An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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May 1st, 2008 at 10:01 pm
My previous post proves that Rafi was more preferred than KK from 1946 till 1951. Thus Rafi was more popular or preferrred till 1971 from 1946. (26 years)
kk was more preferred than Rafi from 1972 to 1976. (5 years) .. I request everyone to put facts (numbers) so that I can enhance my knowlede.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:57 pm
KK as singer from 1946 till 1951
————————————-
Baazi (1951) (Released)
Naujawan (1951) (Released)
Adaa (1951) (Released)
Hamari Shaan (1951) (Released)
Andolan (1951) (Released)
Bahar (1951) (Released)
Ek Nazar (1951) (Released)
Mashaal (1950) (Released)
Rim Jhim (1949) (Released)
Ziddi (1948) (Released)
Shikari (1946) (Released)
Rafi as singer from 1946 to 1951
————————————-
Khazana (1951) (Released)
Bikhare Moti (1951) (Released)
Saiyan (1951) (Released)
Awara (1951) (Released)
Naujawan (1951) (Released)
Sanam (1951) (Released)
Maya Machhindar (1951) (Released)
Jadu (1951) (Released)
Nakhre (1951) (Released)
Saggai (1951) (Released)
Deedar (1951) (Released)
Daman (1951) (Released)
Afsana (1951) (Released)
Sabz Baag (1951) (Released)
Johari (1951) (Released)
Hulchal (1951) (Released)
Hamari Shaan (1951) (Released)
Ek Nazar (1951) (Released)
Shagun (1951) (Released)
Lachak (1951) (Released)
Nazneen (1951) (Released)
Mukhda (1951) (Released)
Nagina (1951) (Released)
Ustad Pedro (1951) (Released)
Stage (1951) (Released)
Kali Ghata (1951) (Released)
Sarkar (1951) (Released)
Rajput (1951) (Released)
Pardes (1950) (Released)
Nirala (1950) (Released)
Bawre Nain (1950) (Released)
Dastan (1950) (Released)
Aankhen (1950) (Released)
Sangram (1950) (Released)
Barsaat (1949) (Released)
Dulari (1949) (Released)
Paras (1949) (Released)
Andaz (1949) (Released)
Naach (1949) (Released)
Roop Lekha (1949) (Released)
Chandni Raat (1949) (Released)
Patanga (1949) (Released)
Dillagi (1949) (Released)
Badi Behan (1949) (Released)
Mela (1948) (Released)
Shaheed (1948) (Released)
Ghar Ki Izzat (1948) (Released)
Pyar Ki Jeet (1948) (Released)
Actress (1948) (Released)
Nadiya Ke Paar (1948) (Released)
Jugnu (1947) (Released)
Shahjehan (1946) (Released)
Anmol Ghadi (1946
May 1st, 2008 at 9:06 pm
#
Kishore was great and at his true best in soft and sad songs.
one can’t imagine Yeh JEEVAN HAI, KAB tak andhere( rajesh roshan compsition, the song is carried by simply voice there was liitlebackground music, no singer has done it!), Aanewala pal, Zindagi ka safar . chhokar mere manko kiya . moreover if you are not carried away from the complex of classical singing you will notice that hume tumse pyar kitana by kishore is more effective than parveen sultana sheerely by emotions put in the song.
It is amyth that rafi made comeback as top in eighties. his songs were more in 1980 in binaca but that is because of Amitkumar shared some numbers of kishore courtosy RDB.
Moreover the best songs in 1977 to 1980 were composed by rajesh roshan , rdb and their best compositions ( Rimzim gire sawan ) are sung by kishore and always this was the case .Occassionally RDB used Rafi for the khoya khoyaa chand versions!. in abdulla best song was not Maine pucha chandse but Ae khuda her faisala tera muze manjjor hai a sad song sung by kishore.
Kishore as regarded as top due to his vice quality which reflevted in songs like KABtak andhere Manko and JEEvanse na har jeenawale imosiible to ever imagine in any other voce.
there were some qualities of Lata and asha in kishore’s voce and exactly complimentary copies from latrta and asha reflected in rafi’s voice.RDB realized it late.
#
928
vitthal Says:
May 1st, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Dear Vipul..
I am trying to enhance ur knowlege for last 3-4 months, but i could not see any progress. Every blog show ur immaturity regarding hindi music…especially toward ur fav. (i am not personal here….don’t misunderstood me).
Here, u wrote:
1947 - 1971 - (25 years) Rafi on Top
1972 -1976 (5 years) . kk on top
1977 - 1980 - Rafi bounced back and myk says that Rafi was more preferred. However I will say both were on top.
So Rafi ruled for 25 years alone and kk for 5.
my reply:
Please enhance ur knowlege…Rafi got his top position in 1952 from Baiju Bawra, and he wasnever top because Talat, Mukesh was another preferred singer. Yes, but he completely dominated hindi music industry till 1967. He started loosing his top position after that, 70 he completely songs though he sang more no. of songs than Kishore.
he was never on top or equal to Kishore from 77-80. Many time i wrote abt these period. Credit goes to LP and RDB who asked him to sing song for Amar Akbar Anthony” and “Hum kisi se kam nahi” due to multi-starrer. People started talking abt rafi again because he got national award/Film fare award for HKSKN and filmfare nomination for AAA…But history says that he never regain his postion after 69
Few paragraph from recognized site abt Rafi:
——————————————————————–
Between 1950 and 1970, Rafi was the most sought after singer in Bollywood, some say, at the expense of the careers of contemporaries like Manna Dey, Talat Mahmood, and Hemant Kumar.
——————————————————————–
Few movie, Rafi landed his voice aftre 76…
—————————————————————–
like Amar Akbar Anthony (1977), Sargam (1979) and Karz (1980). The qawwali Pardah Hai Pardah from Amar Akbar Anthony (1977) was a superhit. Rafi gave many other hit songs in late 1970s and early 80s, notably for the films Laila Majnu (1976), Apnapan (1978), Qurbani, Dostana (1980) The Burning Train (1980) Naseeb (1981) Abdullah (1980) Shaan (1980) and Asha (1980)
—————————————————————-
Rafi never dominated Kishore during 77-80….Sargam, Laila Majnu are only 2 movies i remember where he sang majority of songs
May 1st, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Dear Waz,
Ur observation is 100% right…I have posted my thought on same song from “ABHIMAAN” few month back, and i am sure Rafians will not agree to it…Who cares…
But i would like to correct u..”Loote koi man ka nagar” was sung by Manhar, not Mukesh..Actually this song was supposed to sing by Mukesh, but due to his unavailability it went to Manhar….
dear myk,
U wrote:
Kishore was a great actor, but he could not compete with the big-time heroes
My reply:
….
He was great comic actor, and i am sure he will stand no.1 or 2 in comic role…There was survey on comic role on M TV 3 year ago…Kishore and Mehmood stood first.
and ha…u wrote that SDB said Kishore that he can’t be Rafi…U r right KK could not be Rafi…If he had followed rafi then he might have lost like Mahendra kapoor, Mukesh , Manna dey…..He dethroned Rafi, because he was Kishore not Rafi
I already posted RDb interview link where he said How rafi went wrong with “AA JA main hu pyaar Tera”. He said Kishore was best.
Not only he, Lata(People refer her sangeet ki Saraswati), Asha said numerous times that Kishore was their best.. Of course it was their own choice.
Reason i gave more importance to them, because they spend almost 40 yrs singing with each other, so they know who is really best…
May 1st, 2008 at 9:14 am
Waz:
I have been refraining from the argument on why and how Kishore eclipsed Rafi in the early 70s. There are several theories floating around-right from Rafi going to Haj to RDB unfairly favoring Kishore and giving him a break “using” Sharmila Tagore’s sex appeal in Roop Tera Mastana. Personally I am not a big believer in any of these theories. Fact is, Kishore was singing very well, he was a fresh, new voice, let us accept that.
I also accept the fact that Kishore had a great voice. Though attributes like sexiness, naughtiness, etc are very subjective opinions(one can say Talat was “sexy”), let us honor that Kishore can sound golden to a lot of people.
But extending these attributes to claim he was the “greatest male singer ever” is preposterous. For whatever reason, Rafi’s “active” singing career was longer than Kishore and hence he ended up delivering more gems. For a moment imagine the songs of Kishore did not happen at all.. It will no doubt be a big dent. But if you take off songs of Rafi from the history, Hindi film music would be possibly be in coma. The way I look at “greatest singer” is the singer with greatest contribution.
There are some subtle qualities in Rafi that make him unique. These have been dealt with in this forum number of times, but I’ll still repeat. He had the unique ability to sound different in different songs. The Rafi of “Aaye bahaar banke” (high pitch pathos) is 180 degrees different from the Rafi of “Tumse kahoon ek baat” (lowest pitch delirium). Rafi also had the unique ability to convey mixed feelings in a song. Take “Meri dushman tu mere” (Aaye din bahaar ke). It is a sad song but with a lot of caustic hatred and sarcasm towards the betrayer mixed into it. At the same time the hero wanted her lover back-that’s why he is singing. It is almost impossible to convey 3 feelings in one song. Rafi manages to do that, making the song a gem.
Kishore had the unique ability to simplify a song and popularize it. One can argue that this is what made him the greatest. There are tons of Rafi songs which were qualitatively great, not popular. A person of my taste would argue that this very “elitism” makes Rafi the greatest because he did not damage the sanctity of songs and gave songs their rightful place..Take two songs of the same mood-”Chingari koi bhadke” and “Hum bekhudi mein”. Chingari is no doubt more popular. It is played in pandals, weddings, parties, birthdays, picnic…everywhere..Kishore’s camp would argue that this was Kishore’da’s greatness. Rafi’s side of the camp would argue that Rafi did the right treatment to Hum bekhudi mein and hence made sure the song does not get diluted from its position of sublimity. Similarly, take “Aa chalke tujhe” (Door gagan ki chhayon mein) versus “Mujhe le chalo” (Sharabi). Both the songs involve a dreamer’s reflection of the land of love. Kishore’s number is more popular; even to my ears. But is it the better number? No..”Mujhe le chalo” is any day a qualitatively better number to me..It brings tears to any sensitive soul.
Rafi’s treatment to each song was unique. Each Rafi song has its distinct place in history. “Main jat yamla” and “Badan pe sitare” are in their rightful positions. So are “kahin ek masoom, nazuk si ladki” and “Aaye na balam”..There is no blending of genres. Lack of this is what I considered Kishore’s singularity of approach.
People may not agree with my taste, nor do they have to.. But that was my 2 cents.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:24 am
Myk,
Do you honestly think that if the Aradhana songs were rendered in Rafi’s usual, voice for every other actor, routine voice - that Rajesh Khanna would stand out like he did? I don’t. If it wasn’t for Kishore, Rajesh Khanna would be no different than the other actors who synced to Rafi.
Why is it that Rafi’s heroes were all #2s in the 70s? Dharmendra and Jeetendra were no where NEAR Rajesh Khanna. Dharmendra foolishly opted for Rafi and that is why he remained #2 to Rajesh Khanna. Kishore Kumar made the difference! Rajesh Khanna even credited all his success to Kishore! Of course, this kind tribute isn’t to deny that RK had impact for Kishore as well. And I’m not saying that singing for the #1 hero makes you the best. However, being the key ingredient (even in a joint effort) to making one star stand out tall from the rest - shows the impact and magic of Kishore Kumar.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:21 am
mohd rafi arguably the greatest singer of all time..i could have written inarguably if the industry hadn’t seen the magic and sheer class of kishore da..i have been observing the comments.its heart rending to see how people here took all the credit of kishore’s success and attributed it to Rafi’s break from singing.it practically never happenend..
people have been saying that kishore was not a hit pre aradhna.not singing for top notch stars like shammi, raj kapoor and rajendra kumar doesn’t mean that he was job less..he had his share of success though not as huge as rafi’s at that time..
but wat about songs:
1. piya piya piya with asha
2. 1 larki bheegi bhaagi si
3. hum the wo the aur samaa rangeen
4. ye dard bhara afsana
5. aankhon ankhon mien with asha
6. mere pyaase mann ki bahaar with asha
7. chotti si ye dunia
8. ajnabi tum jaane pehchaane
9. nakhre wali
10. ye raatien ye mausam
11. gaata rahe mera dil
12. kehna hai aj
13. mere saamne wali
14. eena meena deeka
15. zarurat hai zarurat
to name the few.
as far as SDP issue goes. let me answer this question with an evidence that who is a greater singer and believe me its no joke. have u guys seen the 1973 hit abhimaan starring amitabh and jaya bachchan. in that film they have played husband and wife. in that kishore has sung two songs meet na mila re mann ka before their wedding in the movie and tere mere milan ki ye rena (a gr8 song indeed) when jaya had left singing and comes back for a stage performance. but on their wedding function the outstanding song teri bindiya re sung by rafi n lata comes after which david says: “jaya amit se acha gaati hai” so that song was sung by rafi not kishore because director had to show a female singer is better than a male one and lata can never over haul kishore. even in loote koi mann ka nagar mukesh’s voice is used not kishore’s.
because they had to show a better female voice and when they had to show a better male voice then they pitted lata’s voice against kishore’s. do you still call the director, music director and lyricist an idiot.
giving due respect to rafi. he is a gr8 singer but kishore was a sheer talent. he had resonance, echo, passion, enthusiasm, sexiness,naughtiness, vigour, boldness and charm in his voice which nobody had and nobody will have.
May 1st, 2008 at 1:47 am
myk, It will be still nice to get the numbers from 1972 to 1980 (if you have) for Rafi and kk. (just for my knowledge).. Thanks….
May 1st, 2008 at 12:58 am
Opinion is one thing and fact is another thing. Lata could perfer kk and Maana could prefer Rafi. It is their opinion.
Fact is Rafi was ruling Hindi music for longer time than kk.
1947 - 1971 - (25 years) Rafi on Top
1972 -1976 (5 years) . kk on top
1977 - 1980 - Rafi bounced back and myk says that Rafi was more preferred. However I will say both were on top.
So Rafi ruled for 25 years alone and kk for 5.
That gives the answer. I guess it is simple math rite Ashu?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Dear Ashu,
You wrote:
“Does it has any relation with Kishore’s greatness? He was the only singer who manage to dethrone Rafi. He was one of the best actor during those year, and if you check his songs, all are hits and melodious picturised on Dev Anand and himself.”
My response is YES it does IF you want to compare Kishore to Rafi in terms of singing. If you don’t, then it doesn’t make a difference. I don’t understand the need for a comparison. It’s not fair on any grounds, so why compare ?. It’s great when one is talking about Kishore’s traits as a singer, but when comparing him to Rafi comes into the picture, is where things go wrong. Also, if you ask the majority of singers, MD’s, musicians who the greatest is, the answer will be Rafi, its a fact, nothing can alter that. There was a recent Outlook Poll, which had all celebrity MD’s, musicians, singers, lyricists etc. on the panel, and it was voted that Rafi and Lata were the best singers of all time. Going by a few articles of Lata saying she likes KK the most doesn’t change the fact that Lata thinks Rafi is the best. She’s said it many a times, and there’s always going to be articles here and there mentioning something else. Same applies to articles where other celebs mention something else too. ALSO, there are times when journalists add their own influences into their articles too. Agreed everyone has their favourites, but it can’t alter the fact that Rafi is the greatest and that the majority think so as well.
Kishore was a great actor, but he could not compete with the big-time heroes of the day. He was a genre actor, great in his particular genre, which was mostly comedy. Yes his songs were hits filmed on himself, as well as on Dev, YET he could not make it big as a singer despite those hits. I don’t think KK would have chosen acting over singing when singing was his first love and when he came to the industry to be a singer. He had to wait a long time, and he never dethroned Rafi in any way possible. Even after Aradhana, I don’t think you can call that dethroning by any means. If you want to unfairly compare him to Rafi, why leave out the period where he could not compete against him ?. When Aradhana came around, Rafi left the country or SDB would never have given those songs to KK. SDB was in a dillema, his singer of first choice Rafi was out of town after recording two duets with him for Aradhana, and Shakti Samantha wanted the songs to be recorded right away. It so happened that KK’s voice clicked on RK and KK became popular from that point onwards. Rafi was King, there was never any question of dethroning him, its just that KK’s singing career got a boost and that was great for Kishore. Even in the peak KK period, 1972-76, there is no question of dethroning Rafi in any way. KK’s wave came and went, it wasn’t a stronghold, like Rafi had for all those years on the music scene. Rafi cut down on his assignments which is why KK was able to enjoy his peak period, had that not happened, I’m sure history would have been written a different way. What happened from 1977-1980, everyone knows. This is not to say KK’s talent didn’t take him far, it certainly did, and he was a talented singer, but you can’t compare him or any singer to Rafi, its impossible.
How about SDB switching over to Rafi for Dev when KK was available ?. When KK could not break in as a singer, he resorted to acting, and said he would only sing for Dev Anand outside of himself. Yet SDB never went to KK for any songs between 1958-1964 filmed on Dev, until KK had to ask SDB for some songs of Teen Devian which is how he got those 4 songs in that film. Even SDB told Kishore, that he could never be a Rafi, this coming from his own mentor was indeed the truth. Kishore himself accepted Rafi as the greatest, and even RDB knew that as well, so why compare KK to Rafi at all ?. Leave aside comparing, its not hard to see and realize that Rafi is miles ahead of anyone when it comes to singing.
KK was a great singer within his own range, but its foolish to compare him to Rafi who’s miles, head and shoulders above all. Why do fans of every singer compare their idol to Rafi ?. That shows Rafi is the best, but please don’t compare apples and oranges.
This is the first time I’m coming across a KK fan who likes KK’s voice better under RR than RDB. RR was able to extract something different from KK’s voice that RDB could not, and he also brought out the softer side of KK’s voice the best too.
Just to add on RR’s use of Rafi’s and Kishore’s vocals. Rafi also playbacked for Jeetendra in Swarg Narak as well as Priyatama. Yes, RR used Rafi for multi-starrers too, but he also used him for many other situations as well.
Ashu, I am curious to know, what are your views on Rajesh Roshan the music director, and how do you rate him compared to RDB ?.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
KK is good, no questions. But does he deserve to be compared with Rafisahab in terms of vocal quality/ clarity/ range/modulation, sheer range of moods and expressions et al? Personally speaking, much of KK’s success can be attributed to the fact that he was different from others (esp. Rafi sahab) and people were looking for something different in the early ’70s (as is apparent from the change of guards every where in Hindi filmdom). It wouldn’t be incorrect to conclude that KK was because of Rafisahab but Rafisahab was because of his own greatness.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:09 am
dear myk,
u were absolutely right that RR composed best Kishore-Rafi duets.
I like Kishore vocal under RR better than RDB.
especially..
- YAADON ME WO SPANO ME HAI
- THODA HAI THODE KI
- NAZRANA BHEJA KISI NE PYAAR KA
- O YAARA, Tu PYAARO SE HAI PYAARA.
U asked:
In my last post I mentioned where was KK “20 years back” ?. 20 is just a number, I could have written 20 + or 30 + years, the point is where was KK “all those years” back. Also, those years were a huge number of years, it wasn’t little, KK had to wait a very long time for a break,
my reply:
Does it has any relation with Kishore’s greatness? He was the only singer who manage to dethrone Rafi. He was one of the best actor during those year, and if you check his songs, all are hits and melodious picturised on Dev Anand and himself….
I hope i answer ur question:
April 30th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Sudip,..
Continuation to last blog………..
U wrote, in RR case, it is actor driven.
Can you answer following question?
1. Why RR selected “KISHORE” for Mehmood in KUNWARA BAAP
2. If his choice was actor driven, then why rafi sang for AMitabh in “MR Natwarlal” - “OONCHI OONCHI BAATON SE” under RR composition
3. Why RR always went to Rafi when there is multi-statrrer cast
like “AAP KE DEEANE”, “SWAYAMVAR”
4. Why kishore sang for “Jeetendra” in “SWARG NARAK”, “PRIYATAMA” etc.
Again, above points just to highlight ur baseless observation.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:00 am
In my last post I mentioned where was KK “20 years back” ?. 20 is just a number, I could have written 20 + or 30 + years, the point is where was KK “all those years” back. Also, those years were a huge number of years, it wasn’t little, KK had to wait a very long time for a break, and if he was as talented as Rafi, he should have gotten that break much earlier.
Rajesh Roshan was an MD who brought the best out of Rafi and Kishore either together or individually. In my view, he has composed the best Rafi-KK duets. I also feel he was KK’s best MD from 1975 onwards, and one of Rafi’s best latter-day MD’s as well.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:53 am
sudip,
i can just laugh on ur comments.
Can u send me reliable source link or anything where Raj Kapoor said “Rafi was his fav., and not mukesh”?
Waiting for reply….
In case of Rajesh Roshan, If i go with ur word then producer(Mehmood) might have asked RR to compose song “Saj rahi gaali meri maaa” with Rafi’s vocal, same would be true in case of “Bishan chacha” from YAARANA.
My dear friend, e sab khayali pulao hai….difficult to digest….
Another example:
Let’s take ..
1. Naushad, his fav. was Rafi. Most of his composition had Rafi;s voice..
2. RDB, his fav. was Kishore. Most of his composition had Kishore’s voice
3. Madan Mohan, O P Nayar, Ravi: true in case of Rafi
4. Khayyam: Mukesh is his fav, so most of his composition had mukesh’s voice
so my dear friend, on-screen loyalty should reflect a person’s choice. It is true in most of the cases except few split personalities
You still did not reply my question. As far as my knowledge, till 80s MDs had always upper hand on producer or director unlike today.
best example are
- SDB asked Kishore to sing for Dilip Kumar, not Rafi in SAGINA.
- SDB asked kishore to sing for Rajkapoor, not Mukesh
- LP asked Kishore to sing one song from AABA
- LP asked Mukesh to sing all songs from “MILAN” and “DHARATI KAHE PUKAR KE”, not rafi
I hope all above example of more than enough to ur baseless observation….
Note: Everyone has their own fav., it doesn’t mean he is best….
- Kavita says, Manna dey is her fav.
- Alka says, Kishore is her fav.
- Lata says, Kishore, she like most
- Asha says, Kishore, she like most
- Sonu nigam says, Rafi, he like most
- RDB says, Kishore is best
- Rahat fateh says, Nusrat is best
summary is, every indivisual has their own fav., best is always best like Kishore…People are making money by remixing his song, telecasting music episode on him, and producing movie on him. Is there any singer who got this kind of privilage.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Gani,
It doesn’t matter how many takes Rafi took to sing the “Suvarna Sundari” song, I doubt it was as high as you mentioned, because he was a master singer, and he couldn’t have taken that much takes, Ghantasala I think could have taken that much takes, as he wasn’t in the same league as Rafi. Rafi’s version of the “Suvarna Sundari” song is my view is better than the Telegu version by Ghantasala, and Rafi’s version of “Chal Ud Ja Re Panchi” is also better than the Ghantasala version. Even if Ghantasala sang his version of “Chal Ud Ja Re Panchi” at a higher pitch, it doesn’t prove anything, Rafi was still the better singer, and also had a much wider range than Ghantasala (i.e could sing at a much higher pitch than him).
I am still firm in my view that SPB and Yesudas are greater than Ghantasala. Ghantasala’s repetoire doesn’t have as much variety as the other two, and I have heard a lot of songs of southern singers. Rafi is head and shoulders above all singers. I don’t understand why Ghantasala or Kishore or any singer is compared to Rafi, its like comparing apples and oranges, Rafi is in his own league and class.
————–
Sudip, Thanks for the info about RR, its a fact that the majority consider Rafi the greatest. Some nitpicking of Pyarelal’s words, or other articles, or changing around of some words by KK fans won’t alter the truth. Pyarelal many a times has mentioned Rafi is the ultimate and so have the majority of musicians, MD’s etc. Kishore even considered Rafi to be the greatest as did Mukesh, Talat, Manna etc., and here KK fans are trying to prove their idol is one up, which they never will be able to prove because its not true and can never be true, so all their time and effort is going to waste.
It is wrong to say 90 % of RR’s songs were sung by Kishore. From 1974-1980, Rafi and KK were used pretty evenly by RR, there are many great and popular Rafi songs from RR films such as Inkaar, Aap Ke Deewane, Mr. Natwarlal, Kaala Patthar, Man Pasand, Jay Vijay, Ek Hi Raasta and so forth.
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Just to touch upon Rafi’s voice on Rajesh Khanna, many of the songs Rafi sang for RK before Aradhana were hits. Had Rafi sung those Aradhana songs they would have been super popular and big hits as well, and KK is lucky he got the chance to sing those songs. What does Raj P mean by RK would have become another Jeetendra if Rafi had sang those Aradhana songs ?. This is false, because Jeetu was a huge star, the fact is Rafi sang for everyone, all the big stars, including RK and AB, two actors associated with KK, and the reverse can’t be said about KK, he never sang for more than half of the Rafi stars. Had Rafi sang those Aradhana songs it would have been amazing and RK would have shot to fame, the way he did. Remember, around the time of Aradhana, we had Do Raaste, Aan Milo Sajna, Mehboob Ki Mehndi, The Train, Sacha Jhoota and films after all with Rafi on RK, which was part of his superstar wave, and which added to his superstar aura, so to say he would not have been as successful had Rafi sang those Aradhana songs for him is false, because his songs from Aradhana and other films at that time was a part of the RK superstar wave and charm, and added to RK’s superstar status. These KK and Rafi songs added big time to RK’s superstar status, besides his acting. If Rafi sang the whole Aradhana score, it would have been a killer score. KK in my view didn’t do enough justice to “Mere Sapno Ki Rani” and “Kora Kagaz Tha”, whereas with “Roop Tera Mastana”, he sang it well. Rafi’s two duets were excellent.
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I don’t understand this idea of KK being the only one to challenge or dethrone Rafi. No one challenged, or could challenge, or dethroned Rafi, in any way. Where was KK 20 years back ?. Oh, wait he was acting right ?. Wrong !. He wanted to sing, but no one was willing to give him a chance, so he chose to act and only sing for SDB. For a person who came to Mumbai to be a singer, and who’s first love was singing, do KK fans actually think he would choose acting over singing if he got the chance to sing ?. The logic is all messed up, the truth is he could not get a break, and had to wait until Rafi went out of town for Aradhana and SDB gave him those songs. If that’s what you call dethroning, Rafi out of the country, then may you find the right path. If he could have dethroned Rafi, he should have done it 20 years back, but he couldn’t, that’s what KK fans do not want to accept. KK became popular, it was a trend, there is no way he dethroned or was better than Rafi in any way. By 1970, Rafi and Lata were the benchmarks in singing, they had already proven they were the best, there was nothing left to prove, and KK surely could not reach those standards.
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Vipul,
We don’t need the Rafi and KK quantity lists from 1947-1980, KK is virtually no where in terms of quantity until the 70’s. From 72-76 he’s leading but not by a lot, and from 1977-1980 Rafi sang more than Kishore, the stats are there to prove it. Someone mentioned percentage of hits, in 1971 (besides all previous years) Rafi had more hits than KK amidst the so called KK wave, from 72-76 KK may have had more hits, because Rafi cut down on his singing himself, and not due to anything else, and YET Rafi had many hits during this time, even when he cut down on his singing. From 1977-1980, Rafi and KK had many hits, and come 1979-1981, KK is hardly found on the BGM, its Rafi everywhere, very little of KK, those who were around at that time and listened to the BGM and knew the trends will know, and yet KK fans mention their idol ruled the 70’s, how ignorant is that.
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Kishore was a great singer, but please don’t compare him to Rafi, this is where you’ll go very wrong. The more KK fans try and defend their case, the worse it gets.
April 29th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
ASHU WROTE:
“I have one question for you:
- Let’s say, you are a director, and you are accessible to any actor in this industry. Whom you like to direct?
Of course you like to go ahead with your fav.
For e.g. if i am director, i would like to make all my movie with Amitabh..
…another e.g.
1. Manmohan Desai tried to make all his movie with Amitabh
2. Yash Chopra direct movie for Amitabh and Shahrukh. It means his fav. is amitabh.
Same would be true in case of Rajesh ROshan. I wou
If he is so fond of Rafi then why Kishore sang his 90% songs..Any songs u remember of RR tune, you can find only Kishore. he also used Rafi in few composition:”
SO YOU ARE SAYING HE WAS DRUNK OR LYING WHEN HE SPOKE..IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT QUESTION WAS ASKED, THERE IS ONLY ONE INTERPRETATION OF “FAVOURITE SINGER”
I wrote about this earlier too. The assumption is too simplistic that if someone is my favorite singer I will give him/her majority of the songs.
1. First of all, Hindi film music lineups are decided mostly by producer (and the bhais behind him). I am not saying that happened in Rajesh Roshan-Kishore case, but lets face it. Kishore was commercially successful in the 70s. Producers would definitely put money on him-does not mean he was qualitatively best or anything.
2. We have seen enough examples where the on-screen loyalty did not reflect a person’s choice. Example:
-Rafi was Raj Kapoor’s favourite singer. After Rafi’s death Raj Kapoor stated “n the world of music, the uncrowned king of singing has left us”..
How many songs did Raj Kapoor give to the “uncrowned king”? Hardly anything, right?
-Mukesh was Kalyanji Anandji’s favourite singer. But Kishore sang 281 numbers with them, Rafi 182 and Mukesh 91! What does that say?
-Naushad’s favourite female singer was Noor Jehan and not Lata. What do the numbers say?
-Hemant Kumar’s favourite singer was Rafi. Why did he choose Kishore for “Woh shaam kuch..”?
There are no simple answers to these… In Rajesh Roshan’s case I guess it was primarily actor driven.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
ref to p 970::
gani sahab,
yes indeed there is no comparison between one who is trained in hindustani classical and other who is in carnatic, as we all know how much these two branches of classical music differs, so its not fair to compare ghantasala and rafi on the basis of their classy songs, rafi was also very well trained in hindustani music, he had delivered many of the best classical songs of hfm…. my question to you is have you ever experienced any singer who could sing in so much genre in best possible way, i mean where is ghantasala in quawwalis and rock ‘n’ rolls where rafi delivered so well, rafi was perfect playback voice, infact the best playback voice….
iam a big fan of maestros like naushad,sdb,sj,mm who were the mentors and idols to the younger line generation of composers and shaped the careers of every great singer from rafi to lata to mukesh to kishore and all of them termed rafi as their favorite and best … kishore was also the big fan of the “rafi phenomenon” that is only why he paid the tribute to the rafi by singing “mann re tu kahe na” in one of his concerts, i never heard kishore paying tribute to any other singer(among his contemporaries),kishore also delivered one of the rafi’s song in filmfare awards function when he got award for thodi si bewafai, all these great maestros considerd rafi as best but kishore fans think they know more than these maestros …
regarding lata’s comment, i have with me her shradhanjali series where she mentioned kishore as “sampoorna kalakar(nothing more) ” which he was, she never said kishore is greatest singer in any of her tv or audio interview, lata was die hard sehgal fan and sehgal also appreciated rafi most among the male singers…
mr.ashu,
you said that kishore outshines lata in “tum aa gaye ho”, but i don’t think so, this song is perfect example of lata outshining kishore with her sweet voice … but kishore too sometimes outshines lata in very few of their duets, here is one of the such duets where i think kishore was better…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1yXwA7MgFYM
and here is something for music lovers, superb song in the vocals of talat, music by great c ramchandra..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pFe9UMI2-LU
April 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Sudip.
Reply to ur blog on LP:
Here is few line from Pyarela’s interview:
Fav. singer:
————-
For Pyarelal, there is no better male singer than Mohammad Rafi. Kishore Kumar came a close second.
Note: Rafi and Lata helped LP for their first break, so they are hughly obeliged to them. But he never forget to mention CLOSE SECOND unlike others.
Abt Lata:
———–
We were a great admirer of her talent. Our only regret was Lataji could not sing in male voice!” he laughed.
WHat does bold line means? He means Lata is better than Kishore and Rafi
Note: Whom can we listen? Every indivisual has their own fav. like u and me.
Best thing to judge best is….
1. Who is still popular
2. Whose songs are more popular
Abt my last blog on Rajesh Roshan..
For god sake, don;t say all the songs sung by Rafi under Rajesh Roshan composition was toughest songs.
I would like to add one more song of Rafi under RR from movie “YAARANA”
“bishan chaha”
April 29th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I have one question for you:
- Let’s say, you are a director, and you are accessible to any actor in this industry. Whom you like to direct?
Of course you like to go ahead with your fav.
For e.g. if i am director, i would like to make all my movie with Amitabh..
…another e.g.
1. Manmohan Desai tried to make all his movie with Amitabh
2. Yash Chopra direct movie for Amitabh and Shahrukh. It means his fav. is amitabh.
Same would be true in case of Rajesh ROshan. I wou
If he is so fond of Rafi then why Kishore sang his 90% songs..Any songs u remember of RR tune, you can find only Kishore. he also used Rafi in few composition:
1. Mujhe chhooo rahi hai
2. Saj rahi galli
and few…
He gave numerouos great songs to Kishore.
My personal fav.:
1. O yaara tum pyaaro se hai pyaara
2. Yaadon me sapno me hai
3. thoda hai thode ki jaroorat hai
4. kahte sunte baaton baaton me pyaar
Is there any match to these songs…..
Before i sign off:
I comment on link published by you:
…I would like to know the exact question asked to him against which he replied following line:
Every song will have a different singer. If I have one regret today, it is that my favourite singer Rafi is not there and Lata is not singing much
Here is the link:
http://www.india-forums.com/tellybuzz/article.asp?id=185
- Best singer is Kishore - shekhar
http://www.hindisong.com/Interview/Interview.asp?ContentID=928&cID=1766
- KK said Kishore is best
April 29th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Ashu:
You haven’t even understood the context of the Pyarelal quote I provided.
My quote has nothing to do with Kishore. Since you did not catch the nuance, let me repeat the context:
Lata mentioned most of Rafi’s songs were good. Pyarelal mentioned ALL his songs are good. So clearly there is a disagreement.
BTW, who is Rajesh Roshan’s favourite singer again?? Hello…………
April 29th, 2008 at 11:16 am
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2007/06/29/stories/2007062950770100.htm
Rajesh Roshan:” If I have one regret today, it is that my favourite singer Rafi is not there and Lata is not singing much.”
ASHU: Now you can put Rajesh Roshan in the same bracket as AR Rahman
April 29th, 2008 at 9:25 am
My dear friend Vikram,
I pity on you when you said “I am insecure”..
If you are fan of someone, then it is possible to keep record of all the things.
You are right, nobody need to prove anything abt rafi or kishore. World knows abt them.
Pls. listen “Yaad na jaaye” not as Rafi fan but as music lover, i will reliaze his voice had “Kharash” in “YAAD” and “JAAYE”. I was surprised because his voice was kharas not once but many time in same songs. I can give many example like this
Note: “Yaad na jaaye” is one of my fav. rafi’s song.
Boss, i have big collection of Rafi. and i am not frustrated, pls. read ur last blog..You will face the truth.
You are not one…there are many rafians who spread wrong information to console themselves like..
1. Kishore sang many songs in chorous (u r an exceptional)
2. Kishore went off key and blah blah
Dear Vikram, sometime u should think abt others. As u felt hurting Rafi’s legacy by discussing his pious name in a debate so as we. Why don’t you see other aspect of coin. You will reliaze other also felt the same…
April 29th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Let me start with Sudip…
Dear Sudip…
I don’t know how you guys are cooking up stories.
You wrote one paragraph on Rafi and Pyarelal. I have published a link on Pyaelal interview few month ago, he said nice thing abt legends, he accepted that Rafi is his fav., but he did not forget to mention Kishore. Abt lata, he said he regret that Lata could not sing in Male voice.>/b>
I want you to explain above bold line…
And i completely respect Pyarelal opinion…Why pyarelal, i respect ur opinion, and Asha (Kishore is best) too…
Most of the time, you rafians pretend that you know music better than anybody else, and always tried to degrade Kishore’s talent and his achievement. Why you forget one thing, Rafi was on top for many year though there were so many great singers like Manna dey, Talat, Mukesh….They could not compete with Rafi, but it was Kishore who not only compete with him but also dethrone him..
– Dhani Ram…
- sudip, i would like to alter ur example with express train-Rafi and aeroplane-Kishore (both are mode of transporation like music)].
I remember last month when there was debate on Asha duets with rafi and Kishore…U said (in fact u lie) u don;t know much abt Kishore and Asha duets. and now i am surprised to read you mentioning “Yeh hawa yeh nadi ka kinara,kishti ka khamosh safar hai”. I feel great at least u started listening kishore
DHani Ramji…Jo best hota hai wohi bikta hai…Kishore is still on the top in Hindi fimi music since 69 [This is my reply to SUDIP in the context of “express and local train”
Dhaniram, Can you send few songs where u felt kishore = badly trails to Lata?
Here are few songs where Kishore is 100 times better than Lata..
1. Ghum hai kisi ke pyaar me..
2. E mousam aaye hai, kitne saalo me
3. Salame ishq meri jaan
4. tum aa gaye ho..(kishore entry was awesome)
5. aa re aa ja…nindiya tu le chal kahi
6. waada karo nahi chhodi gi tum mera saath
7. aapki aankho me kuchh
8. sarkati jaaye hai rukh se naqab
(though Lata put great effort especially when she sang “ahista ahista”, but kishore dominate the show)
9. pukaro mujhe phir pukaro
dhaniramji, i think i already answered ur doubt.