An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
© Copyrighted to Yoodleeyoo.com All Rights Reserved.
March 10th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Sudip, Could you please post the link to “Bijli ki Rani” song as I want to understand the meaning of falstto with an example. Please let me know if initial start taken by kk in “Mere mehboob qyamat hogi” before he even sings the line mere mehboob is considered as falsetto. Just trying to understand about falsttto….
March 10th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Manish, Did you get any reply back from any kk fan on why most of the MD’s perferred Rafi over kk? (or for that matter all other playback singers)? Your list had Naushad, Ravi, Madan mohan, Sardar Malik, OP on Rafi’s side and KK fan were left with Bappi (and by the way… Bappi is related to KK) … Dear you will never get any answer on that.
Only thing you will hear will be
1> hey… Rafi songs were poor in quality (it means all those MD’s are poor in quality too compared to Bappi!)
2> or they will say.. you know what KK was busy in acting! There is no source of proof for any such statement and then … wo kya kahete hai ” oolta chor kotwaal ko dante” …
March 10th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
“There is a song in “Fanna” sung by Shaan and Kailash kher “Chaand Sifarish”. Kailash sang “Subhan Allah”, and entire song sung by Shaan, and FYI both got nominated for that song (both won award..)”
Reply: Not always true dear…. Let me think…….Kumar Sanu won filmfare award in 1993 for Yeh kali kali ankhen and a porition of the song was sung by Anu Malik… You theory do not work…check it out dear…
The voice in Namak Halal is so different that it has to be other than KK. KK just cant sing fast paced sargam.
March 10th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Here is the link again of Dev Anand’s coment on Rafi. It is very much there on eternalRafi website… Please look at point 3 on that page.
http://www.eternalrafi.com/home/index.php/Media-Talks/2007-A-Rafi-Year.html#comment2019
March 10th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Manish mere dost,
U wrote:
ashu - all i achieved with your discussions was hearing your 3 remarks that would make an objective person question your logic. it was entertaining too.
so stop this rather one sided discussion and go ahead with listening to and enjoying both singers - we can’t live without both.
My reply:
I am fond of all singers, and i know indian music can’t exist wothout Kishore, Rafi, Mukesh, Lata, Asha, Manna and many others. My views are not one side friend. I always replied to ur (rafians) fabricated view.
March 10th, 2008 at 9:03 am
My dear friend abey john,
Rafians are known for fabricating stories against Kishore, but they don’t know that whenever they come up such nonsense thing, they get badly exposed.
March 10th, 2008 at 8:27 am
ref 861
Vipul,
the link you provided does not work. interestingly, those two points were summaries and not quotes. i don’t believe those quotes. my guess is that they were fabricated hence you don’t have any primary source. it just says “source” times of india”. where is the toi article? no where. any person to authenticate it? no. just another rumor spread on the internet. no wonder the eternal rafi site got that link removed.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:48 am
vipul,
FYI: May be this information will not be available in Youtube…
If you had seen 1982 filmfare award…Only kishore got nomination for “Pag ghungharoo bandh..” (of course he won).
There is a song in “Fanna” sung by Shaan and Kailash kher “Chaand Sifarish”. Kailash sang “Subhan Allah”, and entire song sung by Shaan, and FYI both got nominated for that song (both won award..)
My guess, if somebody else would have sung that fast Sargam, he would have got nomination.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Vipul,
Good. I don’t know abt kitchen and bathroom. But i must say I would be happy if his (Rafi) photo was in the bathroom (rest room) or kitchen:)Just kidding yaar
Can you send me reliable link or source where it mentioned that “FAST” sargam was sang by not kishore?
Boss, i can’t accept anything from you, because u r comletely depend on junk Youtube.
There was another character in the movie “Pyarelal” who sang fast sargam, not Amitabh. Amitabh sang ” sa sa….ni sha sha…” and rest pyarelal.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Vipul:
Kishore had a picture of Rafi in his house.
But when Ashu visited his house, Kishore was so scared about his dislike for Rafi that he hid it under his bed
It is an Indian tradition after all, to to treat guests with what they prefer.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:22 am
sudip: i learned a lot from the points you raised and the songs you mentioned. do post once in a while at these forums.
as for now - save your precious time and don’t entertain these recently raised trivial, pointless matters. i certainly won’t - i will exit for now and check back in a month.
ashu - all i achieved with your discussions was hearing your 3 remarks that would make an objective person question your logic. it was entertaining too.
so stop this rather one sided discussion and go ahead with listening to and enjoying both singers - we can’t live without both.
btw…my kk biography just came in the mail - can’t wait for my other books to arrive
March 6th, 2008 at 3:36 am
Thanks Sudip for your reply. No one could match Rafi’s high pitch singing, and it was one of his great strengths. If you listen to Pancham’s version of “Pyar Hai Ik Nishan” in Bengali, its nice, but Rafi takes the Hindi version to greater heights.
I’d rather not comment on Ashu’s posts, as I feel they are purely subjective and not based on fact. In my opinion, whatever he has claimed is not true (both of Rafi and Kishore). I don’t see how anyone can compare Kishore or any singer to Rafi, when Rafi is miles ahead of the rest.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Ashu:
“Sudip, you agreed with Asha’s coment on “Bijli ki rani”, then why u guys are not agreed with her”
Mere dost:
-That “Bijli ki rani” is a song sung in falsetto is a FACT (because falsetto has a hard definition)
-That Rafi lost to her in “Aaja aaja” is an OPINION
As far as Asha is concerned, she lost credibility and respect for me, the day she started denying OP’s contribution. Let her recognize OP Nayyar first. Rafi comes much later…
March 6th, 2008 at 1:13 am
Ashu:
“Sudip, you agreed with Asha’s coment on “Bijli ki rani”, then why u guys are not agreed with her”
mere dost:
-That “Bijli ki rani” is a song sung in falsetto is a FACT
-That Rafi lost to her in “Aaja aaja” is an OPINION
As far as Asha is concerned, she lost credibility and respect for me, the day she started denying OP’s contribution. Let her recognize OP Nayyar first. Rafi comes much later…
March 5th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Dev Anand’s comment on Rafi and kk…
Veteran actor Dev Anand came up with two demands during this birthday of Rafi sahab.
In a press conference he said (Source Times of India)
1. Rafi sahab shud be awarded Bharat Ratna immidiately and govt shud preserve his works before it is too late.
2. When I compare songs sung for me by Kishore and Rafi sahab, I realize that Rafi sahab was far ahead.
link -
http://www.eternalrafi.com/home/index.php/Media-Talks/2007-A-Rafi-
Year.html#comment2019
I liked the word “far ahead”
If any kk fan has any objection, they can contact TOI or eternalrafi website rather than arguing with me.
I would lov to mention my fav. Dev Anaand songs … (not in any order)
Rafi -
Abhi na jao chhod kar
Din dhal jaye
Kya se kya ho gaya
Too kanha yeh bata
Cheeda mere dil ne taran tere
Khoya khoya chand
Apni to har aah ek toofan
Dil ka bhanvar kare pukar
Ankho hi ankho main ishara
Kabhi khud pe kabhi halat
Kabhi na kabhi kanhi na kanhi koi na koi to
Dhire dhire chal
Accha ji main hari
main Zindgi ka saath
Diwana masatan hua dil
Aaja panchhi akela hai
kk -
Pholon ke rang se
Dil aaj shayar
palbhar ke liye koi
Pholon ka taron ka
O nigahe mastana
March 5th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Thanks Sudip, I could easily hear the difference in the voice in NamakHalal, so just querying.
Here one KK fan initally gave the wrong information that it was sung by KK but later admitted that ..(it could be a different voice). May be that classical SARGAM was too difficult for KK, so given to someone else…(may be there was another reason… )
so it could be possible that Rafi’s photo (Though I do not care) could be in KK’s house. Did he check bedroom, kitchen ,bathroom ? It could be anywhere… just kidding yaar…
and by the way, how does it matter?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Manish mere dost,
Isi liye baar baar kahta hu…Few true Rafians are very good in “KHAYALi PULAO”
Sudip,
I hope you have heard “Yaad Na jaaye” many many time. Eveni heard it many time, and it is my personal fav. I found one thing, I would request you to listen this song again, especially word line “YAAD” and “JAAYE”.
I thik Rafi sang this word 5 to 6 time in entire song, and many times his voice was like “kharkar”, especially in these 2 words. Waiting for ur comments.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Sudip,
I am lone surviver
. Joke of the day.
Here is reply in my honor
hum se na jeeta koi, hum sa na hoga koi
rang zamane aaye hai, Kishore Deewane aaye hai..
I already replied to ur blog, but i could not see here. I think it is blocked by Admin:
My comment in bold:
1. You have not commented on Kishore’s effects on Bengali songs (the links I sent)
I never visit to Youtube, because i have most of the collection of Kishore. I am in process of collecting songs sung by Kishore in his career. But i will visit to this link whenever i get some time.
2. Why you think Aaj Mausam Bada was false? (which line, which swar)
First line itself…
3. Swarlipi of Chingari (you already missed the deadline) to prove you know classical music
I will answer in term of asking you question. Will you accept Kishore is greatest if i answer ur qiestion
4. Rafi’s skillful toning down of “Aa ja” in Aa mere humjoli aa as a common ploy to misguide seekers in “hide and seek”
This is really funny.Rafi sang ” Aaajaaaaaa” many time in the song, and one time his voice had feminine effect.
Here is answer to ur funny logic. Let’s assume, you and I are playing “Hide and see”. It means we know each other. Why should I misguide by changing my voice? You can misguide player by shouting(singing) from different side, not by changing voice
5. Comment on the article http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/true-voice-mohd-rafi.html
I stopped visiting this site last year, because i found many nonsense comments.
Sudip, you agreed with Asha’s coment on “Bijli ki rani”, then why u guys are not agreed with her, when she said Rafi lost to her and Nasir paid 100rs. to RDB for the bet which he lost to RDB (With reference to “aa ja aa ja main hu pyaar tera from Teesari Manzil).
Vipul, Even i felt that there was voice change aftre Sargam. I have not heard or seen any comments from Bappi, Prakash Mehra or Kishore himself abt this. Let’s assume for 1 min, somebody else sang that line, not Kishore. What do you want to convey from this?
If you are thinking singing saragam with speed of 150km/hr is classical, then i am sorry. Do you rememebr song from Junglee?
“Yahoooooo…Chahe koi mujhe junglee kahe”. “Yahooooooo” heart of this song was sung by PRAYAAG RAJ, not Rafi….
March 5th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Sudip,
I would like to clear one point. I always feel that “falsetto” is an art. There is nothing wrong with it.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Kishore Kumar’s voice only suited to Super Star Rajesh Khanna
March 5th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Sudip,
I have not seen Bengali link:
First of all, i hardly visit to youtube, because i have most of the collection of Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh with me.
Six year ago, i decided to collect all songs of kishore…I am still in the process of doing so.
My reply enclosed as BOLD:
You have not commented on Kishore’s effects on Bengali songs (the links I sent)
I never visited that link, but i will visit and send u reply whenever i get time..
2. Why you think Aaj Mausam Bada was false? (which line, which swar)
I feel, first line itself was false singing.
3. Swarlipi of Chingari (you already missed the deadline) to prove you know classical music
I think i missed ur last blog where u asked me to answer this. Sorry for it..
Before answering i would like to question.
…Will you accept Kishore is greatest if i answer it? I think we derail from main topic.
4. Rafi’s skillful toning down of “Aa ja” in Aa mere humjoli aa as a common ploy to misguide seekers in “hide and seek”
It is not at all true..mere dost..Rafi sang “Aaajjaaaaaaaa” many times in the songs, but his voice sound faminine only at one place in the song.
Come to logic, Lets say, i and u are playing “Hide and seek”. We both know who are playing this game, then what is point in misguiding other in form of changing voice:)
You can misguide by shouting other end, or ask somebody else to shout on behalf of you from other corner
5. Comment on the article http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/true-voice-mohd-rafi.html
My dear friend, I don’t visit this site..I stopped visiting this site last year due to all bias comments. Instead of enjoying Rafi and his songs, people start comparing him with other outstanding siinger.
Hi Vipul,
Even i feel, there is a different vocal after Sargam in “Namak Halal”.
I never heard Bappi Lahiri, prakash Mehra or even Kishore saying this anywhere, or never read from reliable sources.
But let’s assume…that somebody sang that sargam not Kishore..
My question:
1. Is it classical based SARGAM?
Classical song means singing some sargam with speed of 150km/hr?
If is it true, then pls. listen following songs:
1. Paayal wali dekhana
2. Jaadu daal gaye re
3. Priye prran swari…
Here is example where somebody else sang along with Rafi…
Hope u remember..Junglee song
….Chahe koi mujhe junglee Kahe
—–” Yahooooooooo ” was sang by PRAYAG RAAJ, not Rafi
March 5th, 2008 at 2:09 am
Ashu: not a big deal but just for fun I’ll address your remark about Rafi’s photograph in Kishore’s house. Who is to say that he did have it and it got removed later on? Especially after Rafi’s death - remember that whereas Lata & company quickly forgot about Rafi, Kishore gave tributes to his live concerts as early as 1980-1981 and as late as just a few months before his death. That is certainly possible. Remember that Kishore’s place isn’t kept nearly the way it was - I’m sure people have meddled with it and it is falling apart.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:33 am
I just saw this post by myk:
“Btw, Sudip, do you still hold the view that “Pyar hai ik nishan qadmon ka” (Mukti), and “Zamane ne mare jawan kaise kaise” (Baharon Ke Sapne) would make it into RD’s Top 5 ?.”
-Definitely “Zamane ne marey”..In “Pyar hai ik nishan qadmon ka” I think Rafi went slightly higher in scale for my comfort, though I think he managed it very well (As always). Bhupinder sang the a similar Bhairavi tune in a Bengali movie under Bappi Lahiri’s baton and I prefer the lower scale chosen by Bhupinder. My only problem with Rafi was that MDs used to make him sing in higher scales which used to sound good when you see it on screen because you have the context, but off screen it may sound bit high.
I do not want to compare songs individually. But I prefer “Zamane ne marey” to “Zindagi ke safar mein guzar jatey hain” anyday as a sad song. I always maintained that Kishore’s sad songs do not suit my taste. Apart from the flamboyance there is a certain “dadagiri” (this term was used by Sudesh Bhosle for one of the KFK contestants because he overdid it) in Kishore’s voice that takes the helplessness and apathy out of sad songs. But that is entirely a personal taste.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:22 am
Vipul,
That part was sung by Dilshad Khan (Parveen Sultana’s husband)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
here are some gorgeous numbers by kishore from his golden phase::
1.ye kya hua
2.kuch to log kahnge
3.chanda o chanda
4.raat kali ek khwab mein aayi
5.o mere dil ke chain
all these numbers were greatly sung by kk, he is much much better than any of the playback singer from now a days, he was the great artist…
but here is a song from my most fav from his golden phase which i think can eaisly equate itself wd d combined effect of abov mentioned five solos
din dhal jaaye