An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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January 30th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Ashu, you said Urdu is default language for Ghazal and Quawalli. Is it default language for Bhajans too?
Then if we go by you logic, KK must have sang more bhajans than Rafi. Please clarify if it is true.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Ashu,
You provided list of 1 patriotic song, 0 bhajan, 0 classical, 4 quwallis (though most of them do not even sound like Quwalli, vadda tera vadda is quawlli? does it sound like Quawalli?) and couple of ghazals by KK.
and you feel KK was more versatile than Rafi.. nice… I just agree with u.. We (and KK) have won the battle in versatility field of singing.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Dear Vikram..
Here what u wrrote:
You also object to when rafi fans talk about Ghazals, Quuawalis, Bhajans and patriotic songs. Ashu ji, to be a complete singer one should be able to sing just about anything. Rafi rendered everything with aplomb. Name any situation, Mohd. Rafi is right there. Republic Day, 15th August, Marriage ceremonies or for that matter any festivity, Rafi shines all over India through his songs. He is in India’s psyche. He is too big a person to be maligned by the evidence that you provide (factual or made up). He is way above comparision.
My reply
My answer is in term of question to you How many Qawaalis, Ghazals, Patriotic and blah blah offered to Kishore?Though he sang all song, of course less in quantity.
I must say, and Kishore is like Rafi in this category…They never dominated any of these categories though Rafi sang more songs in these category. I think Rafi is good in Qawaali..
My dear friend, Kishore sang for all categories but after 70s..
Qawwali:
1. Ek Baar Parde Se Kahin Jo, Chhum Se Tera Aana Ho
2. Haal Kya hai dilon ka na puchho sanam
3. Vaada tera vaada
4. Duniya Ke Bazaar Mein Bhaiya Chalta Khota Maal
Patriotic:
1. Dekho veer jawaano apne…
Personaly i like this song after my most fav. patriotic song from “Haqeeqat” sung by Rafi
Ghazal:
Many, but i will write 2..
1. AAye tum yaad mujhe
2. Kaise kahe hum
My analsyse on Qawwali and Ghazals:
I think everybody knows that Rafi’s mother language was Urdu, and in 50s and 60s. Our film industry is dominated by Urdu speaking lyricist except Shailendra and later Anand Bakshi, Indeevar, Anjaan. And Urdu is default language for Qawwali and Ghazals, that is why Rafi, Talat Mehmood was righ candiate for this kind of songs…
There was a song in “Zamaane ko Dikhana Hai”…”Puchho na yaar kya hua”. Though i am great admirer of Rafi, i must say Rafi didnot do justice to this song, especially when he sang…”Chak chak chakak chak…” in same song. Pls. listen and provide ur 180 degree view.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:38 am
My dear friend..
I think only Manna Dey sang most difficult songs, not Rafi…truth is whenever there are tough songs, MDs remember Manna Dey.
It is like this, when India needed somebody to stand at the stump and save the match , it would be none other than Dravid who did this difficult task for us.
No doubt Dravid is great, but versatile as Sachin.
I don’t understand…ki…tum log kaha kaha se fake baate likhte ho…
When udit narayan said that he belong to Rafi’ school? He(different voice) is not 10% of Rafi, but must be better than Sonu (Clone of Rafi). I watched Udit’s interview in Zee TV, he said he wanted to become like “KISHORE” and “RAFI” whose fame was no lesser than Heroes. You guys are talking abt Sonu Nigam, No doubt he is trained singer and sang some beautiful songs but his voice is faminine voice… I heard him singing “GAADI BULA RAHI HAI” in SA RA GA MA little Champ last week. He was worst. and my dear friend Vikram, Where i ssonu Nigam since last 2 yrs, and how many songs he is singing. I am sure he will be disappeared like Kumar Sanu near furure.
I must tell u he is singing lots of Kannada songs, because he is hardly getting good songs in Hindi.
Let me tell u abt Kishore’s influence.
According to me, Song of 2007 is from film “SAAWARIYA”. Most of the songs are sung in Kishore’s style.
- KK sang “AANKHO me Teri..”, Vishal told inhis interview that this song is influenced by Kishore.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Vipul and Sudip,
I can do nothing but laugh on ur comment that u r not aware of “TUm bin Jaao kaha”… Boss, u r free to say and write anything. This is democracy, but humble request don’t lie or don’t ignore the truth.
I never argue that KK never had training, it is true that he did not have any formal training and nobody stopped him to do so. But i am sure he would not be so impressive or effective as he was.
My dear friend, Though he did not get any formal training, he was very much aware of sur and taal. Pls. listen song “Paayal wali Dekhna” under Chitraguprta compostion, and this is pure semi-classical song.
Kishore always proved himself different, that is why he respected higher than any other comtemporary singers.
You wrote abt one song where Kishore sang better than Rafi,
Here u wrote:
Rafi was switching from high to low frequency, Kishore kept on singing in the mid scale.
My reply:
U r right, Kishore maintained his mid-scale, because he knew that will make the difference at end. Again, if everybody sing in same style then what is a fun, and what is an identity. Mere dost, Kishore was experimental and doesn’t care of anything whereas other trained singers were never accept challenge, and if by chance they accept then they fell down hard.
for e.g. Aaaja Aaaja main hu pyaar tere
Kishore used his singing style based on the requirment of song. For e.g. pls. analyse the song and range…
- Ek hasina thi, Ek diwaana tha
- Jab dard nahi tha sine me tab khakh maza tha jine me….
Pls. listen last antara and write ur comment.
And…
Abt “Hum premi prem karna jaane”
First line sing by Rafi very flat whereas Kishore modulate his voice when Amitabh started singing.
- Padosan
U said it can’t be compared because both sang in different style. U r absolutely right. Though it was sing in different style, Not only me but also many (Of course not u…Because u r next musical trainer singer after Rafi)felt that Kishore won the battle. Can u sing ” a aa e eeeeee u uuuuuu” in sure? Noone can sing, trained singer can sing “AALAP” but not this. This is the real difference and impact.
I am sure u people might have heard ( “Meri pyari Bindu”…Hilarious situation has dominated this song, but listen this song (don’t watch) and analyse Kishore’s voice modulation and range…
ha aa..I think Vikram might have not heard of this song…Pls. visit musicindiaonline.com for these songs.
I don’t care for difficult or simple, i just care abt execution. If execution is perfect, nothing is difficult. That is true in case of Kishore.
I’ll tell u scenario, There was match between SA and India….There was a bowler named DeVillier, He got out Sachin in first 3 matches badly. Sachin worked very hard on his footwork problem, and rest of the matched he smashed DeVillier every corner of the ground.
Morale of the story is, May be things are difficult (I m not agree in case of Kishore…Just repeating ur words), but if execution and implementation is great then nothing like this…
January 30th, 2008 at 5:50 am
Vipul: disagree about Ek Chatur Naar. It wasn’t a classical singing contest as you know. It was just all around comedy. It wasn’t serious singing. And Kishore won big for the comedy. To even assess that song musically is ridiculous. Manna was a technically superior singer to Kishore - but like Ashu - I agree he would not reach the same heights. It is because he didn’t have the same magic or filmy voice of Rafi or Kishore. He certainly had magic for that legendary song in Waqt - but generally speaking - he was behind Kishore & Rafi. the debate is ALWAYS between Rafi vs Kishore or Kishore vs Rafi - no other singers are mentioned. These two are clearly the top two.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:57 am
Few additions / clarifications
When I talk about loving the Kishore personality - I didn’t put enough emphasis on his amazing voice. I love his VOICE very much too (maybe not for ALL types of songs - but for many thousands of songs he sang).
And when I was talking about Aaja Intezar I meant that when you’re grown up and you hear that song all of a sudden - you may not know the title, MD, or even singer - but you’ll know you’ve heard it.
And finally, Tumhari Nazar was a good song but it is far from the best Rafi-Lata duet or the best song of Rafi or Ravi. So that just happened to be the first song of the CD - it would be silly to use that song to compare - but that was never the purpose.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:27 am
The confessions of a Rafi fan…
This post doesn’t contribute to the debate. Since I’ve made several posts in this forum I’d like to share more about my musical journey. The intention isn’t to compare singers in this post (even if it seems to do so in favor of Kishore - that isn’t the purpose).
I vividly remember the first line of any song that touched my heart: it was when I was 5 years old and heard the opening of “Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara” by Rafi. He expressed emotions so dearly! I want to add that if anyone else but Kishore was the co-singer of that song - it wouldn’t be as special to me as it is. Nevertheless, I didn’t pick up with music at that age - I kept associating music with movies and had never heard of legends like Kishore Kumar or Mohd Rafi. I had consciously “forgotten” about the Dostana song for at least another 7-8 years - but it was always in the back of my mind.
So from the age of 6-12, I would watch Amitabh Bachchan movies laying around my house. And Kishore was the voice of Amitabh! So for those years I was a big KK bhakt (and I still am - give me a chance). Kishore Kumar had a REALLY COOL VOICE. It was FUN, it had lots of PERSONALITY (KK’s brilliant personality that is). As mentioned before, many songs became extremely popular thanks to that Kishore personality touch to his songs. Even a child could appreciate the Kishore personality (and please don’t misunderstand this as saying Kishore was childish or any nonsense like that - he was a brilliant, lively personality that was the favorite co-singer of many as he made them cheerful). Famous examples are Zindagi Ek Safar Hai Suhana and Chai Pe Bulaya (why were they so popular AND to this DAY remembered so well? certainly not a wave - but thanks to the AWESOME Kishore Kumar). I can clearly understand if someone became absolutely enchanted with that Kishore spectrum and always kept that at #1. Kishore Kumar is a world of his own.
As you can imagine - anyone child living in a typical Indian household will have heard songs that they KNOW they’ve heard - even if they didn’t recognize the title, singer, etc. For me, “Aaja Intezar” from Halaku is a great example as is “Inteha Hogaya” from Sharabi. But often they are sub-consciously remembered. So at the age of 13 I was looking for a bunch of CDs to listen to as I was bored. Went through my parent’s CD collection and found boring bhajans, LOTS of Kishore Kumar & Lata Mangeshkar audio cassettes. I could only play CD as I was listening on my computer CD-Rom (remember those lol - back in my day hahaha). There was one Lata Mangeshkar CD of duets with some chap named - Mohammed Rafi! At the time I didn’t realize this is the same person whose voice loved as a child.
So the first song I heard was “Tumhari Nazar Kiu Kaffa” from Do Kaliyan. One of my immediate thoughts was “this guy isn’t Kishore Kumar”. In fact, don’t want to upset anyone, forgive me, I was a 13 year old clown, but compared to Kishore Kumar’s energetic & playful songs - the opening lines of Tumhari Nazar Kiu Kaffa appeared kind of boring (yet technically perfect and with excellent tone & voice - I could detect that even as a child). But you know? - where was the Kishore antics that I found so much fun? The opening was just sung perfectly but with no coolness factor. Of course now I know that that song was not meant to be COOL like some of my favorite KK songs - but was meant to be ROMANTIC (which btw - don’t expect a 13 year old to understand). How was I to understand that? But you can see the effect of Kishore Kumar!
Of course - I listened to that CD again when my father made me sit on a PC and pretend do homework (and I was sneakfully listening to the CD to do anything BUT do homework). I come upon “Rangat Teri Surat Se” and like the singer even more. Later I find out that Mohd Rafi is the chap who rendered Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara & John Johnny Janardhan - I listen to those songs again since many years - I LOVE RAFI. The wave doesn’t take full effect until 2006 when youtube makes these songs even more publicly available. Then I go CRAZY and you see me enthusiastically being a Rafian. Bear in mind that today we get exposed / access to music much faster than people 40 years ago who didn’t have this technology. So 2 years of listening today can equate to many years of listening in 1960 (just a suggestion / guess - how would I know). And I explore Rafi’s expansive career and he just hits me gem after gem. I just haven’t gotten around to revisiting Kishore Kumar as comprehensively as I’d like to. I have lots of songs.
The saddest song that makes me depressed is Kishore’s Zindagi Ke Safar Mein and the only song ever that made me cry was Sholay’s “Yeh Dosti” sad version (picturization must have helped too lol). Yet, my “favorite” (what the heck does that mean?) sad song is “Yahan Main Ajnabi Hoon” (I’m not sure if this is really a sad song - the situation isn’t nearly as bad as it is in the first two). There - 3 different favorites! It is like going to a paint shop and asking for white paint and the guy gives you 37 whites to choose from.
Just recently I was listening to Yahan Mai Ajnabi Hoon and got tired after repeating it 3 times. I had to resort to Zindagi Ka Safar Mein which I loved - then I went back to YMAH which I also loved! I need ALL the singers - one is not enough and one cannot replace the other’s contributions (hence makes it silly to compare within a particular spectrum). But comparing is fun sometimes. So yes, I was an ardent KK fan, have heard many of his songs, need to listen to him always, and have yet to finish exploring all his awesome songs!
January 30th, 2008 at 3:41 am
THANKS to the KK fan who runs this site that approves all the posts by Rafians. Mast Mast was absolutely right to point that out - he must be a great man. I really argue on the matter because it is fun to discuss - but arguing who was the greatest is very complicated. I do think you can do so for the OVERALL, GENERAL spectrum - but many fans only care for part of the spectrum. That spectrum could be only Kishore Kumar songs - so how can you tell that fan who is greater? When I do - it is my OPINION for the overall spectrum.
I also want to revise my foolish statement about Kumar Sanu and his 3 songs (1) Tujhe Dekha To Yeh Jaana Sanam (2) Kisi Roz Tumse Mulaqat Hogi (3) Yeh Kaali Kaali Ankhen. They were very good songs rendered by well by Sanu. They should be left alone as his songs. And they are compositions that don’t require the SUPREME abilities of Kishore Kumar or Mohammed Rafi - Kumar Sanu’s abilities suffice. But if Rafi or Kishore were to sing those songs - they would be better (but there’s no need for it). Clearly I’m still learning. My favorite singers (1) Rafi (2) Kishore Kumar (3) Lata Mangeshkar (4) assortments. I cannot LIVE without ALL 3 SINGERS - just Rafi alone is NOT enough nor is Lata or Kishore alone.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
“Rafisaab’s voice was of course his greatest blessing. High-pitched or soft,there was a certain namrataa in it. The inimitable harkatein and taan were all a natural part of his talent.”
- Lata Mangeshkar
INIMITABLE
January 29th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Vipul wrote:
“People argue that KK never had classical training, but who stopped him?”
-Actually Kishore did take classical training under Dilshad Khan. Everyone in the industry right from Lata to Sunidhi Chauhan to Kumar Sanu undergo classical trainings.
Each of them have gurus that they train under (some of these are unheard of). It is a silly and baseless propaganda that one does not have classical training.
-Between 1948 and 1969 Kishore acted in around 60 odd movies. That’s 3 movies a year-that too not exactly the Naseeruddin Shah types.. So what was he doing in his spare hours? OK.. He was romancing Ruma and Madhubala..Still it does not add up..Of course he was into music..
January 29th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
all kk fans shud b gr8ful to pancham as he single handedly provided kk dat slot for which kk was struggling from past 20 years……..
but how much it takes out of rafi sahab????
answer is nothing, as pure golden eras 50s & 60s were ruled by rafi sahab,,
January 29th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
pancham once commented in 1971(in radio show)
“” ek gana jisko sunke mera bachpan mein b utna hi dil dhadakta tha jitna ki aaj, naushad saab aur rafi sahab ka……… tu ganga ki mauj mein jamuna ka dhaar “”
pancham many times showed his gr8 respet for rafi saahab & naushad ji…………….
January 29th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Who was more comfortable at high scale? Rafi or KK.
I will let Ashu answer the question.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Who was more comfortable at hig scale? Rafi or KK.
I will let Ashu answer the question.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Sudip, Naive comment on Ek Chatur naar… Manna (though lost in movie) actually outclassed KK by a huge margin. KK can never sing even 10% of Manna Day as manna was classically trained.
People argur that KK never had classical traning, but who stopped him?
I can also say that I can play better cricket than Sachin but I did not take any training and blah blah…
January 29th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
As far as the interview with Pancham is concerned, I think it was exaggerated.
Having said that, I think Kishore really grasped Pancham’s moods. I have mentioned time and again, that bonding between the MD and the singer is important and Kishore and Pancham shared that (just as Rafi shared such with Jai or LP). Pancham in the interview is speaking about Rafi’s (in)ability to grasp what he wanted..He has not commented on Rafi’s singing ability..And I think we should honor Pancham’s point of view.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Ashu wrote:
“As you cleverly said, Kishore and Rafi approached were difficult. My dear friend, that is the real difference between them.”
-Very much so.. But we are looking at the same thing from 180 degree opposite angles.
You wrote: “I differ on “Laila Majnu”. Songs are great, but i can’t excite to listen it again and again….I can’t listen it more than once. I don’t rate these songs very high except one from Lata…”
-So you think “Barbad-E-Mohabbat” should not be “highly rated”? . Man… you need to fine tune your musical senses. And I would still insist Chingari was flat (btw, I do have musical training). It was well sung with a golden voice, but thats about it.. Next time you state there are vocal modulations in Chingari, please mention which line, which matra, which swar.. And why you think it was a big deal..I have seen students sing Chingari in college socials and do reasonable justice. Of course none of them had a golden voice like Kishore (which I always admit), but none of them had problems with the tune (sur).
And what do you exactly mean when you say Kishore sang better than Manna in Padosan? They sang so differently that it should not be even compared. Let me tell you this.. If we swapped Manna and Kishore in “Ek Chatur Naar”, Manna will still deliver something (maybe half as good as Kishore), Kishore will not deliver anything…
We definitely listen with different presences-that’s why I think Rafi was way better in Hum Premee prem karna janey.. Now let me give you an example of modulation from a song which I think Kishore sang better than Rafi. I had written in the past that Kishore was better than Rafi in “Mere dildaar ka bakhpan”. But if you listen to the last stanza (the jugalbandi style duel), Rafi was switching from high to low frequency, Kishore kept on singing in the mid scale. As you rightly said, he could do that so easily and cover that up because he had a golden bass.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Ashu, until recently I was not even aware of the Kishore Kumar version of “Tum Bin”. And to tell you the truth, it is definitely in no way better than Rafi’s. The yodelling that you guys talk about so often was pedestrian in this particular song. KK’s version is without a soul. Rafi’s, on the other hand sounds sweet and to the point. Yodelling is not a requirement to be a good singer. Sonu Nigam never yodels and is still the number one playback singer, far ahead of the below average Kishore clones. Udit Narayan’s style is more closer to Kishore Kumar’s, but he still feels proud to associate himself with Rafi school. Those third rate singers on K for Kishore can yodel as good as Kishore Kumar. They try to hide their bad singing with yodelling. To me yodelling sounds funny. There are better ways to add quality and make a song good. Rafi new that very well. If you talk about songs like ‘Dukhi Man Mere’ or ‘Hum Bewafa Hargiz’, it would make more sense.You are fighting for a cause that was lost 58 years ago. I like your fighting spirit though. Good luck to you.
The whole world knows (Wherever hindi songs are followed) that Rafi sang some of the most difficult songs ever recorded. “Dil Aaj Shayar Hai” is of course a very good song. Kishore has done full justice to it. But, to characterise it as difficult would just not be right. It might have been difficult for Kishore, but would have been a cake walk for Rafi. The high notes that you are talking about in this song was a routine for Rafi. I have seen a lot of kids on “SAREGAMA little CHAMPS” render Kishore songs with utmost ease. I am talking about little kids here. Whenever they attempt Rafi songs, they cut a sorry figure. Compared with Rafi, Kishore songs are too easy to sing even for a rank average singer.
You also object to when rafi fans talk about Ghazals, Quuawalis, Bhajans and patriotic songs. Ashu ji, to be a complete singer one should be able to sing just about anything. Rafi rendered everything with aplomb. Name any situation, Mohd. Rafi is right there. Republic Day, 15th August, Marriage ceremonies or for that matter any festivity, Rafi shines all over India through his songs. He is in India’s psyche. He is too big a person to be maligned by the evidence that you provide (factual or made up). He is way above comparision.
Nobody gives a damn about what Asha Bhonse says or does not say. As I said earlier, she is a very selfish person. The duets that she recorded with Rafi are identified with him. Case in point, ‘Chura Liya Hai’ ‘Aaja Aaja Main Hoon’ (The one about which she is spreading those lies), ‘O Haseena Julfon’ and tens of more. Once she ditched OP Nayyer for RD Burman, when the latter was basking in the glory. It’s another issue that it was the former who made her whatever she is today. During the Rafi-Lata divide she ditched her sister (Lata). Lata boycotted Rafi for good three years. It did not affect Asha. She latched on to the opportunity and sang countless duets with Rafi. Later on when she had developed a niche for herself she made up with Lata.
Rafi was and would remain the best for eternity.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Ashu saheb,
Please tell us how many patriotic songs, Ghazals, Quwallis, Bhjans. Classical songs were sung by KK? Please mention those songs here.
I am sure there will be a huge list of KK songs compared to much smaller or non exsitent list of Rafi songs. I myself do not know but since you know a lot I am sure you will come up with that list and shut the mouth of rafians.
By providiong this list, you and I can prove that KK was more versatile than Rafi. Let the bset one win
January 29th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
http://www.screenindia.com/20020726/mcov2.html
A very good article…..
January 29th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
ashu ji,,
plz dnt get so much confused as u hav mentioned my write up as mr.sudip’s…..
well first of all i never compare kk wd himmesh as himmesh is nowhere against him,,
i said that media is hyping himmesh over jagjeet & hariharan,, media is not praising but just hyping which doesnt mean himmesh is more popular,, juss mentioned all this to prove dat “media cant alwyas b rite”….
and ashu ji its really unfair that u compairing renditions of voi, sa re ga ma guys wd those of rafi sahab’s….
ashu sir, plz have some good taste of music,, as even mentors(more knowledgeble dan all of us) of those musical shows never dared to speak or think like this, as they all aware of the heights attained by rafi sahab in playback….
as far as early 70s is concd,, rafi sahab was always there wd qualiity songs,,
here are stats of 70-74
kk-rafi
1970: 47-131
1971: 102-131
1972: 137-95
1973: 146-80
1974: 137-83
in terms of quantity margin is really very less,, but in terms of quality rafi sahab was alwys dre wd lp,rdb,sdb,mm,….
how one can forget
>tum jo mil gaye ho(wd mm)
>mera mann tera pyasa(wd sdb)
>gulabi aaakhen(wd rdb)
>mujhe teri mohabat ka(duet song wd lp)
>tum mjhe yun(wd sj)………
also i consider 1969-74 period only as rise of kishore,, and major hand in dis rise was of rahul dev burman’s gr8 tunes….
also i consider rafi sahab as gr8 coz of the late 40s, 50s & 60s where he rendered some truly gr8 songs wd truly gr8 maestros maestros like naushad, sj, sdb,roshan,mm,opn,ravi,jaidev,chitragupt…….kk was never d first choice of these magical mds ,, not even second or third(exept sdb) …
my meter for measuring gr8ness is not binaca geet mala,, as in 60s many times mk songs were there in top 10,,when kk not even used to find place in top 20… it doesnt mean mk is better….
i consider kk much better than mk….
rafi sahab is greatest coz:::
>his class appeal is just amazing,, also he is most famous playback singer among d crores of classical music lovers, he is also fav of some truly classical gems like pt.jasraj ji……
>rafi sahab was also very popular among south gr8 artists like illaya raja, yesudas,, both admired rafi sahab a lot,, even many die hard yesudas fans from south admire rafi sahab among playback singers of bollywood…
>among the bollywood music lovers,, no doubt kk is popular but rafi sahab is/was also popular among d masses,, his rock n rolls wd sj r still very much popular……
>rafi sahab bagged higher number of evergreen songs in comparison to odrs,, specially from 50s & 60s which r still as melodious as they used to be….
>rafi sahab proved himself in every genere of singing,,
>and last but not least all his contmps(mukesh,manna,kishore) always showed their high regards for rafi sahab,, manna always accept rafiji’s supeiority over him,,
kk also said once that “rafi sahab tak koi nahi pahuch sakta “….
i think kishore da was really very nice human being,, never played any dirty politics against rafi sahab,, they both were gr8 frnds & admires of each odr….
January 29th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Ashu wrote:
“Many people means only you rafians. Actual music lover and music knowlegable always admire Kishore especially in thi song, because there is variety. Rafi sang this song as any other song. Kishore made this song “SPECIAL”. That is a real difference between great and greatest.
My dear friend, You will not be sure, but i am sure and 100% agree that Kishore’s version is much better than Rafi. I can’t compare singing because both songs singing style is different, and Kishore is far ahead of Rafi as far as playback concern.”
“Rafi sang this song as any other song” - that is true - and he sang it splendidly. To him, it was NOT a competition that KK fans have made it out to be. RD Burman took Rafi’s spool and gave it to Kishore to practice on (no problem with that - I enjoy listening to Kishore version too - glad to see Kishore do the best he could do) but it gets silly when you compare. So this song was just like any for Rafi as you correctly said - but for Kishore - it was COMPOSED to make him look his best - yoodlee Kishore!
“I can’t compare singing because both songs singing style is different, and Kishore is far ahead of Rafi as far as playback concern.”
Then why are you comparing lol?
Kishore is far ahead of playback? Here’s a question to you - for which actors did Kishore give the most hits and for which actors did Rafi give the most hits TILL 1980 (not after)? It is hardly disputed that Rafi could modulate his voice to match the actor whereas Kishore could not (thanks to his special barritone) and the actors had to struggle to match to his voice. Dilip Kumar in Sala Mein to Sahab Bangaya is a fine example (and I agree with you - Dilip did not do justice to it - but he tried and couldn’t as Kishore’s voice is barritone and he didn’t have that). For Kishore, all I see is Amitabh & Rajesh. For Rafi - the list would be too long! Rafi was incomparably superior as playback singer with little limit.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Ashu - I wasn’t shocked at all with 1971. I always acknowledged that Kishore was #1 COMMERCIALLY from 1971-1976 (give or take). It was the Kishore wave. Songs that are forgotten today were very popular in that time. We also argued the mechanics behind it. But my point was that from 1977-1980 - Rafi was back to #1. Can you explain why it was 6-2 Rafi in 1980?
It is true that Kishore was always a top singer after 1969 and that while according to me and the charts Rafi was #1 by late 70s - he was not the only one. He was not purely undisputed as he was in the 60s - Kishore was there. And there weren’t as many great MDs so we didn’t have nearly the same output in quality. But Rafi can’t be blamed for that - and it doesn’t mean that he was as high as any singer could be in the late 70s. He was.
Maybe I’m the only one - but I listen to Rafi for 2 days, Kishore for a day, and then some Lata solos every now and then. I love Rafi & Kishore but after listening to them for a long time - I don’t enjoy them as much so I need a break with a new voice - whether it is Rafi, Kishore (not Lata because I hear her occasionally compared to other 2). But then I quickly return. That way I enjoy all singers. There are many who’ll admit they cannot listen for 4 hrs a day for 2 weeks straight the same singer. If this doesn’t apply to you - you are a minority (nothing wrong with that). So by 1977 - the Kishore break was over and people returned to the ultimate voice - Mohd Rafi. Kishore himself was great so he was also popular - but Rafi is Rafi.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
My dear friend Manish,
Sorry to reply in multple blog.
You wrote:
A more fair comparison would be a more sophisticated song rendered by both singers like “Chalkaaye Jaam” from Mere Hamdam Mere Dost or lol a song like “Nafrat Ki Duniya’ that required multi-faceted emotions.
Above songs are superb and greatly sung by Rafi. Chhalkaye jaam is real gem, DHarmendra did not act properly. I like “Chhalkaye jaam” and at the same time i like “Doston mere kisse ho gaye khatm saarey”. Later song was not very famous, but i am sure no singer could hav eexecuted this song better than Kishore.
My dear friend, as i wrote in my previous blogs that you can’t compare singer based on their indivisual songs. You can’t compare 1:1.
You can compare singer by asking them to sing one song and judge based on that. So according to me, you can’t judge Kishore and Rafi based on their indivisual songs as all are gem, but yes u can compare them in following song..
- Tum bin jaao kaha
- Hum premi prem karna jaane
- Tumko khush dekhkar main bahut khush hua
- Tera jalwa touba hai tera jalwa
- Ek mahal maa chhamchham karti rahi dui shahazadi (completely surpass Rafi)
- Jaanu meri jaan
By the way i did not hear on Binaca Geet Mala….Did u count no. of hit songs in chartbuster?