An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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July 10th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Ashu, Rafi was voted as best male playback singer of last century. KK was nowhere in the picture.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:12 am
vipul.
My last blog can be read as:
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Vipul, who proved and when that Rafi is superior.. Everytime i opened ur closed eyes by showing bitter truth, and still u r repeating same line.
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July 10th, 2008 at 9:10 am
sudip,
I was out of india, so i could not reply you. sorry for that.
Here u wrote:
I do not blame you for not recognizing Rafi saab. Even I have the same problem. With lot of his songs, I think how could ANYONE, for that matter, sing those. And those are not necessarily commercially popular numbers. Yesterday I listened to this at least 15 times and yet could not figure out how it is humanly possible to render such emotions:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PyobVfNiVXs
In the simple yoddelling case (which even college singers perform)
My reply:
.
Most of so called tough songs from Rafi and Manna Dey sung by almost all contenstant in reality show. i.g. Aabhash (VOI), Ankit (Sa Re GA MA)…So if i follow ur analysis then all those songs are not great
You said ,College singer can perform yoodelling
Great.. can you record yoodeling in ur voice and send mail to “kkfan@gmail.com”. Pls. don;t steal like rafi;s punjabi song.
Aur ha…You can’t blame me for recognizing Rafi’s voice because i know i will never go wrong in recognizing him. You are absolutely right that you had problem in recognizing voice. I don;t have any doubt that sometime you will fight with me on song “Hum se ka bhool hui”
Sudip, u gave example of “Main Kahi kavi na ban jaao”. I saw “Neeraj” interview on Doordarshan where he was talking abt SDB. He said Dada used to compose different tune for antata and mukhada, and his fav. in that was “Sokhiyon me ghola jaaye phoolu ka …..” aur ha i can give thousands of examples of kishore where every single word in the antaras was sung differently.
I am eager to give one example now:
Song from Teen Deviyaan….”Arey yaar meri yum bhi ho gajab”…Kishore sang same line 4-5 times….Everytime he sang same word in different style and managed to reach to soul.
Vipul, who proved and when that Rafi is superior.. I believe aftre 5 to 10 yrs. Everytime i opened ur closed eyes by showing bitter truth, and still u r repeating same line.
July 7th, 2008 at 5:05 am
IF YOU WANT TO COMPARE MOHD RAFI JEST DO LIKE THIS
There are so many Rafi’s; the Rafi of Man tadpat darshan and Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare, the Rafi of Suhani raat dhal chuki and Hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare, the Rafi of Tumhare zulf ke sayen mein and Jaane kya dhoonti rahati, the Rafi or Baharon phool barsao and Tere mere sapne, the Rafi of Madhuban mein radhika and Naache man mora magan dhikna dhiki dhiki, the Rafi of Yeh ishq ishq ishq and Parda hai parda, the Rafi of Yahoo chahe koi mujhe jungle kahe and Cuckoo mast baharon ka main aashiq, the Rafi of Aaja aaja main hoon pyar tera and Aaj kal tere mere pyar ke charche,…. The list is endless. He started so many genres in playback singing; it’s simply mind-boggling! Ultimately, Rafi can compete only with Himself.
Many of us are not aware that Shanker Jaikishen used Rafi Sahab for almost 364 films and LP for 373 films. Infact another surprise for me was that pre Aradhna SDB used Rafi Sahab for 90 films out of 120 films
July 7th, 2008 at 5:03 am
From
P. Haldar Says:
May 19th, 2007
Jayanta, I’m not going to discuss the MM-Rafi combo here because that requires a special set of ears. I’ve maintained time and again that RD-KK was a special combination; they were made for one another. What I objected to was what you said about MM switching more and more to Kishore. The truth is that MM never switched. Just a couple of songs here and there for Kishore does not mean much. Rafi sang more than 100 songs for your loRD, but we can still ignore them. For Rafi, take out Naushad and SJ, you’ll have SD and OP. Take all these four out, you will still have Madan Mohan and LP. Take all these six out, you’ll have Roshan and KA. Now let’s focus only on SD; I know the media keeps talking about SD-Kishore all the time. They produced some wonderful tunes, no doubt about it. But are you sure that SD-KK was better than SD-Rafi? I’ll just list 10 compositions of SD for Rafi and I’ll let you judge for yourself.
1. Yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaye to kya hai (Pyasa)
2. Jinhe naaz hai Hind par o kahan hai (Pyasa)
3. Dekhi zamane ki yaari (Kagaz ke Phool)
4. Hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare chale gaye (Kala Pani)
5. Saathi na koi manzil (Bambai ka Babu)
6. Dil ka bhanwar kare pukar (Tere Ghar ke Samne)
7. Nache man more magan dhikna dhiki dhiki (Meri Surat Teri Aankhen)
8. Din dhal jaye (Guide)
9. Tere mere sapne (Guide)
10. Mera man tera pyasa (Gambler)
I can list 10 more but for the time being these should suffice. Why Kishore, has any singer sung such a variety of high-class songs for any composer? If you want ghazals, select nos. 4 and 8. If you want soft romantic songs, select 9 and 10. If you want an intoxicating feel with the voice melting into the sound of a flute, select 6. If you are in the mood for a classical song, select 7; the tabla accompaniment was by Pt. Santa Prasad and you’ll find out how Rafi’s voice deftly does jugalbandi with the tabla. If you are in a blue mood, listen to 4 and 5. If you want songs that no other singer dare tread, select 1, 2 or 3. And I haven’t even listed “Khoya khoya chand”, the song that gave Dev his debonair image. Also, I haven’t included the numerous duets Rafi sung with Lata, Geeta and Asha, an art that the old man specialized in. But I’d recommend one from MSTA: Tere bina sooni nayan hamare.
As regards classical songs, you are wrong about Manna being better than Rafi. In my ranking I would put Manna a close second, followed by Lata and Asha. Remember “Madhuban mein radhika nache re,” the most celebrated classical song from Hindi films? How about “Man tadpat hari darshan ko aaj”, the best exposition of Malkhauns to date? If you like SJ, try “Radhike tu ne bansri churayi”. This song for whatever reason didn’t get the fame it deserved; it’s a wonderful composition and see how easily Rafi glides through the difficult notes and still maintains his vocal quality. If you like OP, try “Anchal mein saja lena kaliya”; this song took even someone of the stature of Bade Ghulam Ali Khan by surprise. And if you ever heard Rafi at a concert singing “O duniya ke raakhwale” you’d have marvelled at how he used to deliver the “Mahal udas aur galiya sooni” part; I call this a song within a song, composed by Rafi himself to hit your heart with such a force that tears will come out in a second.
Rafi is the “ustadon ke ustad”. Sudhu sudhu torko kore ki laabh?
July 6th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Sudip, Some ppl just do not have any understanding of music and there is no point talking abt music with suc ppl. So my advice will be to ignore such messages………
July 4th, 2008 at 5:44 am
In a report carried on July 1 by Jallandhar based Hindi daily,Punjab Kesari,well-known ghazal singer Peenaz Masani has stated that ghazal has a lasting impact while pop music is ephemeral.Ghazal is for the ear while pop is for the sight.She praises Begum Akhtar for holding her own in primarily a male bastion.
I expected her to mention some great ghazal singer as her favourite singer.But lo and behold!Her favourite singer is the greatest singer ever in any genre:Mohammed Rafi.
Sudipji,
That Rafi is monotonous and lacks variation is just so much bunkum and not worth any attention.He is the only one among all the singers whose each song has variation.only we need to be properly attuned to it.This quality of his has been testified by many of the greatest maestros.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:51 am
Himanshu wrote:
“Rafi was melodious but I find monotony in his voice as if the same song is being sung again and again.With Kishore you will find difference with every song.”
-Very subjective dude. I have the reverse problem with Kishore.
With Rafi, I find variations in every word, let alone every song.
Listen to “Main kahin kavi na ban jayoo”.. Every single word in the 3 antaras is sung differently..I can cite hundreds of these examples. Maybe they do not appeal to your ear.. And I appreciate it; just that it is very subjective.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Nature blesses some with its divine qualities and those who have it will be better than the rest no matter how much you crack your head.Specificaly Kishore is miles ahead of rafi.Rafi was melodious but I find monotony in his voice as if the same song is being sung again and again.With Kishore you will find difference with every song.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Ashu:
I do not blame you for not recognizing Rafi saab. Even I have the same problem. With lot of his songs, I think how could ANYONE, for that matter, sing those. And those are not necessarily commercially popular numbers. Yesterday I listened to this at least 15 times and yet could not figure out how it is humanly possible to render such emotions:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PyobVfNiVXs
In the simple yoddelling case (which even college singers perform) you thought it was stolen from someone else; in the above song I thought GOD has actually sang and Rafi just lip sync’ed.
June 29th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
post 1130 - Mr. Japani
I do not know what you are saying. If you want to bring into line all unknown singers, then I can say that I also sing better than others. The singers which you mentioned, are they connected with playback singing of indian cine field. Bring forthnames of rafi, kishore, ghantasala, manna dey, mukesh, spb, yesudas etc. who are indian playback singers. But who are these shanti sharma and others. Never heard of the names. Could you pl. clarify.
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:05 am
Asha Bhosle’s interview with Subhash K Jha:
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.music.indian.misc/2008-06/msg00270.html
SKJ: Don’t you get disheartened by the dearth of inspiring co-singers?
Asha: Very much. You ask Didi also, we’re absolutely depressed.
Sometimes when I am standing in the recording room I feel Rafi or
Kishore will appear from nowhere. You won’t believe this, but some
composer recently said that Rafi, Kishore, and Mukesh refused to let
go of their positions! Composers who felt they had been orphaned when
Rafi Saab died now find the present-day voices equally good! Rafi’s
voice is permanently etched in my ears, just like Didi’s voice. I
can’t tolerate others trying to imitate them. So many memories are
associated with Didi’s voice. It’s my life! To me those singers are
the pinnacles of excellence. I miss their maturity of voice. Among
the current signers I’m comfortable singing with Suresh Wadkar and
Amit Kumar. With Amit it’s almost as if his father has entered his
soul.
All these hearsays about Asha and Rafi are pretty much baseless.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
I like both rafi saheb and kishor kumar..
But rafi saheb is quite ahead than kishor kumar..
just hear song tum bin jahau kha..
song was sung by both the greats..
you will get it..
June 17th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Dear Vipin,
You are absolutely correct.
Dear Sudip,
Pls. don’t take personal. I want healthy discussion here.
I must say, I am proud of my knowledge….In the night 2 o’clock, if you ask me to recognize Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh voice. I am sure i will never go wrong.
Pls. ask “Dilraj kaur” abt yoodelling part. Pls. touch ur heart adn answer this. If you think Rafi had sung this yoodelling, i am OK but truth is he not.
Anyway, i don’t want to continue arfument on this song, because i am sure yoodeling was sung by somebody else
June 16th, 2008 at 6:32 am
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Usi6sJrGszE
Can KK sing a song like this one? does it mean rafi is better than KK in classical songs? Ashu, your comments? Please do not bring otthers in comparison.
We hve already proved Rafi’s superioirty over kk in patriotic songs category. Time to move on with classical songs and then we will move into other types…
June 13th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Ashu:
Kindly refresh your knowledge… The song is pasted is sung entirely by Rafi. The first time I came to know of this song was from Dilraj Kaur’s interview in a Bengali magazine. Then I asked for the song in Hamara forums and got it in my collection. If it was not sung by Rafi, people would have caught it before you (Hamara forums also has KK fans).
The recording is done in 2 tracks…That is why it sounds that way. The whole song is Rafi’s.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
All dear blogers,
Both Rafi and Kishore are like diamonds. Who are we to compare them?
Both are like day and night, can’t be caompared. both have their own taste and beat the either one when compares in the virtue of its plane.
So not to fight any more and just listem their magical voices dear.
rafi is grate and kishore is aslo great…
That’s all.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
my dear friend Prabol,
Prabol, shayad aapne mera blog thik ne nahi padha..I have mention “Laila Majnoo” not AAA because it was multi-starrer movie.
Kishore sang for Amitabh
Rafi for Rishi (Muslim character)
Mahendra Kapoor and Mukesh for Vinod Khanna.
FYI, one line in parda hai parda was sung by Lasmikant himself….Pehle apna knowledge pakka kar lo phir likho or muh kholo…
June 13th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
sudip,
i had wrong view abt u. I thought u r one of among few real rafi fans who understand rafi and his voice.
)..
i feel very sorry abt me abt u.
Regarding the given link, Yoodleling was not done by Rafi, it was done by somebody else…(might be stolen from one of kishore’s yoodle
Though song was good…I am sorry to say that Rafi’s voice was not suited to this song at all…female voice sound better than him.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Another Rafi yodelling:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AZTRUWalYfk&feature=related
June 7th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Dear All,
I may not have much knowledge of music but I am sure that here you are not discussing great music or the greatest singers of all times but your personal likings. Something that you like the most in music becomes best for you and around that only moves your thoughts and ideas. And if you say that particuler singer is admired the most and that is why he or she is the best then dont forget Hamesh Reshamiya(The gretest hit of all times).
You might have heard more of Kishore Da and less of Rafi Sahib. That is why you may like Kishore Da more than any other singer and Vice Versa. And if you have heard both of them eqully well then it depends on what kind of voice,tone,tunes etc impress you.
Anyway, if you have not heard of Nasir Aminuddin Khan Dagar,Shanti Sharma etc then stop arguing anymore. Because even you dont know much about music then.
Regards,
Japani
June 4th, 2008 at 9:17 am
my dear friend sudip,
u wrote:
If you take that factor out and assume that Rafi would have sung in Ek Duje Ke Liye, Ek Hi Bhool, etc, the balance tilts a lot towards Rafi..
my reply:
It was good anlaysis by Ajay and u should appreciate it, and again u r trying to defend Rafi. Don’t defend him dost (Rafi is great as other singerS), Ajay wrote the fact which is almost correct.
Sudip:
u wrote:
Don’t forget the fact that Kishore lived for another 9 years after Rafi’s death. During this time, Kishore sang for LP in Jeevan Dhara, Andha Kanoon, Meri Jung, Mr. India, Qatl, All Rounder, Akalmand……
my reply:
.
I would like to correct u here…Rafi died on “July 31, 1980″ and kishore dies on “October 13, 1987″…so i believe difference is approx. 7 yrs, not 9 yrs
Kishore sang more songs than u mentioned.
for e.g. Ghar Ek Mandir, Praar ka mandir”, Avtaar (brilliant music), Nazrana (my fav…Isse Pehle Ke Yaad Tu Aaye) and many more……
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Manna’s latest interview:
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/being-manna-dey-the-modest-musical-maestro/66376-19-p0.html
He mentions Kishore and holds him in high regard (”Great artist”).
But unsolicited, he mentions only one singer:
Manna Dey: The other singers who were in the running were better than me, definitely. Oh yes, they were better singers than me. Even at the height of my career I would say Mohammad Rafi was a better singer than me. He was such a great singer and I used to listen to him, awestruck. His rendering of certain things – I could never do it.
June 1st, 2008 at 9:11 pm
KK sang for LP after Rafi passed away, so the stats have to take that into consideration as well. On July 31’st 1980, Rafi would definitely be leading by a wide margin for LP. For KA, Rafi would be leading as well. For RD, KK had some 330 odd songs compared to Rafi’s 125 odd. RD made a huge mistake in ignoring Rafi for a few years (72-75) and he realized his mistake after. For Rajesh Roshan, the stats would be pretty even. We could list a whole number of MD’s and most would have many more Rafi songs than Kishore songs.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:29 am
According to ASHUJI “I mean to say that in late 70s most of the Rafi great songs were duet….”
-So true.. Even Parda Hai Parda was a duet.. It had one line by Kishore..