An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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January 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
my dear Manish ,
you wrote:
Despite that - many many people will feel the Rafi version was better (and many many people will feel the Kishore version was better).
Interestingly, I am not even sure if Kishore’s version beat the Rafi version IN 1969 charts. Maybe 1970s when the wave was on - but 1969 - I’m not sure.
My reply:
Many people means only you rafians. Actual music lover and music knowlegable always admire Kishore especially in thi song, because there is variety. Rafi sang this song as any other song. Kishore made this song “SPECIAL”. That is a real difference between great and greatest.
My dear friend, You will not be sure, but i am sure and 100% agree that Kishore’s version is much better than Rafi. I can’t compare singing because both songs singing style is different, and Kishore is far ahead of Rafi as far as playback concern.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
What u wrote was 100% correct abt Padosan. Since Manna was respected as classical singer, and Kishore was not taken seriously by MDs during 50s and mid 60s (This movies release in 68-69). What Mehmood did is 100% correct, There is saying in HIndi…
“Moika padne par Gadhhe ko bhi baap banana padta hai” so Mehmood did exactly what situation requires.
Note: Intention behind this phrase is not to hurt anybody. I am sorry if i hurt anybody.
Mere dost, i think u find this anecdote hilarious, but i find it pity. I think everybody know the end result of the song….Kishore emerged as a winner. Not only as singer but also as a performer. This has been openely acepted by Manna Dey.
I was pity with Manna, because he undeestimated Kishore….
January 29th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
There is correction in my 3rd last blog:
It was
Please read my words and try to understand…
Many times I wrote Rafi was almost there in music industry during 70s, but it was HKSKN and AAA brought him in limelight again. But history witness that he never get the same position which he enjoyed in 80s
It is 60s not 80s….
Sorry abt it.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Manish Mere dost,
One shocking news for you…
in 71…Here is the list of top 14 songs (I already mentioned sometime back in my blog)
Kishore – 9, Rafi – 1, Manna Dey – 1, Asha – 2 (1 with Kishore), Lata – 1, MK - 1
This was completely dominated by Kishore (Most songs are Solo)…
If you don’t trust, then pls. feel free to visit this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaca_Geetmala_annual_list_1971
January 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Dear friend Manish,
My analyses on songs. I hope u watch singing competition on couple of channels. There are many classical trained singer who easily execute Rafi’s song brilliantly, but they fail to sing Kishore’s songs.
For e.g.
- Guy from Dubai …2nd runner up in SA RE GA MA PA
- Abhas from VOI
Above 2 name are good singers, and they executed classical song technically correct, but they fail to sing “WOH SHAAM KUCHH AJEEB THI” and”YE KYA HUA”.
Please watch SA RE GA MA and VOI.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Dear Manish,
If we don’t have another Rafi, then do we have another Kishore. We can’t have another Rafi, kishore, Mukesh, Lata and Asha. They all are unique.
Bhai mere, I don’t understand what u write …
Earlier u said his song was there chartbuster more in quantity since 76. Now u published list of 80s, which has more songs. does it mean he is superior to anyone in 80s. You might not know, Rafi song was there in 81 and 82. Solo kishore was there on top
Abt RDB interview, First of all, it is not fake. Same thing told by Asha in her interview on her last birthday, and it was telecast on all news channels. I myself watched that interview.
FYI i already wrote abt it in my blog…
Please read my words and try to understand…
Many times I wrote Rafi was almost there in music industry during 70s, but it was HKSKN and AAA brought him in limelight again. But history witness that he never get the same position which he enjoyed in 80s.
January 29th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Funny thing is - Mannade was deeply insulted when RD asked him to loose the “singing contest” to Kishore in Padosan. He protested it’d be silly for him to lose to a singer like Kishore. Mehmood the producer had the calm him down and assure him that he was better than Kishore. I just find that anecdote hilarious.
January 29th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
You brought up Tum Bin Jaoon Kahan - so let’s talk about that.
First, it is a silly comparison because the moods were different (to compare a soulful rendition to a romantic rendition is to say an apple is better than an orage) and the songs were different too (yodelling being the primary & significant difference). If yodelling is what made a singer - then goats would be Gods. Luckily, Kishore was a great singer - not just a yodeller. Hear just the singing and Kishore’s is flat in comparisons to Rafi’s. Singing versus singing - Rafi was superior.
Interestingly, Kishore had already rendered this song in Bengali 2 yrs prior and it was a big hit. This composition was designed FOR yoodleyee Kishore by his #1 composer - RD Burman. So of course Kishore would be at his best here and no weaknesses would be exposed. The composition did not take nearly full advantage of all that Rafi could offer. Surely an MD of RD’s talent was very very well aware of this. Despite that - many many people will feel the Rafi version was better (and many many people will feel the Kishore version was better).
Interestingly, I am not even sure if Kishore’s version beat the Rafi version IN 1969 charts. Maybe 1970s when the wave was on - but 1969 - I’m not sure. I’d have to check the charts but even then - it is a small matter. Kishore fans make a big deal about this song - funny - cause it is the best that KK has to offer. A more fair comparison would be a more sophisticated song rendered by both singers like “Chalkaaye Jaam” from Mere Hamdam Mere Dost or lol a song like “Nafrat Ki Duniya’ that required multi-faceted emotions.
January 29th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
clarifications: when I say Rafi is #1 - I mean both Binaca Geet Mala with Daffliwale AND as a singer COMMERCERIALLY (nevermind musically - that was NEVER in doubt). 6-2!
January 29th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Ashu: Address this specifically - Binaca Geet Mala top 10 for year 1980
1. Dafli waale dafli bajaa mere ghunghroo bulaate (rafi, lata)
2. Meri umar ke naujawaanon dil na lagaana o deewaanon (kishore)
3. Sheesha ho ya dil ho aakhir toot jaata hai (lata)
4. (tie) Aap jaisa koi meri zindagi mein aaye to baat ban jaaye (nazia)
4. (tie) Saawan ke jhoole pade tum chale aao (lata)
4. (tie) Pardesiya yeh sach hai piya sab (kishore, lata)
5. Koyal boli duniya doli samjho dil ki boli (rafi, lata)
6. Laila main laila aisi hoon laila har koi chaahe (lata)
7. Ai yaar sun yaari teri mujhe zindagi se (rafi, asha)
8. Pal do pal ka saath hamaara pal do pal (rafi, asha)
9. Teri rab ne bana di jodi too haan kar (rafi, asha)
10. Simti hueen yeh ghadiyaan phir se na bikhar (rafi, lata)
Score reads 6-2 in favor of Rafi who is also at #1. And you’re telling me Rafi wasn’t on top in 1980 (we could argue 1977-1980 but I’ll do 1980 for now). Do you need to see the May 1980 charts too?
January 29th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Ashu - there are serious doubts / questions about the authenticity of the interview. It isn’t on tape and this interview conveniently appears 17 yrs from when it was “conducted” and long, long after both RDB & Rafi can verify the truthfulness. I’d be interested in contacting Shammi Kapoor about this. More importantly, RD Burman has made statements on TAPE that directly contradict those quotes. I find it hard to believe a musical genius like RDB would say those quotes and several of RDent fanatics feel the same. I know you’re going to say I’m just ignoring the truth or believing what I want to believe lol…but I try to be logical and truthful (no one can change the truth so accept it). I ask you to read this ANALYSIS (not saying the article is fact but analysis is sensible) and pay attention to RDB’s description:
http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/a-letter-to-raju-bharatan-on-rock-%e2%80%99n-roll.html
January 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Ashu wrote: “Give Rafis’ songs to any trained singer, he will execute those songs in same way(may be not 100%, but near to it), but same is not true in case of Kishore’ song.”
Absolutely false. If this was true - there have been lots of trained singers before, during, and after Rafi. Why haven’t we had another Rafi as of yet? My friend, you’d be stretching the reasonable limits of subjectivity if you suggested a trained singer could render a song like Yahan Main Ajnabi Hoon, Yeh Mera Prem Patra, Ehsaan Tera Hoga with nearly the effect of Rafi. Because for Rafi it wasn’t just vocal technique or ability - it was his mastery of taan / harkatein as Lata Mangeshkar specifically addressed and what other posters have previously reported. He’d carefully stretch or pronounce each word with perfect emotion / feeling. Kishore could do it too but IN MY OPINION Rafi could perfectly express a wider repertoire of emotions (romantic mood immediately comes to mind) and was multi-faceted in that aspect. Interestingly this also addresses your second point - which many insiders in the industry such as Lata Mangeshkar and SDB would contradict. Why did SDB choose Rafi for the three solos of Guide? Maybe technically those songs weren’t the most challenging to sing - but they required the ability to perfectly express taan / harkatein - for which SDB felt Rafi was better suited than Kishore.
Ashu wrote: “Kishore and Rafi, had these capability to send their vocal harkat to common man, and in the area i will always rate Kishore better than Rafi.”
January 29th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Here is link…RDb talks abt Rafi and Kishore.
http://www.naachgaana.com/2008/01/05/rafi-wasnt-able-to-grasp-the-nuances%E2%80%A6-rd-burman/
January 29th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Great blog by Sanjeev..
Reason for posting this blog to let you aware of kishore’s fav.
He respect Rafi, but his fav. were somebody else.
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Yaadon ki Baarat
Kishoreda means a lot to me. Evenings become mine very rarely, and when they do, I like to dedicate them to Kishoreda. The only times I interact with him, laugh with him, cry with him and get philosophical with him, are when I switch on my age-old tape-recorder and listen to him sing. I still consider Im not qualified to write about such a great man. But I sincerely want him to adorn my blog. The best way I could do it is by having a piece written on Kishoreda by a music lover – a superb singer himself. Join me as I walk with VG Muralikrishnan down memory lane where Kishoreda’s voice still reverberates. Incidentally, let me add Muralikrishnan is today a known name in Malayalam filmdom.
He never attended parties. He loved watching horror films. He played with his toy spooks. He made friends with the trees in his garden; he talked to them. And when he was free, he sang. Kishore Kumar Ganguly saw life as a foolish game, wherein rules where made to be broken.
“In this avaricious world, every creative person is bound to be lonely. How can you deny me that right?” he asked. Yet, he married four times. He could not read the notations. Nor could he name more than three classical singers without prompting. Yet, he sang as if he was possessed. He complained of his filmmakers “who know nothing”. But when Satyajit Ray offered him him a role in his famous comedy, ‘Parash Pathar’, he literally ran away.”I was so scared,” he said. He loved to live life in his own way. As with all other great men, it was contradictions that made Kishore Kumar.
When he arrived in Bombay, Kishore Kumar Ganguly had four idols: K.L. Saigal, Marlon Brando, Boris Karloff and Topol of ‘Fiddler on the Roof’ fame. His greatest wish was to meet the legendary Kundan Lal Saigal. He also wanted to be a singer.
He arrived in Bombay as “the younger brother of the great Dadamoni, Asok Kumar”. And soon, he found himself doing bit roles as an actor. He hated acting but was too scared to tell his elder brother. Singing was confined to the bathroom, and Kishore hit the silver screen with a new brand of comedy that bordered on insanity. He tried his best to shrug off the actor’s robes. He troubled his directors to the ends of the world — He filled his eyes with romance while on an action routine. He looked into the eyes of his ‘lover’ like a monster on the prowl. The more he tried to escape, the more he was loved. And he became the second biggest draw after Dilip Kumar. He was so busy that Mohammed Rafi was assigned to sing for him in ‘Sharaarat’.
The comic roles he played in films such as ‘Half Ticket’, ‘Chalti ka Naam Gaadi’, ‘Padosan’ and ‘Jhumroo’ made him popular but he remained trapped in an image that did not project his real self. This forced him into fimmaking: In films such as ‘Door Gagan ke Chaon Mein’ (1964) and ‘Door ka Rahi’ (1971), Kishore did what he always wanted too do — sing “sad songs and do serious roles”.
Nobody was sure who the real Kishore Kumar was. Not even the man himself. He kept the world guessing. He acted, he sang, he wrote lyrics, he composed tunes, he directed films…
As a singer, he began by imitating Saigal. In life, he imitated none.
The Kishore, who we remember today, is only a fragment of the phenomenon he actually was. As was his wish, Kishore is still remembered for his recorded voice than his onscreen pranks. After a long wait of almost three decades, Kishore struck gold as a singer. Rejected by almost all major music directors in the dawn of his career, Kishore found his mentor in S. D. Burman and a lifelong friend in R. D. Burman. He had no guru who could teach him the nuances of music. But when he sang, his voice transformed the song into an emotional entity. Arguably, Kishore was the only Indian playback singer, who acted out his songs. His renditions were earthy, if not ethereal. Constantly bullied by the music critics of his age, Kishore was looked upon as a symbol of irreverence that was considered the hallmark of Hindi movies of the Seventies. But he outlived the critics, and goes on yodelling in the hearts of thousands of admirers the world over.
Kishore Kumar constantly complained about the world he found himself in. “In this crazy world, only the truly sane man appears to be mad,” he said, a few days before his death. He used to keep a skull in the bedroom, with red light emerging from its eyes, just to keep himself posted on “the futility of life”. He braved the emotional disasters in his life with the mind of a clown. The sadness, he invested in his songs. The world called Kishore Kumar “crazy”. He sang innumerable songs that carried his answer to the world. “Rote hue aate hain sab, hansta hua jo jaayega, woh muqaddar ka sikander kehlayega…!
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January 29th, 2008 at 10:31 am
My dear friend,
I never sidelined ur blog. I already replied list of Binaca Geet Mala chartbuster. I differ on “Laila Majnu”. Songs are great, but i can’t excite to listen it again and again….I can’t listen it more than once. I don’t rate these songs very high except one from Lata…
…If you are talking abt Classical singer, then i can argue on taan, nakhj and other phase of the songs.
But here we are talking abt playback singing.
According to me, playback singing is singing which touches common man heart with bang. Common man should relate himself with the song in first hearing itself. It should not be like today where u listen one song 100 times and still not able to understand.
Kishore and Rafi, had these capability to send their vocal harkat to common man, and in the area i will always rate Kishore better than Rafi.
Regd Suresh Wadkar interview, Before conculding interview he said any music program will be incomplete without mentioning Kishore;s name and he gone ahead with telling one story during “BEMISAAL” song where he told abt kishore versatality. People like Rafi, Manna Dey, MK, Suresh Wadkar, Sonu Nigam are/were hesitate to accept Kishore’s popularity.
There was great interview by Manna Dey where he spoke abt recording of one song from “AMEER GAREEB”. This song(Mere Pyale Mein..) is qawaali, Manna dey though he can dominate Kishore by some classical vocal and even Laxmikant from LP asked Kishore to follow manna dey. Kishore clearly told Laxmi that he will sing in different style, Laxmi did not like but what he could do, he just gone ahead with recording. Manna Dey and Laxmikant, both agreed that Kishore’s style of singing is better in the same song. Kishore steals the show completely.
This has been told by Manna Dey.
I mean to say there would not be any difference if Kishore would have followed Manna Dey in same style.
Genious creates own path, they don’t follow others path.
SUDIP…Manna Dey complaint RDB for not choosing him for “Chingari koi Bhadke” and “Ye kya hua”.. I am sure Manna dey could have sing this song with more classical touch. Pls. answer it with honesty, will this song reached to the same height where it is now…
My answer is “NO” and “NEVER”
January 29th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Manish,
Mere dost, I respect ur viewi. I don;t have any issue you admire Rafi. But what i don;t like you guys keep saying Rafi is greatest.
Do we really require to propel any great legends as greatest?
Kishore fans never bother abt greatness, they know who is great. I write many blog here to make you aware of real facts, i am sure you people already known but deny to accept.
Sudip..
u wrote
you mentioned abt dat tv show,, well dear ashu ji media is also hyping himmesh over jagjit singh, hariharan, ar rehman… does it mean himmesh is more popular??? every time hari haran’s & jagjit gazals comes silently & sells in a bulk,, more dan any of himmesh’s album,,
My reply:
i m very sad to know this. No media ever projected that Himesh is better than Jagjit. My dear friend, if himesh stay in music for next minimum 20 yrs, then we can talk abt him. Otherwise there is no point in talking abt him.
If you are comparing Himesh with Kishore, then i am very sorry to know abt taste of music. Media projecte him popular but not best singer, whereas kishore was project as good singer before 68, but people and media started comparing him with Rafi after “TUM bin Jaao kahan” song where Kishore completely surpassed Rafi. Even people started saying Kishore is better than Rafi. Is it the same case with Himesh?
Sudip,
My reply abt ur analyses on couple of Kishore and afi’s song.
First of all, If u r saying “Chingari was flat” then i must say pls. get some musical training. Talk to some genuine musician and ask abt this song and vocal artistry. My dear friend, one great thing abt kishore is, he made song looks very easy, but ask artist who sing this song. They will tell you how difficult it is to sing.
Here what u wrote:
2a) Woh shaam kuch ajeeb thi
2b) Hui shaam unka khayal aa gaya
2a is an excellent song, but again sung flat totally reliant on the golden voice that Kishore had. 2b goes beyond the vocal quality. The way Rafi modulates over “Khayal” in the antaras..
3a) Dil aaj shayar
3b) Kabhi khud pe
Both have similar pitch transitions.. But we see lot of classical variations in 3b..
Dil aaj Shayar, is one of the most difficult song. I have never seen somebody attempting this song. pitch and voice modulation is superb. Do you expect better range than this..Listen this line carefully.
“Leeeeeeekin lagaya hai jo daaaav hamne wo jeet kar aayenge hi”.
As you cleverly said, Kishore and Rafi approached were difficult. My dear friend, that is the real difference between them.
Give Rafis’ songs to any trained singer, he will execute those songs in same way(may be not 100%, but near to it), but same is not true in case of Kishore’ song.
That is what Kishore.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Even in 1974-1975, Rafi was NOT thrown into oblivion. He was always present on the charts. What amazes me is that his Saj Rahe Gali Ama from Kunwara Baap was #5 in 1975 - ahead of Kishore’s same song in the movie (which IMO was better). While Rafi’s singing part was beautiful - a lot of the song was errr trash. But it was immensely popular. People flocked for that kind of composition - it makes me wonder how average the musical values / trends were at that time. I do want to clarify myself: clearly Kishore was still a very successful singer in 1950s & 1960s (he had a #1 song in 1959) and had some immortal gems. But despite that- RELATIVE to Rafi - he wasn’t progressing. Kishore was great - but when you start comparing someone to Rafi - they don’t match up to the maestro.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Ashu,
Why did Rafi always sing for the non-hero? That’s not entirely true - he sang more songs & rendered more hits for Rishi Kapoor, Jeetendra, Vinod Khanna, and Dharmendra from 1970-1980. True - Kishore was the voice of Amitabh but Rafi had his hits too. Rafi could sing for non-heroes because his voice could very well suit just about anyone - Kishore’s trademark barritone could not. Rafi sang plenty for both heroes & non-heroes so I don’t see much validity to your point. It just shows his versatility for the many actors.
You cleverly sidestepped my question about the Binaca Geet Mala. See it for yourself - in 1980, 6 out of the top 10 are Rafi’s - including the #1 song from Sargam. On a monthly chart, in May of 1980, 16 out of the top 25 were Rafi’s! There’s no denying that Rafi was just as popular as Kishore (if not more) at that time.
Ashu - you talked about HKSKN again so I will address it for the last time. What Aradhana was to Kishore - Laila Maju was to Rafi. They both set the stage for the events to come. Laila Majnu was a musical blockbuster that marked Rafi’s grand “comeback”. My opinion is that Rafi was going to win the award in 1977 whether it was Kya Hua Tera Waada or the immensely popular Pardah Hai Pardah Hai.
Interestingly - Kishore was #1 on Binaca Geet Mala in 1959. Clearly he saw success in his singing career - he always wanted to be a singer first and actor second. He had his exposure to the public but it didn’t last as the top singer in that time. If he was to make it as a TOP singer in the 1960s - he should have been able to. But it wasn’t to be during that time. So yes he was busy on his acting career - but only because he wasn’t top singer in 1960s because the music styles were not in phase with his immense singing talent. Kishore was ready to pack his bags and leave in late 1960s - because he wasn’t making it as a singer.
No doubt Kishore was great. But Rafi was Rafi - beyond comparison!
January 29th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Ashu:
“If you really talking abt classical, then i prefer to listen Pt. bhisen Joshi and my fav. pt. Jasraj.
I listen lots of Hindi movies songs which means i am listening to playback singers, but my classical taste are different, and i meant it different from Playback.”
-VERY SENSIBLE COMMENT.. I personally do not fall in the category of fans who think Rafi was a great classical singer. Like you my classical tastes are different.
BUT… Rafi’s approach to singing itself was very CLASSICAL in nature…As opposed to Kishore whose approach was lighter. Let us take similar songs of similar moods/genre and comparable repute:
1 a) Chingari koi bhadke
1 b) Din dhal Jaye or Hum bekhudi mein
None of these are pure classical songs..The way Rafi approached 1b) was very different from the way 1a was delivered. The great thing about 1a was Kishore’s voice, but was delivered flat and full-throated-there is no vocal artistry about it. 1b had murkiyas and subtle touches that make them songs of the Classes.
2a) Woh shaam kuch ajeeb thi
2b) Hui shaam unka khayal aa gaya
2a is an excellent song, but again sung flat totally reliant on the golden voice that Kishore had. 2b goes beyond the vocal quality. The way Rafi modulates over “Khayal” in the antaras..
3a) Dil aaj shayar
3b) Kabhi khud pe
Both have similar pitch transitions.. But we see lot of classical variations in 3b..
Kishore’s voice was so bass dependent that it was not possible to bring these small undulations (murkiyas) into the delivery..
As Suresh Wadkar says in http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nsbhron1bNM about Rafi. There is something divine in the rendition..That is the classical part I would talk about..
January 29th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Ashu:
The link shows only the Binaca Geetmala topper. People here are talking about the top 10 songs..
You do not need to step out of this site to gauge Rafi’s popularity. The very fact there are tons of people trying to convince you (the only surviving member of the pro-KK) is a testimony of the fact..And bear in mind for the last 10 posts people have not moved out of the “post-1969″. That itself kicks of a healthy debate..If we start bringing Rafi’s golden years into the equation, have you thought what the final (in)equation will look like?
The Sony program that you mentioned is a good one, albeit a frivolous program suited to Kishore’s entertaining “happy-go-lucky” persona.. We can similarly have “P is for Pancham” or “S for Sonu”…There is a certain “gravitas” about Rafi and Lata that everyone (including KK fans) are aware of.. That gravitas, that respect, do not lend themselves to “L is for Lata” or “R is for Rafi” type of programs. “Lata JI” and “Rafi SAAB’s” names are better associated with bigger things..
January 28th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
ashu ji,,
for me rafi sahab was gr8st playback singer wd excellent classical vocal skills,, he was well trained under the bade gulam ali khan saab,, accn to me he was nice classical singer too,, he was trained under patiala gharana gayaki,, and juss look out how amazingly & melodiously he utilised it,,,,,,, songs like “man tarpat” “madhuban mein radhika” becoming most preferable bandishes in music schools of 2day…
bade gulam ali khan once said that “guru gud ka gud reh gya aur chela mishri ban k nikal gya”
im glad to know that you like pt.jasraj,, hope dat you know abt his high regards for rafi sahab & naushad ji..
you mentioned abt dat tv show,, well dear ashu ji media is also hyping himmesh over jagjit singh, hariharan, ar rehman… does it mean himmesh is more popular??? every time hari haran’s & jagjit gazals comes silently & sells in a bulk,, more dan any of himmesh’s album,,
media is also hyping western dance based shows(jhalak, nach baliye & all dat stuff),, does it mean dat classical dance is nowhere?? everybody know dat how much respect & attention indian classical dancers are getting world wide,, yaha k western dancers ko kon poochta hai bahar??…
my point is simple,, media cant alwys b rite….
naushad ji once said that his songs sell anually for a crore or more,, now tell me who was d leading playback singer under naushad’s music direction???
my meter of measuing popularity is class & mass appeal of an artist…
rafi sahab is dominating all d way(among d playback singers ),,, among d crores of classical music lovers & true classes,,,now among d masses both r popular(may b rafi sahab leading here also)…
ashu ji , i think u ignoring d facts as u seems 2 b very much in lv wd kk’s voice… but i like kk very much coz of his artistic skills..
aaj kal k comedians double meaining dialogs se hasate hain mgr kishore da apne humour se hasate the… half ticket is supeb example of his gr8 comic timing…
ashu sir,, in terms of singing sab jaante hain ki rafi sahab jaisa doosra koi aaya nahi hai ab tak,, lagbhag sabhi guni kalakaro k yehi raye hai…
even kk many times accepted rafi sahab’s superiorty ovr him,, kk was die hard sehgal fan & rafian as well(jaisa ki industry k log kehte hain)…
i think rafi sahab was far more gr8 & far more divine frm any of his comtemps….
January 28th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
My dera friend Sudip,
Which chartbuster you are talking abt? If you are considering Binaca GeetMa, then i must tell you in 70 or 71 (not sure abt year), five kishore’s songs was there in top six songs, sixth one was from Naya Zamana (sung by Lata)
I don’t understand one thing why you guys become abusive if somebody don’t have similar taste as you. Manoj kumar is fond of Mukesh and MK, it doesn’t mean Rafi was lesser to Mukesh and MK…Pls. don’t get abusive and learn to respect others like or come back with proper analysis.
Abt “Abhimaan”, Rafi never toned down. I feel he sung this song as good as Lata. And why should i go with Youtube, i know people construct or manipulate story as per their like and dislike. So i always go with my instinct.
Sudip,
FYI Dharam Veer released after HKSKN, so Rafi came in the imelight after HKSKM and AAA, not Dharam veer. Kishore sang one song with Lata in Dharam veer. You will surprised to know that that song became chartbuster for year.
“Hum Banzaron ki baat mat puchho ji”…Superb Song, and Great Composition.
On LP and Rafi Combo, LP was only musician who maintained a great balance between Rafi and Kishore in 70s. I feel “Samjhouta ghamo se kar lo” is more catchy and better composed than “Badi dur se aaye hai”. I personally like Kishore’s version.
Did you guys anlayse one thing?
Why most of the non hero songs went to Rafi, which was not the case in 60s
Songs are :-
- Deewane hai deewane ko …Zanjeer
- Ruthe rub ko mana aasan hai ….Majboor
- Badi dooe se aaye hai….Samjouta
- one song from Kunwara Baap
and many more…
January 28th, 2008 at 11:48 am
My dear friend Manish,
Here is list of topmost songs in Binaca Geet Mala:
http://www.bollywoodsoundtracks.com/html/binacageetmala.htm
January 28th, 2008 at 9:42 am
My dear friend Manish,
Can you send all songs from Binaca from 75 onwards? I have question for you..If there are so many hits why Rafi managed to win 1 award (thanks to RDB).
Though 70s was completely swing with Kishore wave, Mukesh managed to beg 2 filmfare award. Here is details for you:
———————————————————-
1980 – Yesudas(Dada), 1979 – Kishore(Don), 1978 – Rafi(HKSKN),1977 - Mukesh (Kabhi Kabhi), 1976 – Kishore(Amanush), 1975 – Mahendra Kapoor(Roti Kapda aur Makaan), 1974 – Narendra Chanchal(Bobby), 1973 – Mukesh (Be-imann), 1972 – Manna Dey(Mera naam joker), 1970 – Kishore(Aradhana)
————————————————–
This is correct data…
January 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Mr. xxx
I respect ur view from bottom of my heart. I never considered Rafi ias classical singer, he was playback and people know him as playback singer not as classical singer.
If you really talking abt classical, then i prefer to listen Pt. bhisen Joshi and my fav. pt. Jasraj.
I listen lots of Hindi movies songs which means i am listening to playback singers, but my classical taste are different, and i meant it different from Playback.
I am really surprised to read you rafians exaggerated Rafi’s worldwide popularity. Is he only famous? My dear rafians, He is among few who are worldwide popular includes Kishore, sitting ontop of list.
My dear friends, How can you measure popularity?
My anlasyses on measuring popularity …
Kishore left us 20 yrs. ago, and recently sony started program on him (not talking abt quality of program). Now i will not surprise to see any new musical program on Rafi. And FYI, this program is not started by any kishore fans or his relative. It started by entertainment media who want to make money on behalf of me. Do you need any other proof for pupularity?