An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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May 18th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Kishoreda is the all time greatest singer and genius,comic hero of India.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k2/aug/aug42.htm
HERE IS THE LINK OF THE ABOVE ARTICLE,YOU CAN CHECK.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Eternal Dreams to scout for singing talent every year
Indiantelevision.com Team
(8 August 2002 5:00 pm)
MUMBAI: Eternal Dreams, a media company promoted by Sapna Chaturvedi, is seeking to honour bards.
And it is doing it in memory of India’s greatest singer ever, the eternal Kishore Kumar. The company, which has been slowly but surely working on turning around the Rathikant Basu promoted Tara Marathi and Bengali, has initiated the Kishore Kumar Award - which will honour two singing talents each year: one for established singers and the other for a new voice who can recreate the magic of the Maestro, Kishore Kumar.
Some permanent members of the jury who will judge the entries include: Amit Kumar, Kishan Kumar of T Series, Ratan Jain of Venus, Kumar S Taurani of Tips, Ekta Kapoor of Balaji Telefilms, Praveen Shah of Time and music directors Dabboo Malik and Himesh Reshammiya. Apart from these, there will be other members who will be decided each year prior to the selections.
Chaturvedi says Eternal Dreams will handle the winners’ careers for six months. “We hope to present the Indian music industry with some exceptional talents in the coming years,”she adds. The award was unveiled by film star Jeetendra at a musical extravaganza based on the songs of Kishoreda last weekend. Among the singers who turned up and crooned at no cost included Kumar Sanu, Vinod Rathod, Babul Supriyo, Shaan and Dabboo Malik. Making his debut on stage was Kishore Kumar’s youngest son Sumeet Kumar, who enthralled the audience with his promising performance.
Balaji Telefilms chairman Jeetendra Kappor (extreme left) and Eternal Dreams MD Sapna Chaturvedi (extreme right) at the musical extravaganza last weekend
The surprise discovery of the evening, however, was Pankaj Chaturvedi, a singer who wears two hats with the ease of a magician. Pankaj who evoked nostalgic memories of Kishoreda with the best of his memorable numbers is also the CEO of Baskin Robbins (South Asia), the largest international ice cream chain in India.
The show, a tribute to Kishore Kumar, is to be aired on DD Metro and has the backing of Tide detergent, Dabur and Win 94.6 with Regent Hotels being the hospitality partner.
READ THIS ARTICLE ,HERE IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN THAT KISHORE KUMAR IS THE GREATEST SINGER OF ALL TIMES.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/prodigy/299/
Look at this website,here it is clearly written that Kishore Kumar is the greatest singer of all times.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Undoubtedly Kishore Kumar is far ahead than Rafi.Zeenath,are you mad?Yesudas is like a dust in front of giant Kishoreda.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Jayanta, I thought I’d leave this debate and do other things till I saw your post on “even mm using kk more” and thought I’d like you to point out a few facts. I know you are an aRDent fan and I read your loRD’s blog site from time to time out of curiosity. Let me tell you one thing: among all the sites I have seen, yours is the site that distorts facts the most. The basic premise of your discussion is how everyone from SD to MM to LP copied your loRD’s tunes. Why do you do this? What purpose does it serve? I don’t have any problems if you think RD and Kishore are the best; you are entitled to your own opinions. But why say MM used Rafi more? Which song are you talking about: Ek Muthi Aasman?
The idiom that MM composed in is ghazal (gojol, as Bengalis would say) and he was the king. Forget Rafi and Lata, listen to his composition for Talat in Jahanara: Phir Wohi Sham Wohi Gam. This was in 1964 and Rafi was at his peak, but MM gave the song to Talat. When you get tired of listening to your loRD’s catchy songs, listen to this Talat gem and you will realize that RD, however talented he was, could never compose a ghazal like MM; the best he can offer is Hume tumse pyar kitna. And stop broadcasting to the world that your loRD composed Tumjo mil gaye ho; just because a few arrangers from RD’s stable played the music in that song does not mean it was composed by him. The problem with your loRD was that though he came in close proximity with Rafi at a young age (having ghost composed Sar jo zara takraya and having played the tabla in Hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare), he never appreciated the dimensions Rafi could have added to his oeuvre.
For Madan Mohan, the No. 1 male singer was Rafi. He, unlike LP, never buckled under pressure during the 70s. I’d go so far as to say that most of the gems that Rafi delivered in the post-Gambler era were composed by Madan Mohan. And guys like you keep distorting facts. I am listing just a few songs from the MM-Rafi combination below; listen to them and you’ll realize that your favourite composer-singer duo could never even come close to creating these (and I mean this kind of songs).
1. Meri awaaz suno, pyar ka raaz suno
2. Tumhari zulf ke saayen mein sham kar lunga
3. Tujhe kya sunayoon main dilruba (adapted from Talat’s Yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chandni)
4. Main ye soch kar
5. Kar chale hum fiza
6. Ek hassen sham ko dil mera kho gaya
7. Tum jo mil gaye ho
You could also try Jaidev’s Kabhi khud pe kabhi halat pe, Khayyam’s Jaane kya dhoondti rahati hai aankhe or Ravi’s Chaudvin ka chand ho. Then you will realize why even those who specialize in that genre, such as Jagjit Singh and Pankaj Udhas, let alone RD-Kishore, fall behind.
The old man respected Khayyam and Madan Mohan, and that is why you see such beauties as Hum bekhudi mein tumke pukare (Jaidev helped him on this one), Kahin bekhayal hokar and Din dhal jaye. The truth is that your loRD will never be able to measure up to his dad, and part of that reason is his disdain for ROFI. I know this is a bitter pill for you to swallow.
May 18th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Mr Bapan: U use words like mad and donkey with whom you
do not agree. Each one has his right to opinion.
And each one know how to use better dirty words for persons such
as you but due to ethics and decency - they the music lovers of
class - wont use these.
By the way which school did you go if at all and do you buy
front row tickets for watching a movie since people with such
vocabulary are found there..
binu…. mumbai….
May 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
In Kerala during my visits I found the following facts.
a. K.J. YESUDAS IS THE NO one SINGER in Malayalam.
b. Mohd Rafi - in hindi leads by over 90% for his class singing.
there are Rafi pictures in most music lovers houses.
c. KK has sung a malayalam number but he has very few
followers.
binu nair
May 18th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
KK and Rafi are two different personalities all together. They both are legends.
KK intially was not very successfull as a singer in the 50s because the norm at that time adopted by most Music Composers for singers at the time was perfect Urdu pronounciation, range of operation on high musical notes, variation in voice. This was the era when Rafi and Manna Dey where holding the center stage in singing. The result which KK entered in different areas like acting, Comedy, music composition, writing apart from singing. It brought him in comparison every where, thought he can never be considered bad or sub standard in any one them.
Plus another factor was the most singers were trained by some Pandit / Ustad. For example Mukesh got training under Pt Jaganath Prasad. This helped him in building good reputaion with music composers Anil Biswas & Salil Chaudhuri. This is were KK was a bit unfortunate.
As an actor his co stars where always best Actresses like Madhu Bala, Nutan, Vijyantimala, Meena Kumari, etc. But since there were Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand & Raj Kapoor most of his works were over shadow.
Similarly as a Comedian there were Johnny Walker, Mehmood, Om Prakash, etc who were specialists in their area. Keshto Mukherjee just did one silly act through out his career, but he is remembered for that till date.
Same as music composer his compostions were brillant certainly superior that many C grade music composers of that time. He himself was not classically trained, but he certainly had a fair good knowledge of Raags. His composition “Koi Hamdam na Raha” is based on Raag Jhinjhoti.
Because of these comparisions KK faced stiff competition everywhere, the result of which he was not able to charish mass appeal in any area as such. Most artists whether singers, MD, actors, comedians, etc they concentrated in one area knowing their limitations and putting extra efforts on there strong factors. 50s and 60s for the era of perfection & accuracy where only the best was perferred. This was not the case with KK in 50s and 60s.
In late 60s and 70s KK concertrated only on singing, so one can see the results. Since KK charied mass appeal a singer in 70s his all previous achievements as an actor, comedian, film maker, director, music composer, song writer, etc. are looked upon as great quantities of a singer by history. That is what makes him a legend.
A lot of credit goes to Dada Burman in shaping KK as per his body language knowing his limitations. Later it was carried forward by son Pancham. Dada Burman was responsibile for songs for couples involving leg pulling. In majority duets sung by KK and the female counter part, KK always steals the show. In order words Dada new the right musical notes to exploit KK of screen.
A lot as been written on Rafi so no point in going in too much detail.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Ask any common people and experts,99% will say that Kishoreda is the best.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Yes unknown,I am sure.You can check it in orkut.Kishoreda is infinity times better and more popular than any other singer,including Rafi.
May 18th, 2007 at 2:24 am
most keralites like rafi songs than kksongs.most of us donot undstant hindi.but weapreciate hindi songs .whenever one speak abot kk he tends to compare him with rafi.when one speak about rafi he speak only about his magical voice and his special style of singing.in kerala there is a saying kks sound is coarse like the sound produced when a coconut shell is rubbed on a rock.this may be becose of the presence of kjdas and his sweet sound inkerala people so feel.i think kjdas better than kk
May 18th, 2007 at 12:54 am
RDB had a hand in kk’s success, along with SDB..sdb used to give kishore a lot of his renditions during the early 50’s..butnot quite frequently during the late 50’s and ealry 60’s..after that he used kk more often!..
rafi was the prime singer and singer in demand in fact to be called the best in the buisness during the 60’s..but after aradhana it was kisorw who rose to the top..and in the 70’s..he was used more by most mds!..even lp,mm etc etc who were loyal to rafi during the 60’s..turned towars kk due to the latter’s growing popularity…lp told that n an inetrview that they were forced to use kk during the70’s more as kk was the singerin demand then..and ppl wanted his songs..Ka also used kk moreoften during the 70s..and every one knows abt the rdb-kk combo which took the music industry by storm after aradhana..!..
May 18th, 2007 at 12:41 am
Dear Messi, Salil Chowdhary made good songs I agree, but I said he was never on top like SJ, LP, KA and others…….. Rafi Saheb sang for him in Madhumati, Maya, etc….
May 18th, 2007 at 12:33 am
This is Kishore Kumar’s site, but to my surprise, 90% praise Rafi Saheb in KK site!!! Rafi Saheb was far-far ahead of all singers including Lata Mangeshkar.
May 18th, 2007 at 12:22 am
I live in Africa and people (negros) here love and admire Rafi Saheb’s songs.
May 18th, 2007 at 12:09 am
Dear Debjyoti
Kishoreda’s largest fan club in orkut has 68,000!!!!!!!!!!!! members while Rafi’s 10,000.!!!!!!!!This just shows what Kishoreda is.In fact,Kishoreda is the most popular singer,no other Indian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!singer,are u sure?!!Do u know who is KK?!! only 68,000,Plz tell me when good music stared and when finished,as we know born in 1950’s was young in 1960’s was old in 1970’s and end in 1980 would u say why?Can u give RD best film?
u r!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????
May 17th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Kishoreda is the greatest of all times.Check different people paying tribute to the genius.
http://www.yoodleeyoo.com/specials/19th_death_anniv.html
May 17th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Debjyoti:
What is this ORKUT BUSINESS ?..
Rafi saab lives in the hearts of millions of music lovers not in ORKUT.
MORE, PLS MODERATE YOUR VOCABULARY as other writers can
write better dirty words, I am sure. But they would not stoop down
as they are educated and enlightened M U S I C lovers.
binu nair
May 17th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Dear Hussein Sheikh,
You said Anil Biswas, C.Ramachandra, Salil Chowdhuri never reached the
top and came down very fast that too because they prefered otehr not
rafi ? come on, are you religiously blind ? They were legends by their
own rights. There were other great singer at that time, they were happy
with them so never tried with rafi. Don’t know about Anil Biswas and Rama
but Salil had so many excellent tunes with Rafi. Remember Madhumati ?
A lot more are there. Stop writing kiddish or biased statements.
There are only 3 MDs who got the highest award from Sangeet Natak
Academy and they are.
1. Salil Chowdhuri, 2. Naushad, 3. S.D. Burman
Mind you, Salil is there in the list and your comment is like he is not great.
Shan Nawaz,
Good to read your post. You think Sonu can sing in any pitch ? good joke.
Tell me any difficult song he sang ? yes he is technically more talented
than Udit, but he doesn’t have voice and melody.
He lacks the melody when he sings in high pitch, and this is his biggest
flaw. When he tries to sing in high pitch it seems it’s getting tough for
him and the melody is no more. Do you feel such in Udit’s voice ? no
not at all. All though Udit is not versatile or he is very monotonous but
he is anyday better than Sonu. Another major disadvantage is ask Sonu
to sing a sad song, you can feel what I am trying to say.
Udit can sing in any pitch, and with ease. I don’t see that perfection
and impact in sonu’s voice but both are talented but Sonu’s voice is
no match to Udit’s. Only thing I like about Sonu is he can sing Rafi
songs. Can copy Rafi with some percentage.
May 17th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Dear Prakash,
U are r i g h t.
Actually RAFI saab took a big holiday from the industry when
he went for HAJ. During this period someone told rafi that
singing in films is haram not religious and the innocent rafi
believed it and went off to London to live with his sons.
There rafi sons due to the pressures to sing sent RAFI saab
back.
By this time due to the vacuum created by rafi absence - Kishore
Kumar came on back and this lasted for few years. Then Rafi saab
came with a bang with Laila Majnu.
R.D. BURMAN - would not have faded if he had balanced RAFI
and Kishore like what S.D.BURMAN had done earlier to the two
great talents.
The arrival of Kishore Kumar meant more variety and we are richer
musically - due to the great competition from two very talented
s i n g e r s of our times….
Lets enjoy the numbers of singers from 40s onwards. THEIR VOICES
WERE GOLDEN AND ALL OF THEM LEFT A GREAT LEGACY FOR US..
Lets enjoy these and desist from COMPARING OUR LEGENDS…
BINU NAIR..
binus2000@hotmail.com
May 17th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
P. Haldar,
Thanks for your comments. Jaikishan was Rafi inclined but I am pretty sure Shankar loved Rafi as much. In an interview I had read from Shankar, the questioner asked why after the success Manna had with SJ was he slowly eased out of SJ’s recording room in favour of Rafi. Shankar responded by saying that it wasn’t anything to do with easing out Manna, it was just that Rafi was miles ahead of him as a singer. On the other hand, Jai also composed for Mukesh as well, SJ made use of a variety of singers but Rafi was their ace.
Coming to RDB, as you said, he most probably wanted to be different, so he didn’t use Rafi saab as much. By 1980, Rafi was indeed singing a lot and had hits everywhere, and you are right, we might never know the amount of songs RD would have composed for Rafi in the 80’s. At that time, RD started taking Rafi more for not only films in general but big-budget movies as well.
Please keep on writing, your comments are very interesting and nice
What are your other views on RD vis a vis Rafi ?. RDB’s decline started around the early 80’s, could Rafi have saved him from that had he been there ?.
Sudip,
I had read one of your comments in another forum that “Zamane Ne Mare” and “Pyar Hai Ik Nishan” would feature in the Top 5 f RD, I agree with you, these two songs are both masterpieces from the RD-Rafi combo, they produced a lot of hits together.
Another favourite of mine is “Aye Jaan-e-Wafa” from Chhalia, fantastic use of the guitar by Pancham, and Rafi’s singing is excellent.
Please keep on writing as well, your views are also nice.
May 17th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Thanks everyone, especially the Kishore fans, for letting us share our thoughts freely on this website. Messi, don’t be upset when people compare the two; that’s bound to happen when you are considering the two greatest “playback” singers of all time. Do you know of any other pair in the music industry (e.g., Lata-Asha, RD-LP, Sahir-Majrooh) who is compared this often and that with so much passion? It just adds that extra glitter to tha aura of these two legends.
Here’s a parting thought. Dear Kishore fans, please listen to the 1958 duet Rafi sang with Asha in Kala Pani: Aachha ji main haar gaya maan jao na. Nothing extraordinary about the song, but take note of Rafi’s nuances for Dev in that song. Fast forward to Teen Deviyan (1965) and listen to Kishore’s Aare yaar meri tum bhi ho gazab; you’ll see how Kishore very intelligently adapted (not copied) Rafi’s style in that song and in many other Dev songs.
Rafi was a singer’s singer, someone whom Kishore, Manna, Talat and Mukesh adored; Yesudas, S. P. Balasubramaniam, and Udit Narayan idolized; and Mahendra Kapoor, Anwar, Shabbir Kumar, Mohd Aziz and Sonu Nigam emulated. So what if kids at Orkut and other websites don’t listen to Rafi? Rest assured that all their gurus used to listen to Rafi before going to sleep, so that they could go up a notch higher in the art of playback singing.
May 17th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Excellent article but the debate is healthy restricted to few like Haldar,Sudip,Manish,Naresh,MYK,Praksh,Shaan,Messi,Narayanan.
IN MY OPINION IF U TAKE THE ENTIRE BOLLYWOOD PLAYBACK SINGING FIELD ONLY 2 GAINTS EMERGE LATA AND RAFI FOLLOWED BY KISHORE,MUKESH AND ASHA. AS RIGHTLY POINTED BY HARIHARAN THAT 5 GREATS DOMINATED HINDI FILMS AND 5 GREATS DOMINATED SOUTH FILMS TMS,YESUDAS,SPB,SUSHEELA AND JANAKI.
DEAR DEBOJYOTI,
HOW CAN U TAKE ORKUT STATISITCS WHICH IS USED BY ELITE ?. U CAN COMPARE THE FEW AGAINST 100 CRORE POPULATION.
I HAVE ALSO INTERACTED WITH MANY THOSE FROM THE OLD AND YOUNG WHO LOVES GOOD MUSIC THE ABOVE IS TRUE. FACTS WILL BE BITTER BUT THEY ARE RIGHT.
AGAIN IAM NOT DEBATING OR BELITTLING UR FAVOURITE.
Regards,
Usha
May 17th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Well done true music lovers especially the most knowledgeable Sudip,Manish,Haldar,Naresh Sharma,MYKand some others who has commented above very analytically.
The great composers Shanker Jaikishen, S.D.Burman,Naushad,O.P.Nayyar,Roshan,Ravi,Madan Mohan and Laxmikant Pyarelal who had dominated the fabulous 50s and the swinging 60s used only the great Rafi Sahab for majority of the songs. Mind u those days films had 10 songs easily and the two stalwarts Rafi sahab n Lataji dominated the proceedings. In my opinion this period was the BEST IN PRODUCING EVERGREEN MELODIES BY THE ABOVE COMPOSERS WHERE RAFI SAHAB TOTALLY DOMINATED. Yes there was Mukeshji who confined to RK films and Kalyanji Anandji music, Manna da was good in classical character and few comedian filmed songs. Kishore da playbacked for Dev Anand and himself in the few films he had sung.
Many of us are not aware that Shanker Jaikishen used Rafi Sahab for almost 364 films and LP for 373 films. Infact another surprise for me was that pre Aradhna SDB used Rafi Sahab for 90 films out of 120 films. Please elucidate these facts for me Sudip, Manish,Haldar.Myk and Naresh.
Amongst Naushad, Madan Mohan, OPN it was also Rafi all the way. Now we know Roshan and Ravi the melodious composers picked up their best bet Rafi over Mukesh n Mahendra in that order ( As BR Chopra was close to Mahendra).
Once again Rafi sahab came with a big bang in the 77-80 period thanks to Rafi Bakths like LP,Madan Mohan ( who stood by Rafi in Laila Majnu in 75).
Yes the two good friends Rafi Sahab and Kishore da dominated this period but the melody or the songs of earlier magic was lacking as the music dynamics changed. The tastes of listeners changed drastically. This is my opinion and the two legends did their best to ring the charts under LP who dominated the proceedings followed by Rajesh Roshan,RDB,Bappi Lahiri and KA in that order.
The blind fans Debojit and Bapan are ignorant of the facts and they repeat parrot like in the above blog. Also Kumar Sanu who is a clone had played Rafi Sahab song Tum Mujhe bula na paoge in the Jaimala program in radio in 1985. Abhijeet another clone always revered his favorite legends but also worships Rafi Sahab and had sung Shammi Kapoor songs in T series. Shaan loves Kishore da and Rafi Sahab equally. Simillarly budding singers like KK,Babul always learned from the two legends.
Dear Messi, Udit Narayan had paid tribute to Rafi Sahab in Screen last year the copy which I have where he mentions that he belongs to Mohd Rafi School of Music.
No wonder that todays most successful singers Udit and Sonu owe their success to the humble giant Rafi Sahab.
The outlook survey where Rafi sahab songs were judged the best had Kumar Sanu,Abhijit along with Shankar Ehsan Loy, Javed,Khayyam,Mann da,Annu Malik etc….
Do I Have to say anymore ?
Narayanan