An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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February 12th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Vipul,
If you have not yet visited the web page www.eternalrafi.com, please do so. You will find hundreds of Rafi songs downloads for free. I am sure you will find most of what you are looking for. What a site! I was surprised and amazed to see their collectiion. Great effort indeed!
Dhani Ram Ji,
I agree with everything that you said in your post. Recently I watched the old hindi film ‘Devdas’. There was a solo by Talat ( MITWA ). What a composition! Another solo from the same film MANZIL KI CHAH MEIN by Rafi is another example of SDB’s hold on his compositions.
February 12th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
ashuji,,
60s and 70s wre indeed gr8.. but 50s were unmatchable in terms of quality.. naushad sahab was stunnig from baiju baawra to mugleaazam, how can we forget naushad sahab’s gr8 contribution to 50s, he was first to introduce “gayaki ang” into filmi music, and first who really exploited strenths of kohinoor rafi sahab…..
now regarding sachin da, his variety in 50s was juss unbelievable, juss have a look into his 50s work baazi to jaal to pyaasa to kala pani to kala baazar(1960) to chalti ka naam gaadi to suajata,, and if u noticed dat how well dada exploited d strenths of kishore da in chalti ka naam gaadi, paying guest, munimji,, you have earlier mentioned some of kk duets, but tell me do u have ever listened any better kk duet than “aakhon mein kya ji ruphela baadal” under dada’s baton in 50s, i cosider this duet as best kk duet, but no doubt dat dada & sj contributed gr8ly in 60s & 70s too…
50s were just amazing, every composer, singer & lyricist contributed his best into 50s, 60s wre gr8 too, madan ji was stunnig wd his gr8 gazals, i consider 70s comparatively less quality decade, not bcoz of western music bcoz i like western artists too like norah jones, pink floyd,metallica,,.. but i think film making was degraded in 70s along wd soulful shayari,, dat affected music..but rdb was really stunning in 70s
i consider 50s as best also coz of magical work by naushad sahab, man tarpat , o dunia ke rakhwale, hum hue jinke liye barbaad, naseeb tere dar pe, meri kahani bhoolne wale all these rafi-naushad songs were just superb, wd excellent shayari.. also we cant deny d fact that shayari was at its best in 50s, many maestros consider sahir as best shayar, and according to me his best work also came in 50s wd pyaasa… jinhe naaz hai hind par, ye mehlo ye takhto, jane wo kaise log the… all these were
excellent songs wd high lyrical values, remember dat kk’s fav song “dukhi mann mere” was also from 50s under dada’s baton and sahir was too gr8 here wd his pen ….
dhani ram ji,,
regarding your comment—
“What actually all of us including you,Vikram,XXX,Maniksh and I are combatting is a certain kind of philistine taste in music”
im totally agree wd u, and if someone really wanna have a divine taste of hfm dan go for 50s music..
February 12th, 2008 at 4:39 am
Adding to Dhani Ram:
I think it also has to do with the personality of the listener. With 80% certainty I can observe a person for 10 minutes and conclude if he/she prefers Rafi or Kishore or for that matter, Lata or Asha. I have seen most males who are extrovert, outbound mostly like Kishore. The soft, inbound personalities prefer Rafi. This is where Ashu feels Kishore touches his heart and Dhani Ram or me feel Rafi touches our heart. When we listen to a song we put our personality in context of that situation. With Rafi, I always feel it is my mind singing.
Don’t laugh-but Kumar Sanu realized this… he imitated the bass of Kishore, the nasal quality of Mukesh and the softness of Rafi. So he would try to punch everything into a song.. The cocktail was horrible, to say the least.
February 12th, 2008 at 2:25 am
Dhani Raam, Thanks a lot for your wonderful post. I agree with all your Talat songs. they were truly gem. One more from Daag (Dilipkumar) version was …Koi nahi mera is duniya main.. Ashiyan barbaad hai.. A nice one..
I was listening to Rafi yesterday “Jine naaz hai Hind per wo kanha hai”…
A perfect combo of Sahir, SD and Rafi.
and when I heard “Tu kanha yeh bata” .. I have no doubt his superb voice quality and control.. He just can’t go wrong!
You talked about Mukesh. I used to lov his voice (and I still do) when I was in my teens (from 17 to 21) . The period when most of us fall in love for the first time
.
.His songs were really soulful. I must say that I developed my taste for Rafi after 21 and now I am totally Rafian as I know he is a true master and could sing anything.
About Mukesh, I think since most of the great songs you might already know.. But I will throw some very rear good songs…
1> Bahe na kabhi nain se neer (Film - Dr Vidya and song picturised on Dev Anand)
2> Dil ki Pareshaniyan .. Ishq ki veeraniyan (Movie Humlog)
3> Aae paysse di bezuban…
4> Dil tujhe diya tha rakhne ko tune dil ko jalake rakh diya (Malhar)
5> Tara tute Duiniya dekhe (Malhar)
6> Tule na dil tute na (Andaz - starring RK and Dilipkumar)
These are pretty old songs (late 40s and early 50s) but really great one by Mukesh.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
My dear friend Sudip,
I am agreed to your last blog. Every singer add “Little extra” (borrowed this from one of the site member) to their version as per their comfort.
Mr. xxx,
I know 50s music…what abt 60s and early 70s of SDb and SJ composition?
February 10th, 2008 at 4:09 am
xxx, How can I miss “Jaye toJaye kanha” … A very good one…. Thx
February 10th, 2008 at 1:11 am
Vipul and Sudip
I think we are on the same wavelength and have similar tastes in music.There may be preference for this song rather than that but essentially we like soft,sweet and melodious musicn not noisy one.
What actually all of us including you,Vikram,XXX,Maniksh and I are combatting is a certain kind of philistine taste in music.I find it bizarre that someone should say that music of 50’s was not great.I find a song like Chal shuroo ho ja to be horrendous.It is what is called cacophany.Someone who likes such songs may still like some of Rafi’s songs but will find Talat to be simply intolerable.He will never be able to appreciate Sahgal’s Babul mora nahar chhooto jaaye.I have nothing against Kishore.He was there tio make a success of his career and for a time he was eminently successful.But his style of singing by and large is such that I don’t find it enjoyble at all.Much of what he has sung is just trash and an assault on refined sensibilities.Speaking for myself,I have a huge collection of music which includes Classical,ghazals,folk songs(Reshma etc),a large number of cassettes by all the leading singers of Hindi film industry upto the end of 70’s but I don,t have a single song of Kishore by choice.Somehow I don’t like him.I may also say that with the rise of Kishore,genuine lovers of music stopped listening to film music and turned to ghazals.That was the reason for the popularity of ghazals in that period.Mehndi Hassan and Ghulam Ali came into limelight because music lovers began to find film music insipid.
Speaking of Talat,Vipul, I entirely agree with you about the silken quality of his voice and his slow and melodious style of singing.It is unfortunate that the style of singing that became a rage when Kishore came to occupy the centre-stage killed the spirit of great music and Talat was not in demand.He lived much longer than his last song:Yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chandni but was never asked to sing for any film thereafter.That is indeed a pity.His son in a recent interview said that Talat was disgusted with the kind of music being churned out by film makers.
Great music is one that doesn’t touch just the surface of your mind but enters the very depths of your soul.Talat’s songs do that.Mukesh is also wonderful.Today only heard Mukesh’s:Jhoomti chali hawa yaad aa gaya koi.What a great song!But can those for whom the height of music lies in that churlish song Chal shuroo ho ja like this golden song by Mukesh?
The question then is not about which singer one prefers but about how we define music.Indian musicologists regard music as a form of worship of God.Great and true music restores you to your inner self.It gives you the same kind of experience as a sage gets in contemplation.While listening to it,your eyes close,you shut the rest of the world out and are completely absorbed.Now I can cite numerous songs of Rafi,Talat,Mukesh and Hemant that give this kind of experienceI am afraid I can’t say the same about Kishore.
Vipul,you have provided a fair list of Talat’s golden songs.May I add a few more from memory:
1.Sab kuchh luta ke hosh mein aaye to kya kiya.
2.Beraham aasmaan meri manzil bataa hai kahaan.
3.Baichain jigar betaab nazar yeh dil hai kisi ka deewana haye deewaana
4.Jaayen to jaayen kahaan ( XXX has already alluded to it.Lata is no match for Talat in this song),
5.Humse aaya na gayaa tum se bhulalya na gayaa( this song was filmed on either Ashok Kumar or his brother.Isn’t it ironical that Ashok Kumar didn’t use Kishore’s voice? Any explanation?)
6.Aasman wale teri dunia se dil ghabhra gaya
Now the question:who is better? Talat,Mukesh or Rafi? When one listens to yeh hawa etc one thinks it is Talat;when one listens to aawaz na do or mujhe tum se kucchh na chahiye etc one thinks it is Mukesh and when one listens to tujhe kya sunaaun etc one thinks it is Rafi.I can cite a long list of songs by Mukesh sung soulfully.Kishore perhaps had a voice but soul is missing from most of his songs.
All said and done,I regard Rafi to be ahead of both Mukesh and Talat.The latter two had their limitations also.As I said in an ealier post,they sing very well in a groove.When they venture out of that,weaknesses in their voices begin to jar.Talat was even more restricted.Mukesh could sing a light song like: Naina hain jaadu bhare o gori tere naina hain jaadu bhare or dum dum diga diga etc which Talat couldn’t.Similarly,in songs like Ho ke majboor mujhe usne bulayya hoga Rafi outclasses Talat,Bhupendra and Baatish by far.Similarly, I will give equal marks to Mukesh and Rafi for Ramayya vastaa vaiyya,Rafi is far better in Dil ne phir yaad kiya barq si lehrai hai and in Jo bore kare yaar ko us yaar se tauba.Nevertheless in one of the best songs ever sung Saaranga teri yaad mein nain hue bechain Rafi couldn’t stand upto Mukesh.
Speaking of Asha’s duets I can think of three with Mukesh wihich again appear to me much better than the stuff she sang with Kishore:
1. Phir na kije meri gustaakh nigaahi ka gila
2. Voh subha kabhi to aayegi
3.Saath ho tum aur raat jawan neend kise ab chain kahaan
Vipul,Maine shayad is one of Rafi’s best songsI can’t provide you any internet link but I can provide you the name of the film after checking.From memory I can say that it is perhaps from Barsaat ki raat.I have this song on a cassette and shall confirm the name of the film.The great quality of this song is that it is sung without any or little orchestration.I can think of one song by Mukesh where little orchesta is used Kuchh sheyar sunaata hun main.
One more quality of Rafi’s singing is that he seems to be communicating each word to the listener.That is,as if he were talking to you in music.The way he articulates the words draws the attention of the listener.For example,his Ae phoolon ki raani.
Probhal Das,just one word for you.Songs cited by me are purana,maybe prehistoric but certainly not useless just as Rabindernath Tagore is purana.Do you still read Tagore and admire him or read something rubbish comparable to Chal Shuroo ho jaa?
February 9th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Vipul:
The other day I was listening to the Talat version of Chal ud ja re panchi. I believe it was HMV who had Talat record this song. I used to think no one could sing this song other than Rafi (incidentally it was Rafi’s personal favorite).
But after listening to the Talat version, I changed my opinion. I think Talat added his own silken touch to the song.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
mr.vipul,,
u missed d real one wen talat teamed up wd dada in taxi driver,, hope u got it,, lata sung female version of dat song..
ashuji,,
plz listen to sdb & sj in 50s,, m sure u will find 50s as most prolific & melodious…
February 9th, 2008 at 10:59 am
My dear friend,
I have not heard anyone saying 50s music is great. I believe 60s and 70s music were great as well.
Even i feel music from 89 to 95 was also good.
February 9th, 2008 at 10:55 am
My dear friend Vipul,
I am sure Rafi could have not justice to all those songs you have mentioned under Bappi’s composition:
The best Asha duets
1. E duniya wale puchhenge Mulawat hui ky abaat hui
2. Saara pyar tumhara maine baandh liya
3. Hawa ke saath saath
4. Dillagi ne di hawa thoda se dhua utha..(Most romatic song)
and so many…
February 9th, 2008 at 5:45 am
My favourite Rafi-Asha duets are:
1. Phir milogi kabhi is baat ka waada karlo
2. Sawan aye ya na aye
I do not consider the following duets:
1. Deewana hua badal
2. Abhi na jao chodkar
They are Rafi solos to me…Even Ila Arun in place of Asha would not have made a difference.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:30 am
Prabal Das, Wow! what a song you have mentioned…
Guru guru ho jao shuru…. very nice! May be one day I will develop my taste for more of such songs…
Dhani Raam mentioned “Aachha to hum chalte hai”. Another gem… I cant even think of any better song than that one.
I have few more… “Gori tere aang aang main lege hua …. dhintara dhintara teri aadaon ne mara”
We blame few MD’s and writers for double meaning songs we got in 90’s. Songs like “Choli ke pechhe” or “sarkiyelo khatiya” etc. But actually trend was started in 80’s.
In 80’s, Hindi music was raped by few MD’s and writers. Singers though not directly involved supported that rape!
February 9th, 2008 at 2:23 am
Dhani Raam,
Could you tell me or post a link to this song u mentioned
“Maine shayad tumhe pehle bhi kabhi dekha hai”
I have not heard it yet.
BTW, have you heard Rafis’ “Is duniya main aae dilwalo dil ka lagana khel nahi”. A really rare and nice song in terms of lyrics.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:19 am
Dhani Ram,
Tujhe kya sunao main dilruba sung by Rafi was a classic. However there was a similar song (same tune) by Talat and there was a debate on who copied whom.
The song was “Yeh Hawa yeh raat yeh Chandni teri Ek adda pe nissar hai”
Talat was superb in that song. His vibrating silky voice was really touching.
I would like to mention here Talat as one my favorite singers. I understand that he had limitations but I liked his voice.
Here are some songs by Talat,
1> Yeh Hawa yejh raat yej chandni
2> Tasveer banata hun
3> Chal diya karvan (Song picturised on Shammi) . My personal favourite
4> Jalete hai jiske liye
5> Sham -e gum ki kasam
6> Sine main sulgate hai aarmaan
7> Mera karar le ja mujhe bekarar
8> Aandhe jahan ke
9> Milte hi ankhe dil hua diwana (duet with Shamshad)
10> Aanso samaj ke kyon mujhe
11> Mahubat hi na jo samje wo zalim pyar
12> Meri Yaad main tumna
13> Zindgi dene wale sun
14> Pya per bus to nahi hai…
15> Phir wohi sham wohi gum…
OMG.. I can go on and on with Talat songs…
After Rafi, If I have to choose some1 then I think I will have to choose more than one singer.
Talat for his silky voice. Manna for his classical touch, Mukesh for his sad songs.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:26 am
Dhani Ram, All you are mentioning is useless, purana, pre-historic songs. No one cares about these sub-standard songs. Look at Vipul’s list. It is so modern. Absolutely great!
I watched one of Bappi Lahiri’s programs where he was respectfully recalling Kishore Kumar’s last song. “Guru guru ho jao shuru, pyar mein dub jao guru”
What a SENTIMENTAL song!! Utmost quality!!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
VIPUL
I love your inimitable tongue in the cheek style.Indeed I can’t think of anything comparable to the duets you have mentioned.They have to be acknowledged as the finest works of art simply because K/A lent their voices to them.And we have to admit that whatever was favoured by the Midas touch of K/A turned into gold irrespective of the fact whether it was musical or not.
Meanwhile,I must admit my inferior tastes in music.I heard today Rafi’s Tujhe kya sunaun main dil rubha tere samne mera haal hai.I can’t understand why Rafi was given such a song to sing when the sterling voice of K was available to carry it to unimaginable heights.I don’t even understand why music directors of such amazing depth and film makers of great sagacity persisted with Rafi from 50’s to 80’s giving him by far the largest number of songs to sing.There was quite clearly a grand conspiracy to assault and destroy the musical sensibilties of the gullible Indian audiences.
Meanwhile,Vipul,can you think of a worse song than the one mentioned above?I have heard this song a few thousand times and am still mesmerised by it but it only shows the debasement of my tastes.Now can you find a singing voice so bad that in articulating a single note there are so many variatiions in volume?Rafi’s multi-tonality disables him to be even a street singer.Rafi’s duets sung with Lata Mangeshkar are mistakenly regarded as the best duets ever sung.To cite just one that appeals to me immensely:Door basaa lein dil ki jannat jis ko zmaana loote na piar ka bandan toote na.What odd tastes have I? One Rafi Suraiya duet transports me:Bekraar hai koi aa mere dildaar aa.There is Tere bina soone nain hamare and hiundreds of others.But what are such duets compared to this divine one:Accha to hum chalte hain?I am moved even by such unheard of songs as Dil ka bhanwar karei pukar piar ka raz soono re.How horrible!
An unpardonably serious defect in Rafi’s voice was that he could sing even without orchestration or minimum orchestration.Songs like Maine shayad tumhe pehle bhi kabhi dekha hai are withoiut the accpaniment of much orchestration.Don’t you believe that good quality music is one that drowns or smothers the voice of the singer?
Meanwhile,I am reminded of another duet by Rafi/Asha:Jab se tumhein dekha hai aankhon mein tumhi tum ho.Let me know if you have ever heard a more horrendous jugalbandi than this?
February 6th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Few more songs where Rafi was better than Asha.
1> Deewana hua badal
2> Bade hai Dil ke kale
3> Yaar chulbula hai….
Asha sounded loud and nasal on high notes… Rafi was at ease and sounded more sweeter….
February 5th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Dear friend Manish,
I think you can do better as DAARUWAALA….Just predict things as per situation.
My dear friend, I m not frustrated…I can’t be…
You are moving away from topic.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
A couple of incomparably beautiful duets sung by Asha with Rafi:
Ik pardesi mera dil le gaya jate jate meetha meetha gam de gaya
(a 50’s song still very popular.It is regularly sung by Gurdas Mann at his concerts).
Dekh hamein awaz na dena O bedard zmaane
Raat bhar ka hai mehmaan andhera kis ke roke ruka hai savera
Ik paisa de de O babu O jaane wale babu ik paisa de de (perhaps the saddest duet ever sung)
Listen to all these songs and you will appreciate the magic of Rafi’s voice.Asha is not able to match Rafi at all.Even at slightly higher notes her voice begins to squeeze,struggle and muffle.While Rafi goes through his paces with effortless ease,Asha forces her voice out.The effort and strain are clearly visible.
And here is a gem of a duet sung by Asha with Rafi:
Kaise samjhaun bari na samajh ho
It is one of the most beautiful duets ever sung but Rafi carries it singlehandedly.Asha doesn’t have in her voice the volume required for singing this mellifluous song.
For sad songs,after Rafi,are undoubtedly Mukesh(if Rafi has a peer in quality,it is only this singer though I’d not like to argue about it.We all have our personal choices) and Talat Mahmood.
February 4th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Dhani Raam,
You asked a question about Kishore Asha duets?
Where do Kishore Asha duets stand in comparison?
Coud you please thorow some lights on KK-Asha duets of 80’s? Do not you think these were high standard songs (In other words real quality) songs and both singers complimented each other very well.
Some more examples ….
Lakdi nahi hai to ladki ka khmba hai.. bakbak mat kar (aaisa kuchhh)
Wah wah khel shru ho gaya…. kuchh mila kuchh gaya…. etc. etc…
do you want me to write many more? I think one person here knows more than me .. he can give you more of such QUALITY songs…
February 4th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Someone wrote here:
“And i never derail from topic, it is you guys always derail.. Please read all my post..If u guys don’t get anythign, then start talking abt Qawwalli, ghazal and blah blah.. I already replied on that.
No doubt, Rafi sang more songs than Kishore….But he is behind in quality.”
My reply : I agree wit him. Rafi sang more songs than KK many MD’s approached him. KK was non existent till 1969. So we all agree that Rafi was more preferred than KK so he sang more.
Now his second stament about quality… He said Rafi was behind in quality than KK. (This is the best analysis by him.. hats off. I can just agree)
I again agree with him. Rafi sang lots of songs till 1969 and KK sang very few. Quality of rafi songs were very low. I am not sure why every1 call 1950 and 1960 as Golden Period of Hindi music. I am sure that they must be referring to songs sung by other singers (other than Rafi)
KK came into lime light after 1969 and quality of Hindi music improved. However Rafi was right there till 1980 to provide non quality songs. so there was a balance (between quality songs and bad songs)
Only after Rafi’s death 1980, balance got tilted towards quality songs. KK sang many quality songs in 80’s Remember those Jitendra songs…
Taki ho Taki oo taki taki
Naino main sapna…
Mama miya pom pom…
Ek aankh marun to parda
Galo pe yej kaise nishaan
Icecream khaogi picture dekhogi… ha ha
Uiima uuima musshkil yeh kya ho gayi. sadi (nikal) hawa ho gayi
Zhopdei main charpai…
Mana mana maine mana main hun mawali (and many more….)
All these were real quality songs and required lots of singing talent.
February 4th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
In this post, I will not delve on who is better (as promised to Ashu), but lay out my perspective on the analysis methods (just like Sriram).
1. I think we have laid too much emphasis on “who overtook whom”. To me, it does not matter. Even Pankaj Mullick can be the greatest singer in Hindi films though he “overtook” no one in popularity in his lifetime. When we talk of the greatest singer, we need to look at the bigger picture.
2.The voice is just an instantaneous element, it does give us an instant impression, but does not say all. For example: I found Yesudas’s voice to be of extremely good quality, Bhupinder was too good in some songs, Anup Ghosal was great in “Tujhse Naaraz”.. Does not give a wholesome picture..Singing for Johnie Walker is supposed to be a bit rusty…One has to factor that in..
3. The era and associated circumstances are very important. What recording facilities were available at that time? Did the singer bring any fundamental change in singing? Was he a pioneer in some genre? There is a reason why Kishore idolizes Saigal..To the modern ear, Sonu Nigam is 100 times more attractive than Saigal. Does this mean, Sonu Nigam is a better singer than Saigal? Most likely NO.
4. How perfect/authentic was the singer in bringing out nuances of a genre? Example: Does the Bhatiali (boatman’s song in Bengal) sound like Bhatiali? That way Sachin Dev Burman was authentic in his treatment. “O Majhi re”, though hugely popular was not as authentic (just an example, not to demean Kishore).
5. Since we are judging film music, does the singer represent the scenes/sequences well in his expressions?
Of course the base qualities like perfection and voice matter a lot too..
February 4th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Ashu: I understand your frustrations. I don’t think you can generalize - both Rafi & Kishore fans are equally guilty. Sometimes it is a Rafian - another time it will be a KKKlan member
February 4th, 2008 at 6:02 am
To continue my analysis, I will go further and say that imo the graphs of *all* the greatest singers (Saigal, Mukesh, Manna Dey, HK, Lata, Rafi, KK, Asha, and yes, Alka, Udit) will be inverted Vs of more or less the *same height* (i.e viewer satisfaction on a weighted set of metrics) — they differ *only* in the *size of the base* of the V (range/capability/actors). For e.g even Mukesh ji is incomparable in so many songs, but his voice was suited to so few actors (perfect fit for only Raj Kapoor afaik).
If there is anything I would like to contribute to the discussion, it is that different singers will have differing scores on the various criteria (technical, voice quality, movie enhancement), so no one could be (or is) the best in all of these measures over all songs.
In order to measure the best, we have to construct a weighted set of measures (the weights are subjective), assign points to each singer for each song for each criterion (again subjective), calculate weighted score for each singer for each song, add up the scores to find the best.
I estimate this will take a century or two for even two singers
. For the moment, what say we just enjoy their songs?
Regards
Sriram