An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 6:40 am
Correction - ” the same would NOT hold with rafi and kishore” i can’t believe i didn’t write the NOT. no jokes please! they’re both IRREPLACEABLE and have made hfm so great!
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:38 am
rafi’s voice: “as close to heavenly a human voice can be”
kishore’s voice: “the coolest voice ever” ; my dissatisfaction with this slogan is it doesn’t incorporate kishore’s sad or thoughtful songs which i love very much so i’ll work on that but so far you get a picture.
take note that for light songs you don’t need a heavenly voice and the cool voice can score over it. in the “cool” genre, the heavenly voice is no less but the cool voice is best suited. in the overall spectrum the heavenly voice wins. but to say something wins or is better sort of implies that one can replace the other. if i say a car is better than a horse and buggy - the car can indeed replace the horse and buggy. the same would hold with both rafi and kishore and one must always keep that in mind. a heavenly voice by itself is not enough.
there! the entire debate in two small paragaphs! that should encapsulate you 700+ posts that i have not read.
February 21st, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Ashu, I do not think Sudip was telling that since you could be Bengali so you like KK. He posted the link in Bengali (Which I do not understand) so he was just clarifying that you could get it translated if you want to read.
BTW, we all Rafi supporters (Vikram, Dhani Ram, myself, Sudip, Prabal Das) are not Muslims, but we just luv music so religion does not matter.
Religion does not matter to anyway as I am an atheist.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Manna could have said 1000 different things on Doordarshan (and most of them are provoked by questions). In Anandabazar, with a free hand he mentioned “RAFI WAS THE BEST MALE VOICE EVER”. Pls show me where exactly did he mention the same phrase with other singers?
“Most versatile”, “Greatest maverick”, “one of the greats”, “most popular singer” are NOT the same as “BEST MALE VOICE EVER”. Lets get this clear and not try to misrepresent Manna.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
“I saw Manna’s interview on Doordarshan, and again he mentioned same thing abt Rafi and Kishore…”
-So you think Manna was lying in Anandabazar when he categorically said Rafi was the “best male voice ever”? Or was he drunk? Why do you keep wavering?
-When we bring Rafi’s ghazals you bring in Mehdi Hasan
-When I quote Anandabazar, you slip to Doordarshan
Pls answer: WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON MANNA’S WRITING IN ANANDABAZAR? You do not have to accept Rafi’s superiority, but at least lets get an agreement on Manna Dey’s opinion.
When did I say only Bengalis like Kishore? Can’t u even understand that I was checking if you could read the Anandabazar Patrika? That has nothing to do with Kishore.
February 21st, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Ashu said ” At least you are aware of Rafi;s song in quantities. I personally think he would have sung close to 7k songs (including all languages) which is higher in quantity, and in quality he is a way behind Kishore. ”
Ashu saheb, could you justify your statement about quality? Please come up with concrete proof else it will beome a laughing stock for others. I am sure you have more information and knowledge than me and many others .. so you will come up with a proper justification.
Please also reply to al 6 points I mentioned, so that we have a clear debate.
Thanks dear…
February 21st, 2008 at 3:36 pm
sudip,
let me clear ur doubt. I am not Bengali.
Why u people thikn only Bengalis like Kishore?
See. K for Kishore….Only 1 Bengali…
Sachin Tendulkar, Dhouni, Shoaib are not Bengali
We can also say samething for Rafi and Muslims, but i am not so narrow minded….
February 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Sudip,
Good. I like it. At least you are aware of Rafi;s song in quantities. I personally think he would have sung close to 7k songs (including all languages) which is higher in quantity, and in quality he is a way behind Kishore.
I saw Manna’s interview on Doordarshan, and again he mentioned same thing abt Rafi and Kishore…
February 20th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Sudip, thanks for clarification…. But still Rafi was higher in numbers than KK
February 20th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
ASHU:
You highlighted “one of the” when it came to Manna Dey talking about Rafi. But dodged the “one of the” when it came to Kishore.
I am not sure if you are a Bengali or can read Bengali. The last time Manna talked publicly about the “greatest male singer ever” (NOT “one of the greatest singers”) was in the obituary for Naushad in the renowned Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika. A translated version of that obituary is here (pls read the conclusion):
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=813233
If you suspect this is a handiwork of Rafians, here is the original untranslated version:
http://www.anandabazar.com/archive/1060513/13nibon.htm
In case you cannot read Bengali, pls get someone who can read Bengali to read it for you. I am not saying Rafi is best because Manna says so, but setting facts straight on Manna Dey’s opinions.
VIPUL:
Let me correct you that Rafi has NOT sung 26000 songs. If Rafi has indeed sung 26000 songs it shows him in bad light because he would have a poorer song:hit ratio than KK.
Rafi has sung around 5000 Hindi film songs (a little more than KK). When Lata claimed to record the highest number of songs, Rafi contested saying that he then has sung 26000 times. It means he has been recorded 26000 times (each song can have multiple takes, each song can be used in several parts, etc). Not 26000 songs.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Vipul, Mere dost…
Where r u
? No messages…What happened 
February 20th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Rafi was anytime far better than KK. Why? Here is the analysis…
)
1> Rafi sang about 26000+ songs compared to KK’s 5000+ songs in entire career. (please correct me if I am wrong)/ It is because Rafi was more preferred by MD’s. If Rafi would have been low in quality as mentioned by Ashu, you think Indian MD’s do not have music sense as they were inclined towards Rafi more than anyone else? In terms of sheer quantity Rafi is winner. (BTW, Ashu what happened to your own music sense when you made that statment about quality
2> Rafi sang for more MD’s than kk. Even for RD (kk’s favourite) Rafi sang 100+ songs (please correct me if I am wrong). The same was not true for kk. KK hardly sang or sang very few songs for Naushad, OP, Madan Mohan or SJ. (Rafi’s favourite) Rafi is winner again..
3> Rafi sang many songs in many different languages (apart from Hindi and Punjabi, his mother tongue). KK sang most of his songs in Hindi and Bangla. Rafi wins here too.
4> KK’s comfort zone in singing was limited to Romantic songs, sad songs, fact paced and fun songs. He hardly tried outside his comfort zone. Rafi was right there in all those categories and he can sing also Ghazals, Patriotic songs, Classical, Bhajans, Quwallis folk songs etc.(he sang many in each category). In short, His comfort zone was very big, so big that he can almost sing any kind of song. Rafi is a clear winner here too.
5> Rafi gave playback for KK too (as many as 11 times). Why kk need Rafi for vocal for his own song on screen?
6> Finally Rafi and Lata were declared best male and female playback singer of last century. Where was kk?
Hope I am clear now.
February 20th, 2008 at 1:26 am
you are a great singer and my favorite
February 20th, 2008 at 1:26 am
You highlighted “one of the” when it came to Manna Dey talking about Rafi. But dodged the “one of the” when it came to Kishore.
I am not sure if you are a Bengali or can read Bengali. The last time Manna talked publicly about the “greatest male singer ever” (NOT “one of the greatest singers”) was in the obituary for Naushad in the renowned Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika. A translated version of that obituary is here (pls read the conclusion):
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=813233
If you suspect this is a handiwork of Rafians, here is the original untranslated version:
http://www.anandabazar.com/archive/1060513/13nibon.htm
In case you cannot read Bengali, pls get someone who can read Bengali to read it for you.
February 16th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Vipul…
I am still firm with my words about ur musical sense
Manna Dey talks abt Rafi and Kishore from this link:
==============================================
“Rafi was a wonderful person, a trendsetter in singing, he evolved a style of his own which I used to follow too. Talat Mehmood was also unique. Kishore Kumar was one of the most versatile singers of our industry; he ruled the popularity charts like nobody else.” Though not a fan of Western music, he likes listening to old favourites like Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby, both of whom he adored during his college days.
**Available at http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/06/02/stories/2003060201370100.htm
===============================================
And one more link on Manna Dey said abt RDB and SDB, though personally i am not completely agree…….
==============================================
Comparing the two Burmans he said, “People often say Sachin Dev Burman was a great composer. Yes, he was but I feel Pancham was one step ahead of his father.”
** AVailable at:
http://www.cinemasangeet.com/cinema/articles/?a=382
==============================================
Hope u r clear now…:)
February 16th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Vipul,
Mere dost, There are many interview by Manna Dey. I already posted many on same site and Rafi site. And ha Manna never said that Rafi is only best, Pls. read carefully. He said “RAFI was one of the best of all time”
Pls. listen a song…”JAADU DAAL GAYE Re…mo pe baanke Bihari”. Check the Kishore’s range. I personally believe only Manna Dey aftre Kishore could manage to sing this song.
I respect ur view..if u think Rafi is best..I don’t have issue. BUt who proved it he is only best. Don’t conclude something which is debatable since last 37 yrs.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
This is taken from EternalRafi website.. What Manna Dey thinks about Rafi…
“Rafi was the complete singer who could sing everything. Among the frontline singers, only he and I would be called to sing every kind of song. And I did not grudge that he always remained ahead of me because he was a far better singer than I was. I rate Mohammad Rafi as one of the very best of all time. He was undoubtedly one of the very best. He was self-taught and he made a style of his own, and I would rate him the icon in playback singing.”
I think Manna babu has worst music sense like me
February 14th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
one more thing.. as per me Rafi is far more better than KK as Rafi is more versatile. We all have proved that. Again, I think Rafi is better than KK bcos I have got worst music sense!
February 14th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Thanks Ashu.. I agree that my music sense is worst. Thanks for telling me that. But postive aspect is atleast I know that my music sense is worst.
However in some cases, I have seen many people with worst music sense but that is not the problem. The problem is that they do not even know about it.
Thanks dear and take care…
February 14th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
This blog is only for VIPUL..
——————————–
Vipul,
I am sorry to say that u got worst music sense. First of all, Abhijeet voice is not like Kishore, Abhijeet tries to imitate him.
I feel Sonu is much versatile than Rafi, because he can sing classical as well as rap, westen
How is it?
February 14th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
My dear friend Vikram,
This is what the problem with you guys…Even though u people know the truth, but fight for false thing.
But i m gald that u like it.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Vipul wrote: “In KK clone, I prefer Abhijeet. Sometimes I feel Abhijeet is even better than KK (sounds funny rite! . But his voice is softer than KK according to me)”
-That’s because he (Abhijeet) sings in falsetto. Any singer, including me
sounds sweet on a falsetto note. True sweetness should come out regardless of the note and the song. Rafi was sweet even in “Main jat Yamla” or “Nagin sa roop hai tera”..One may not like the song but one cannot deny Rafi’s sweetness in these antras.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Thanks Vikram…. the site you mentioned is awesome… Thanks…
February 13th, 2008 at 12:20 am
Sudip, Kumar Sanu has very limited range. He can not sing on high notes. To bring softness to his voice he goes nasal. He is same as Mukesh in terms of range. As of now he has no work as every1 realised his weaknesses and today’s best MD, A R Rehman has not used him even once!
I think in current singers, I have high regards for Udit (for his freshness), Alka Yagnik, Kavita K, Sukhwinder Singh (for his amazing range), Hariharan and Shreya Ghosal. Sonu is good too as he is more versatile like his mentor (Rafi) but somehow I feel there is something missing in his voice. Technically he is sound and can sing difficult songs too.
In KK clone, I prefer Abhijeet. oSmetimes I feel Abhijeet is even better than KK (sounds funny rite! . But his voice is softer than KK according to me)
February 12th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Ashu ji,
I take back whatever I said about the song ‘Meri Pyari Bindu’. It’s not at all a bad song. After hearing it a couple of times, I started kind of liking it.