha ke voh rok le gi mana le gi mujh ko
2. Jaag dile deewana rut jaagee vassal yaar ki
3. Koi mujh se poochhe ki tum meire kya ho
Nobody could have sung or can sing these songs.Yes,in a way even I can sing them but what singing is that.The quality of Rafi’s voice was such that it couldn’t be duplicated.
I think of many of Kishore’s best songs which Rafi would have rendered with added grace.One of my favourites is : meire nainan sawan bhadon phir bhi meira man pyasa.Kishore sings it reasonably well but because of lack range in voice he is not able to deliver what could have made this very good composition one of the best songs.
Lata sings this song better because she employs more notes than Kishore.Only Rafi could have excelled even Lata because Rafi had an endless range of notes with perfect melodious voice.
I have observed a serious flaw in Kishore’s singing.It is just a singsong style.Mukhra and antra are sung at the same pitch.Variation in scale and pitch leads to a bleating effect.
There is a non-film ghazal of sterling quality sung by Rafi much applauded by top ghazal singers.Aaye bahar ban ke lubha kar chale gaye.
Ashu, do you think Kishore could even dream of attempting this ghazal? Kishore knew his limitations as a singer and therefore never attempted anything beyond run of the mill populist stuff.He could never scale in music the heights that Rafi did.For example there is absolutely nothing in his repertoire to match the ghazal mentioned above.
I can mention another song which is absolutely beyond the capabilities of Kishore: Dil jo na keh saka vohi raaze dil kehane ki raat aayee.Lata has sung it but just see how Rafi outstrips her.
It is not without reason that Meenu Purshottam has said that Kishore used to say that he could never sing like Rafi.But the irony is that the fans of Kisore like Ashu pretend to be wiser than their icon.
And besides,don’t go by the compliments they pay or don’t pay in reality shows.These reality shows are just stunts.Their purpose is to keep the audience bound by theatricality and dramatics.There is no music in them and no substance.
I must also mention a patriotic song from Manoj starrer Shaheed: Ai watan ai watan hum ko teri kasam teri rahon mein jaan tak luta jaayeinge.
When Rafi comes to:jab manao tum azad bharat ka din us ghari tum hamein bhool jaana naheen.
The whole song and particularly the above portion is sung with such pathos and melancholy that no other singer could have infused a fraction of emotion that Rafi did.It simply not Kishore’s cup of tea.Ashu,listen to this song,put you hand on your heart and honestly tell if you believe that any singer could have sung this song.Yes,any good singer could have sung this song but do you know how? Just as when Mahendra Kapur was asked if he wished he could have sung some of Rafi’s best songs,he replied,” Who wouldn’t have liked to sing like Rafi? But I would have only made a mess of it.” Kishore too would have made a mess of Rafi’s songs if he had attempted them.
August 11th, 2008 at 9:31 am
dear myk,
ha ha ha…I am insecure….ha ha ha
U guys are insecure, that’s why always come up with illusion. And i always try to bring you guys in reality.
I don’t feel to reply you, because i had already replied to ur illusion or doubt in my prev. blogs.
dear sudip,
I don;t have any issue with word “chand” render by Rafi. Abt three music pundit referred by u…i can just laugh ha ha ha.
If jaikishan and Raj kapoor is pundit, then i am also music pundit
I believe among these 3, only shankar was highly talented…Jaikishan was manipulator and Raj Kapoor was good listener like u and me….
Aur ha…Rafians ek aur sacchai.
My fav. singer Aabhas (rafi’s clone..i will not say sonu’s clone) is particilatinig in “Junoon” music relaity show. Last week, he supposed to sing rafi;s song from DOsti, but NDTV imagine channel asked him to sing “Bachana E hasiono” from “HUM KISI SE KAM NAHI”….He was terribly failed to sing this songs, and in contrast he sing rafi’s songs beautifully.
CHillane se aur kucchh bhi likhane se kuchh nahi hota..Sachhai sabke saamne hai…any trained singer can sing Rafi’ song easily, not kishore’songs. Rafi or any singer can’t even come closer to genious Kishore.
Aur ha …Yesterday i was watching “Neel Kamal” movie on SAB TV. All songs are great songs..hats-off to Ravi, Sahir, Rafi and Asha. There was a seen where Balraj shahani visited his daughter’s place, and he got disappointed seeing Waheeda’s condition. There was a songs playing in the background “babul ki duyaaye leti ja”. Songs was great, and Rafi took this songs to incomparable height. I felt especially in that situation his voice got broken.
August 9th, 2008 at 2:01 am
“I don’t like the way Rafi pronounces the world “chand” in “yeh mera prem patra”. his voice gets really thin every time he sings that word. it’s an awful blemish in the song. kishore would have sang this song better.”
-So true! I wonder why three pundits of music -Shankar, Jaikishan and Raj Kapoor who were at the sets did not realize this “awful blemish” and re-take the song with Rafi himself or with someone else.
SAD…SAD..SOB…SOB…
August 8th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Ashu,
You’re hitting your head against a brick wall by trying to associate Kishore in the same league as Rafi. Your arguments show how insecure you are about your favourite singer. You will never be able to prove that Kishore was as good as Rafi because, simply put, he wasn’t, and that can never happen, and that, let me put it in your words, “is a fact”.
Kishore himself said he could never be like Rafi, and so did a countless number of personalities in the music world, so why the debate in the first place when its obviously clear ?. If its not, then I’m sorry to say its ignorance.
However I admire your spirit to continue such a debate.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:52 am
I don’t like the way Rafi pronounces the world “chand” in “yeh mera prem patra”. his voice gets really thin every time he sings that word. it’s an awful blemish in the song. kishore would have sang this song better.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:27 am
Ashu wrote: “If all great songs of Rafi would have been given to Mannad Dey, Talat, Mukesh or any singer…it would be as great as it is now. (Note: Same will not true in case of Kishore’s songs). But this is a fact.”
LOL.
Ashu wrote: “I feel that credit should go to MDs and lyricist.
A lot of credit goes to them. However, Rafi should be credited for his versatility and virtuosity in taking so many compositions to maximum heights. He did this in a period of music that was very rich and where there were many different and demanding MDs and genres.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:16 am
here’s suresh wadkar singing “ehsaan tera hoga muchpe”
pay attention to lata at 0:44!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymOli4DUY0M
August 6th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Ashu wrote:
“Most of so called tough songs from Rafi and Manna Dey sung by almost all contenstant in reality show. i.g. Aabhash (VOI), Ankit (Sa Re GA MA)…So if i follow ur analysis then all those songs are not great”
-So you really think Abhash, Ankit, Ismeet, Aneek and the likes sang like Rafi… Why don’t you re-listen to Toshi’s “Khuda bhi aasman se” and Rafi’s version? Same with Abhash’s “Mera to jo bhi kadam hai”… Compare the basses. Again to Anandji’s point, these guys are singing from the throat, not from the navel like Rafi. Initially your point was “no one follows Rafi today”.. And now you are saying “Everyone sings Rafi’s tough songs”..Please stick to one view.
It may be still technically possible to have one or two performances like Rafi or Kishore…But it is not about a single performance..Zakir Hussain in SVOI sang the first two songs very well.. I would not say he was like Rafi but his higher notes were flawless like Rafi.. But in the third performance “Main jat yamla” he was terrible..
Finally, I do not think the songs that these guys sing really fall in the “tough category”…Rafi’s less popular songs are often much tougher.. To me rendition of “Kahin bekhayal hokar” is tougher than “Duniya ke rakhwale”. Similarly “Main nigahen teri chehre se” is a really tough number.. I am yet to see people try those.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Dear Ammad,
Let me clear ur doubt.
I never mean “more songs a singer sings more he will have the ranking.”
What i mean…All songs whihc were selected by jury not based on singer’s songs but as great songs ( I feel that credit should go to MDs and lyricist).
Someone said 50s and 60s was golder era of music…Can you answer why?
Is it because of singer ? I will say NO…NO…..NO.
If all great songs of Rafi would have been given to Mannad Dey, Talat, Mukesh or any singer…it would be as great as it is now. (Note: Same will not true in case of Kishore’s songs)
So, most of the great songs of Rafi fell under that era. Few 70s songs were there though.
I know you will not have great view abt me after reading this blog. But this is a fact.
I must say here, Rafi was as great as Kishore. Personally, You may like one better than other, but you can’t ignore them.
DhaniRamji, again one side view
August 5th, 2008 at 3:58 am
They were both brilliant.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Will this boring debate ever end ????????? Why can’t we acknowledge both singers were great.
I must say that to any TRUE unbiased music lover, it not really that difficult to realise that Rafi had the upper edge in skill, range and clarity.
For me I am huge fans of Rafi Saab & Kishore Da.
Goodbye!!!