An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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May 8th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I am not sure why are we comparing Ghantasala and Rafi. They are two different singers in different languages.
I did listen to ghnatasala’ song, telugu version of Chal ud ja re panchhi and I found Rafi’s version better. It is a personal choice. May be I understand Hindi better than Telugu.
I agree with Dhaniram that Rafi sang in so many languages and Ghantasala was mainly a lead singer in his own regional language.
I can’t really compare two of them as I have not heard Ghantasala enough. But assuming Ghnatasala is greatest South Indian singer and comparing Rafi to him also makes Rafi great. Why we are not comparing kk with Ghantasala? Is it because KK is just not good enough to get compared with him ?
Ashu, your thoughts?
BTW, please enhance my knowledge by teling us few more patriotic songs sung by KK and then we move on to next category.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
All,
Rather than arguing on who sang for whom and who was number 1 actor etc, lets discuss on facts. Lets start the topic with VERSATILITY.
I know Ashu wil hate this topic, but to begin with lets start with PAtriotic songs sung by Rafi and KK and then we will move to next category.
I have following list.
KK
—-
1> Dekho veer jawano
2> …..
3> ….
Ashu, please fill up…
Rafi
—-
1> Janha daal daal per
2> Yeh Desh hai veer
3> KAr chale hum fia
4> Watan ki rah main
5> Watan pe jo fida hoga
6> Aye watan aye watan hum ko
7> Apni aazadi ko hum
8> Sarfaroshi ki Tammna
9> Mera chana hai apni marzi ka
10> Hum laye hai toofan se kishti nikal je
Rafi Fans.. please add more… and after that we will move to next category… How about Bhajans? I am sure Ashu will hate this catefgory as well.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Ashu,
Your lists of the BGM are truly FALSE. I’m not sure where you got your stats from but they are far from the truth. If you want to post, atleast post the truth for once. Naveen stated the truth, and you have yet to reply to my statement about Rafi ruling the BGM in the late seventies/early eighties as well as the period 1979-1981 (besides his ruling on the BGM before), so I will assume you have no reply for that.
Rafi’s rule over the scene, as well as his rule period in terms of years, in every way, was never matched by any other singer. Rafi was truly the King.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Vitthal,
Ghantasala may have enjoyed a huge fan following in the South, but Rafi’s fan following is much greater and world-wide. The Bhagvad Gita rendition doesn’t have anything to do with playback singing, so why are you bringing it up at all ?. Rafi was the most versatile singer and the greatest singer, this is not about composing or other fields. Why would you bring up other factors when we are only talking about singing ?. FYI Rafi also composed some albums as well, and contributed a lot to his songs by giving so many suggestions to MD’s, that was his genius. However, since singing was his profession, he didn’t need to compose for albums. Here is what Rafi had to say regarding this matter:
“In fact, producer-director S. Mukherjee had asked me to compose music for one of his films, sometime back. I turned down his offer because it is my firm belief that one should be perfect in only one field. Look at Talat Mahmood. He took up acting and after he could click neither as a singer nor as an actor.
The late Mukeshbhai took up production and lost heavily when the films he made flopped. If I were to agree to compose music for film today, the other music directors would start feeling that I might steal their tunes for my own films and hence they might even stop assigning me the job of singing for them.”
It doesn’t matter what Ghantasala rendered, you cannot compare him to Rafi at all, they’re poles a part. Ghantasala may be unique among SI singers, but he cannot surprass Rafi, and never will.
The word “collosus” was used in articles for Rafi when he passed away in 1980. You are comparing apples and oranges when you use this term and apply it to Ghantasala. Ghantasala didn’t sing for as many actors, made such a mark on the history of music, or ruled such a wide scene for such a long period with much more competition, compared to the Telegu scene where there was hardly any competition, and on a smaller scale. Ghantasala had competition from PBS and TMS in the South but they sang mostly in their respective languages. Ghantasala did not rule over the SI scene as a whole, like Rafi did over the National scene. You are only talking about Telegu music, and are confined to that. With Rafi you’re talking about the National scene, so you can’t compare at all.
When it comes to SI music, for me SPB and Yesudas will always be more versatile, because they have attempted much more types of songs than Ghantasala. I also feel they are better singers, and that is my view, you don’t have to agree with me. Ghantasala was a great singer no doubt, but was limited in his genres, and I feel there were others better than him not only in the South (as I mentioned SPB and Yesudas), but in general as well, with Rafi leading that pack as the best of them all.
I am not trying to rub my views at all, it seems you are doing that by comparing Ghantasala to Rafi. Rafi is regarded by the majority, including most SI personalities such as SPB, Yesudas, MSV, IR, Jayachandran etc. to be the first and last word in singing , no two ways about that. Even without looking at what others say, one can see the clear difference between the two.
Please don’t compare apples and oranges. Ghantasala may have been a great singer, and is regarded as a legend in the South, but he can never come close to Rafi. Rafi is the greatest and the benchmark. As IR said, “Rafi is Rafi”.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Correction:
The sentence in my last post should read as:
“I can list a thousand quotes by great personalities about Rafi.”
May 8th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Ashu,
You are wrong, in the song “Tere Jaisa Bhai”, Rafi sang for Rishi and KK for Shashi, go and see the video again. In the rest of the songs KK playbacked for Rishi. You are wrong again, KK never had a higher percentage than Rafi in terms of singing for the lead actor.
I can list so many films of that time (including films that have KK singing in them too) where Rafi has sung for the lead actor, but I won’t because its a known fact that Rafi is sang for the lead actor in those films, and debating with you is hilarious. I think you have to enhance your knowledge big time, as all your examples and statements are foolish as usual.
Quoting Javed Akhtar doesn’t make one bit of a difference, I can list a thusand quotes by great personalities about Rafi. The K for Kishore show is a joke, and it also doesn’t make any difference. Again, please provide solid examples other than TV shows and other rubbish.
Your stats are flawed, you mentioned:
“As you know multi-starrer movie were in great demand during late 70s, Kishore was only choice for main male actor(more than 80%)”
80 % is a figure made up by you in your mind, and its far from the truth. I feel sorry that you are spreading false rumours on this site, but only you know why you’re doing that. Rafi was the first and only choice many times for lead actors in multi starrers and other films. I don’t understand your second actor theory. When its a multi-starrer, it means more than one star is in the film, and you can’t term Shashi or Dharmendra or others as second actors when they were lead actors.
Your list of BGM from 75-81 is again FALSE. Naveen stated the truth, and you have yet to reply to my statement about Rafi ruling the BGM from 1979-1981. How does Sargam have anything to do with the late eighties when it was released in 1979 ?.
LOL KK dominating Rafi from 65-68, only you would make such statments. For your info Rafi did dominate KK after 69, whether you want to accept it or not is your choice, but the truth is what it is. Don’t try and bring up the 60’s period in which KK was no where, when you can’t accept facts for what they are, especially the fact that Rafi did dominate KK after 69.
Dharmendra winning awards does not have anything to do with the topic, what are you trying to prove. He was always a lead actor, and was a huge star.
Your knowledge is lacklustre, its all full of false rumours and foolish statements, I feel bad for KK fans who have to listen to a lot of the nonsense you’re writing here. You don’t make a good case for KK at all, sorry to say that.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Vipul, My dear friend sudip,
here is text from Sayani’s interview:
————————————————–
Renowned compere Ameen Sayani sums it up. “He was perhaps the most
versatile singer that the Indian film industry has ever known. He
could handle comedy and pathos. And although he never had any formal
training, he could delve into classical songs as well,” says Sayani.
Then he adds, “I have compered almost all great singers on stage. He
not only sang and danced and pranced but also did somersaults on
stage. But while doing all this, he never went out of tune.”
—————————————————
Sudip,
On popularity…Hope you ahve heard songs from Saawariya (Title songs, Jab se tere Naina, and one more from Parthiv). greatest hit of the years. EVen after 21 yrs, people trying to imitate him, and fyi md was pyarelal(LP) cousin…
May 8th, 2008 at 9:00 am
sudip mere dost…
Poll karane ki jaroorat hai kya????… Aise hi sab kuchh crysal clear hai..
1. Remix songs kis singer ke sabse jyada hai
2. Kis singer ke upper movie ban rahi hai
3. Majority greats kisko pasand karte hai:
1. Sachin Tendulkar 2. Dhoni 3. Shahrukh
(These are 3 great young indians….)
Note: 3rd point is more indivisual choice…..
Vikram, vikram….
I can tell u movie name in which Amitabh paid tribute to Rafi…
Movie name was “Kroadh”…There was Rafi night in which Amitabh played as guest apperance and sang “Rafi tu bahot yaad aaya”…There was fight sequence after this song…..Situation was “EK SHAAM RAFI KE NAAM” jo ki aaj bhi chalta hai…mumbai me….Is me koi great baat nahi. People hold seat to see amitabh bachhan not to hear song,. he played guest appearance to promote the film. I think he has done a great job by playin guest role. rafi was great singer, reminding him through a song by was great idea…
Bhai mere…Rafi ko yaad kiya jaata hai….kyunki log bhool gae hai. Kishore ko bhulaya nahi ja sakata…..
:) When i sent link where Manna Dey mentioned Kishore was best, then u people say he (Manna Dey) twist his comment as per situation. Pls. find Manna Dey interview link which i sent long back, He said Kishore was best….We had enough debate on that…Pls. go back few hundred blog back
I already commented on all ur doubt (u r no different rafi fan) in my blogs. But i would like to comment on followin:
u wrote:
When Kishore was singing for Jeetendra or Dharmendra they were far beyond their prime. It was the sheer magic of Rafi Sahab that propelled some of these actors to stardom. Kishore Kumar was never exclusive to Amitabh or Rajesh Khanna. Rafi has sung so many times for these two. Even Mukesh has sung for them
My reply:
Rafi was established as singer like mukesh and Manna Dey before Kishore.Rafi sang for all actors because he was already there in the industry as singer, even i can say Rafi was never exclusive to any actor. No singer can be exclusive to any actor, but one singer can sing majority of songs for an actor…
Here is few example:
1. Rafi was never exclusive to Dilip Kumar….Talat and Mukesh also playback for him because they were also established as singet those day
2. Mukesh was never exclusive to Raj Kapoor….Manna sang couple of songs
3. Rafi was never exclusive for Shammi Kapoor…manna, kishore sang couple of songs for him.
I can twist ur word like…rafi sang majority of songs for Shammi as Kishore sang majority of songs for Amitabh, Rajehs Khanna, Rishi Kapoor, as Mukesh sang majority of songs for Raj Kapoor….
So mere dost, establish singer always get chance to sing for an actor even though there is an exclusive voice for an actor.
As you know Amitabh is still alive…..but i am sure u might not be knowing that….Kumar sanu, Sonu Nigam, Abhijeet, Shankar and many other sang for Amitabh….I think i have already answered ur baseless logic.
May 8th, 2008 at 8:36 am
vikram,
Mere dost…I believe in my repository and don’t visit YoTUbe…
I have enough collection of my fav. songs in form of Casetter, CDs, DVDs.
So, i don;t visit YouTube…
May 8th, 2008 at 7:39 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbHCTNFNK5k&feature=related
someone was talking about Rafi as flat singer! Lsten to this one and decide. A semi classical gem by Rafi saab.
May 8th, 2008 at 6:41 am
Mr. MYK, Mr. Vitthal and Mr. Gani,
I have seen most of the arguments presented by all of you. I fully correspond to the views of Shri Vitthal ji, i.e. shri ghantasala is the greatest playback singer the country has ever produced. Only persons well versed in telugu language as well as music can know the uniqueness of Shri ghantasala. I have carefully heard the Bhagavad Gita by Shri Ghantasala which was music directed by himself, it is simply a divine and mellifluous/melodious rendering directly hitting at heart making you forget this world. I am sure no such record or presentation exists anywhere.
Mohd. rafi is the greatest playback singer in bollywood. But he cannot be compared to the unmatchable and incomparable ghantasala. Ghantasala had rendered 1000’s of songs of all type of genres and moods, devotional, romantic, tragedy, comedy etc. with complete perfection under the greatest music directors in south. Besides under his own music direction, he has delivered songs and films which ran for 100’s of days. This is not to say mohd. rafi had not, he too had great achievements in his own range, but rafi cannot be similar to ghantasala or near him when presenting/singing the ragas in their classical peak. Ghantasala had his own style and speciality which is of special originial beauty and i have noticed that his voice in some songs is even more melodious and beautiful than instruments. OK, i do not want to argue any further. I request mohd. rafi fans, for more information to log in to mohd. rafi.com and refer to the 100’s of arguments there between ghantasala and rafi. Many Mohd. rafi fans after hearing ghantasala have changed their views of rafi being greatest and their views can be read therein.
There are some well trained musicians also there who have concluded shri ghantasala to be the greatest. Even Mr. Binu nair of rafi foundation states, ghantasala ji is no. 1 in telugu, and rafi sahab is unparalleled in bollywood. This holds good.
Anyhow, i agree to Mr.MYK’s view that mohd. rafi was certainly greater than kishore kumar. Kishore kumar had a good voice, but since people wanted some change, kishore kumar got a good fan following. Rafi’s voice had a mellifluous effect similar to ghantasala in the south, and continues to enjoy huge fan following greater than kishore kumar even date.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Refer to my post 1057
Couple of things Ashu Bhai:
1) Correction: Somvar Ko Ham from Apnapan was not in top 16 but top 32 of BGM.
2) Please excuse my typos in my post
Thanks
May 8th, 2008 at 2:47 am
Ashu forgot one more movied where Rafi sang for Amit — Suhaag.
I am not sure what we all are trying to prove. Lets judge the two singer based on vocal quality.
I mean I hate Bharat Bhushan but I love his songs. How does it matter on whom Song is picturized?
May 8th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Vitthal, Are we comparing Rafi and ghantasala or Rafi and kk? What do you have to say about Rafi-kk comparison?
May 8th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Ashuji,
You say in your 1023 that you never said that :jo best hota hai wohi bikta hai.Will you please re-read your 976 where you have said exactly these words and which you yourself deny in 1023.I would like your response.
Your and Waz’s hypothesis about Abhiman has been forcefully punctured by me.All the arguments proffered by you and other Kishoreans have been cut into pieces by most of the analysts on this forum.And it is not because of any extraordinary skill in argument on our part.Perhaps you are a better debater than all of us.But Rafi’s supremacy is so tangible that it make our task very easy whereas you have to labour hard to invent something in favour of your icon like the farcical Abhiman argument and like eating your own words as in 976 and 1023.
For All
To provide us all comic interlude Ashu has dreamed that Rafi can’t express emotions adquately.The fact is only Rafi can express emotions not just adequately but perfectly.Babul ki duayen leti ja,ja tujhko sukhi sansaar mile.I have seen hundreds of people in tears when this song is played even when there is no wedding qoing on.No better tribute in the form of a song has been paid to Gandhiji than Suno suno ai dunya walo Bapu ki yeh amar kahani.Watan ki rah pe watan ke naujawan shaheed ho is packed with patriotic emotion as Bari der bhai Nand Lala teri rah takein Brijbala.There are emotions of all types in Rafi’s songs.Kishore’s voice was,on the other hand,loud,heavy and coarse,iincapable of expressing any kind of emotions.
And one of the saddest gazals ever written is Bahadur Shah Zafar’s:Na kisi ki aankh ka noor hoon,na kisi ke dil ka chirag hoon.And this gazal has been sung to perfection by Rafi.Ashu,what are your views about this gazal?And I have heard this gazal sung by other gazal singers as well but all fade before Rafi.Ashu,Sudip challenged you to cite two thumris sung by Kishore;I challenge you to cite a couple of immortal gazals like na kisi ki aankh ka noor hoon sung by Kishore.I know you will not address this question because your speciality lies in raising frivolous points.
Sudip, I think there is no disagreement between you and me regarding light singing in movies.For this reason Rafi’s songs sung for Shammi are acceptable as situational requirements but in terms of pure music they are deficient.That is why though I am a great fan of Rafi,I give him 80 to 90 percent marks in terms of pure quality of music.I give Mukesh and Talat almost hundred percent marks not because they were greater than Rafi but because they sang fewer songs and almost all of them are very great.Neither Talat nor Mukesh reaches the heights of Rafi at his best.Talat of course is unique for having sung Mirza Galib.I give only 10 to 20 percent marks to Kishore.Yoodling etc are mere gimmicks and of no worth in enhancing the quality of music.In my college days there were four or five boys who used to do it very well.It just requires a bit of practice.No good singer would waste his time in practising a useless thing like this.Years ago a girl named Milan Singh used to appear in TV entertainment shows and sing in about ten male voices.It didn’t make her a singer,much less a great singer.Such things are alright for momentary party entertainment but of no other value.
I have a feeling that Ashu argues most of the time for the sake of argument.He claims to be a fan of Rafi also and then makes the preposterous assertion that without orchestration Rafi’s voice would sound like that of Suman Kalyanpur.This from someone who claims to have knowledge of music.Maine shayad tumhein pehle bhi kabhi dekha hai is without orchestration and he should know it.
For God’s sake let Ghantasalaji rest in peace.He never sang ghazals,qawallis etc.He never ventured out of his native language.Rafi’s mother tongue was Punjabi and he sang wonderful songs in Punjabi.But he went on to dominate the Hindi film music scene and also sang in regional languages.Whereas Rafi sang even Telugu songs,Ghantasala didn’t sing any Punjabi songs.It is unfair to compare a small time singer to an all time singer and thereby to make the former a scapegoat of one’s whims.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Ashu Bhai,
Ref 1045
Please don’t fret and fume.I hope you meant “pity” and not “pitty”. Sorry for picking at you here but then you aren’t making a lot of sense especially when when it comes to discuss factual things. I again maintain that you had some good points all the while discussing with folks with a different stand than you. With no malice towards you here let’s see how many factual errors you have made in post 1045:
1) Sargam song was on top in 1980 and not 1981(as pointed by you) on Binaca. The same song also featured towards the latter half of 1979 countdown as well.
2) The top song of Apnapan was again “Aadmi Musafir Hai”.It was a Rafi-Lata song and not a Lata only song.It was the top male song of 1978.So your arguement is again based on figment of your imagination rather than any fact. And if think they needed Rafi for Apnapan as it was female dominated,let me also remind you that also needed Kishore for the same Apnapan for Somvar Ko Ham Mile which was also a hit song (featured somewhere in top 16 of Binaca annual).
3) In Aasha, true Lata’s solo was the most popular song of the movie but the entire album was a hit as well.There were Rafi songs from the movie that hit the charts.
4) In Caravan , the top ranking song on Binaca was Asha’s song.Kishore’s solo was also up in rank although there are better Kishore songs that year that didn’t feature in the list.Finally let me tell you that Rafi duets from Carvan also had made it to charts.
It is not necessary that all the hit songs of the movie are featured on annual charts. Do you that Main Ho Mr Anthony Gonzalves from AAA was not even in top 40 of Binaca that year.Isn’t that a everlasting hit song from Kishore and from that movie.
I am not going to go over Pran,Amitabh and Dharam argument at the momemt.Let’s see first if the above clarifies some of the mis-conceptions that you had.
Thanks again
naveen
May 8th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Manna says there is nothing much to sing in kishore’s songs and he rates Rafi as the best. That is what he told me when I met him in 1995. It was just my luck that he spent about 3 hours with me and my parents. Thank you Manna sir!
May 7th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Sudip, I did listen to one of them and it is yodelling (one from Raju Guide).
I will listen to next one later.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Vikarm, In those days kk was more into acting than singing jence he never got time to sing, otherwise you mention any type song just any (classical, semi classical, ghazal, patriotic, Bhanjans, quwallis, folk, high pitch) and kk will dominate Rafi. Check the history man or tell me where you find Rafi superior to kk in any of above categories. Please make sure you provide enough examples to support your claim if you have any.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Ashu,
I don’t get your second lead or first lead logic. Dharmendra has never played second fiddle to anyone. He was as big as Amitabh, and still is. It’s another matter that he is not doing as many films. Your analysis has inadvertently proved that in fact Mohd. rafi was the greatest as he playbacked for Dilip Kumar (there has never been anybody bigger than him), a fact to which even Amitabh and Shahrukh Khan agree wholeheartedly. By the same yardstick you have also proved about Rafi being better then Kishore Kumar as he sang for him a number of times. Dev Anand, Shammi Kapoor, Shashi kapoor, Jeetendra, Rishi Kapoor, Raaj Kumar, Rajendra Kumar, Bishwajeet, Joy Mukherjee, Dilip Kumar, Dharmendra and a host of others were all lead actors. One thing they all had in common was their lip synching to Rafi songs in their heydays. Rafi was the voice of young and suave Dev. He latched on to Kishore Kumar when he became a weirdo in the 70’s and started producing those horrible flicks that nobody wanted to see. When Kishore was singing for Jeetendra or Dharmendra they were far beyond their prime. It was the sheer magic of Rafi Sahab that propelled some of these actors to stardom. Kishore Kumar was never exclusive to Amitabh or Rajesh Khanna. Rafi has sung so many times for these two. Even Mukesh has sung for them. Have you ever heard Amitabh paying tribute to Kishore Kumar in a movie? He did that for Rafi in the song “Mohd. Rafi Tu Bahut Yaad Aaya”.
Here is a link to Manna Deys interview with Shekhar Gupta, Edito-in-chief of the very well respected and widely read daily, The Indian Express.
http://www.indianexpress.com/india-news/full_story.php?content_id=57205&spf=true
When asked about his contemporaries, calls Mohd. Rafi as the icon of playback singing. In fact, he does not even mention other singers in his reponse. Shekhar had to ask him a follow-up question (What about Mukesh and Kishore Kumar?). In response to another question about present day singers he says that Kishore Kumar clones are doing well and in the same breath adds- there was nothing much to sing in Kishore Kumar songs. I think Manna Dey is a better judge on playback singing than you and me or for that matter anybody else on this forum. I have a request to you to not quote obscure sources to prove your point. Rafi fans have always provided reliable evidence to support their viewpoints.
You rave and rant so much about what Asha Has to say about Kishore Kumar. Here is a link to her interview again with Shekhar Gupta. When she talks about contribution to film music, she only mentions Lata and Rafi.
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=236216
She has been situational all her life. She would say different things to different people to keep afloat her desire to stay in the news and further her cause. She made a big deal of Himesh saying that RD Burman was nasal. What was wrong in his statement? Ofcoursre he was nasal. The way Asha responded to it was utter disgusting. She wanted to slap Himesh for saying what he said. If she is so worried about people stating the truth, then she should refrain from spreading lies about Rafi. Please don’t quote Asha as she has vested interests. In the same interview she also lies about her relationship with her mentor OP Nayyar, the guy who made her. She is a habitual lier. I am glad that she despises remixes, a point that you were making to prove Kishore’s greatness.
May 7th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Vipul,
Here are the stats as per Geet Kosh:
1977 - Rafi: 101, Kishore: 147
1978 - Rafi: 91, Kishore: 122
1979 - Rafi: 84, Kishore: 77
1980 - Rafi: 265, Kishore: 126
Rafi’s 1980 totals include the songs that were released after 1980 but recorded before he passed away. Look at the difference in songs in the year 1980. Also they were pretty much even in these four years in terms of songs except for 1980. Also, if you take stats for the whole decade (1970-1980), Rafi and KK have sung almost the same number of songs.
Also, take into consideration what happened on the BGM from 1977 until 1979. Both Rafi and Kishore had many hits and as Naveen pointed out, all the top songs of those years were of Rafi. Then look at what happens between 1979 and 1981, it is mostly a Rafi show all the way on the BGM, very little of Kishore. Anyone who followed the BGM TRENDS during that time or who was a regular listener of the BGM will know this. Those who don’t know about this should refrain from making ignorant comments.
So when Rafi passed away on July 31st, 1980, he was the top singer. Had he lived, he would have continued to dominate just like he did all those years in HFM.
Kishore’s reign as the top singer was only for about four years, you can’t compare this with Rafi’s regin for all those years including after in the late seventies to early eighties, before he passed away.
May 7th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Mr.MYK sir,
I do not agree with your views. In fact they are your own personal views. You have not covered my points regarding the fan following enjoyed by ghantasala today, his bhagavad gita rendition (no such record exists in entire hindusthan) and this has been confirmed by all major musicians.
Another point. Rafi cannot be greatest than ghantasala nor versatile. Ghantasala was a great music director also having composed for over 125 films in the southern languages. Ghantasala had rendered 100s of padyams (a unique verses sung in dramatic style and only part of telugu language) where he is simply incomparable. No singer from the south, even spb , jesudas or the great balamuralikrishna in their entire life have been able to render padyams even equal to 50% of ghantasala. The padyam rendition can be analysed only by people adept in telugu language. Do you know TMS is called as tamil ghantasala and p b srinivas has referred voice of ghantasala as impregnable voice. What does these quotations mean pl.
You can confirm the above points from any musician, spb or jesudas or anybody else from the south. The above facts makes ghantasala unique among the southern singers.
Sir, i am sorry for your views on colossus. I request you to kindly read the Hindu paper of feb. 11 2003, on a tribute to ghantasala. wherein, the word colossus is repeated many times. You can read illayaraja quotes there on ghantasala also. The article states, never music was never in so much harmony as during ghantasala’s time. ghantasala was indeed a colossus (you can confirm this from any southern playback singer). Similarly, mohd. rafi too was.
For your kind information, spb and jesudas indeed sang along with ghantasala, but could not match him at any point of time and had to quit from the telugu field in the late 60’s and 70’s. Pl. do not be under the impression that spb and jesudas were singers after ghantasala. Certainly not. SPB got recognition after 6 years of passing away of ghantasala though spb was in the telugu field for over 15 years earlier. Hardly 10 to 20 songs spb could sing during the tenure of ghantasala, that too with shakiness and great difficulty. And jesudas songs in Sri Krishna satya, (wherein ghantasala had rendered melliflous songs) are no where near ghantasala. Telugu music and songs have never been the same after passing away of ghantasala and cannot be in future.
As rafi is regarded as greatest singer in bollywood, ghantasala is also regarded as greatest and unique in south , not only by his million fans till today but also by other playback singers. You can confirm this fact from spb or jesudas or illayaraja themselves. Without confirming kindly do not try to rub your views pl.
May 7th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Here we are comparing Rafi to everone. Rafi is compaed to Ghantasala.
Raf i is compared to Manna when it comes to classical. Rafi is compared to Suresh Wadkar and Anup Jalota when it comes Bhajans and devotional songs.
Rafi leads the pack when it comes to Patriotic songs. Rafi is compared to Jagjeet Singh and Mehendi Hasan when it comes to Ghazals. Rafi is compared to Mukesh for sad songs. I mean you find Rafi in every category.
KK is not as versatile as Rafi to appear in every category (forget comparing).
Ashu, I think with my limited knowledge of music, I feel Rafi is far far ahaed of kk in terms of versatility. Do you agree?
Please let me know.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Ashu:
Kishore ka popularity mein itna bharosa hai to, why don’t you take a poll here if the two Rafi songs are yodeling? Dekhte hai kitne log (including Kishore fans) agree with you?
They are indeed yodeling and perfect too. Anyone who understands music will tell you so.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Ashu,
Here is the link that I forgot to add in my previous post. Judge for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOUw8AnSBPo&NR=1