An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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January 24th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Sorry Vikram,
I could not read ur blog, because it is too big and i don’t have time to read. I will read if u get some spare time.
Deepak,
My dear friend, I visited KISHORE’s house in Juhu, KiSHORE KUMAR GANGULY MARG. It has only K L Saigal photo and Dev Anand. He did not have Rafi photo though he admired Rafi. (false information spread by few Rafians)
YOu are right, he alwayd recommended Rafi as alternative for him. You know, Kishore always show his incompetency (in Joyous mood ) that he is not able to sing phalana phalana song. There are 2 examples
- Sachhai chhup nahi sakti from “Dushaman”
- Haal kya hai dilo ka na pochho sanam
He asked LP to call Rafi for these 2 songs, but LP knew that only KISHORE could do justice to these songs and rest are history.
Manish Kumar, My dear friend, Rafi was alwys there. Nobody came back to him after 76. he was very much active from 70 to 76. But i must say he again come in the limelight after winning national award for HKSKN and nomination for AAA movies. But history witness that he never regain his position. You can write and say whatever you feel, but it will not chnage the history.
FYI, Not only I heard Laila Majnu songs but also i watched the movie, they are definetely good songs but i can’t hear them more than once. Whereas i can hear “Chand mera dil”,”Maine poocha chand se”, “Parda hai parda”,”Dard-e-dil” infinite times of 70s.
There are many “PADAMSHREE”s who doesnot deserve. There was a program on NDTV last week on Bharat Ratna. Many deserving people denied this award in past. Mere dost, “PADAMSHREE”,”PADAM VIBHUSHAN” and “BHARAT RATNA”, If you remember RAMVILAS PAWAN (dirty politician-play caste and minority politics) recommneded TATYA TOPE, RAFI and one more name(i forgot) for BHARAT RATNA. You know why he recommended these 3 names because all belongs to either SC,ST or minority.
I always believe in award which masses and classes approve. After 27 years since he past, peolple like you and me are talking abt him and kishore (20 years since past) is real award.
My dear friend, Sanjeev Kumar was more versatile actor than Amitabh. He performed almost all character during his acting career. He (SK) is famous no doubt, but AMITABH is AMITABH, same for KISHORE.
January 24th, 2008 at 1:54 am
As a Kishore fan I must to say that Rafi Saab had a clear,expression ,silky smooth voice which was suited to Lata Rafi.However Kishore had a mid range maste type of voice which suited high energy type of singing (Asha suited)and sometimes really excelled at sad songs .Rafi was more classically trained flexible voice.Even Kishore da looked up to Rafi Saab who contributed 26,000 songs to Hindi Film Song Industry.Kishore saab had to two photographs of Rafi Saab and Saigal saab in his sitting room…and often in the 1970`s he use to call Rafi himself or suggested to the music director as a better alternative to him sing that particular song..
January 24th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Sorry guys for my last long post. I will try to keep it short next time.
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
mr.ashu,,
rafi sahab was versatile genious & kk was not even 10% of rafi sahab,, it was rdb’s gr8 music that brought up kk as a singer…
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Ashu,
I am also not a bengali, but I know that there are so many bengali tunes that SD Burman gave to Rafi for their hindi version. Kishore Kumar was an active singer during those times. If the bangla version of the song “Gunguna rahe hain” was recorded after Aradhana, then I apologise for my previous post. If that’s the case then I am sure it was not because KK was a better singer than Rafi, but because Kishore was born and brought up a bengali, and would have understood the nuances of the language far better than Rafi. How many Punjabi songs did Kishore sing? Rafi sang a lot of them. For the same reason Kishore sang so many bangla songs.
What do you mean by multifaceted? If you are referring to KK’s acting abilities, then there is no point in discussing music. Thank God, he mostly stuck to singing. As a singer he was great. No doubt about that. I have the highest regards for his singing. as far as acting is concerned, he was below average. Here I have no qualms about using the word ‘third rate’. Joy Mukherjee, Bishwajeet, Pradeep Kumar and others may not have been great actors, nonetheless were very populr and ofcourse better than kishore. You know why? Because of one and only one Rafi. Kishore Kumar has sung for more third rate actors. He has also sung more trash than any other singer. I have seen some of KK’s movies. To tell you the truth, I could not get past the first ten minutes. But, that does not take away the shine from his singing capabilities.
If your reference was to him being a multifaceted singer, then I disagree totally. It was Rafi alone who could be categorised as a multifaceted singer. Look at his repertoire! Ghazals, Semi-Classical, Classical, Fast songs, sad songs, Quawali’s, Bhajans and Patriotic songs. This is the definition of a multifaceted singer. Rafi did full justice to all these categories. I am sorry to say that Kishore Kumar does not belong to some of them. He has given us some great gems, but when pitted against the variety, quality and quantity that Rafi offered, Kishore comes second best. Now that’s what I call experimentation. Rafi challenged his vocals to sing songs from different genres. He sang Manna Dey type songs better than him. Manna agrees. look at the man’s greatness! He rendered Kishore and Mukesh style songs with ease. Nitin Mukesh said in an interview that Mukesh once told him that among his contemporaries there was nobody like Rafi. He was known to mould his voice as the situation warranted. He was the one for all occassions. He adjusted his voice according to the actor’s on whom a particular song was being picturised.
As far as the title goes——-multifaceted is definitely not a title. Dear Ashu, Rafi sahab received a Silver medal from the then Prime Minister Nehru as early as 1948. That time he was a new comer. In 1965 he was conferred PADAMSHRI by the Govrnment of India. After that he became Padamshri Mohd. Rafi. It’s another story that he deserves much more. This is what a title is! Was Kishore kumar ever conferred any title by the Government? Not that I know of. Again, awards should not be a parameter to measure one’s greatness. I had to mention it because you asked me about it.
I would like to refer to the songs that you mentioned in your last post. kishore and Rafi Have both done a fabulous job. Since I am vouching for Rafi, it’s but natural that I would say that rafi sounds better in all these songs. You, on the other hand are all for Kisore. So for you kishore will sound better. This question should better be left to somebody like Dhani Ram, Sudip or Mr. haldar.
As far as Asha Bhonsle goes. She was a sore loser. She and lata new it that as long as Rafi was around, they would not be able to sustain themselves at the top. They started playing politics with him. They were both decimated by rafi in the duets that he sang with them. Asha is a very selfish singer. It was OP nayyar who made what she is today. When she fell out with him for her second love in RD Burman, she gave all the credit to him. Whatever Asha says about Rafi is all nonsense. She is a horrible person. She even ditched RD in his last days. What a joke! Rafi could not get the nuances of the song “AaJa Aaja”. Asha says so. Listen to the song carefully. Asha sounds vulgar. She overdid it. Rafi was just perfect. What does it matter anyway. This song is identified with Rafi. No matter whoever you bring into picture, Kishore just can not compete with Rafi.
Somebody asked rajesh Roshan about the degrading music quality. You probaly know what he said, but then you don’t want to share the truth. His answer was that since there is no Rafi, it’s very hard to create good music.
Kishore Kumar was Bhappi Lahiri’s mama. Do I need to add more. Although it does not matter as he as I said earlier is amongst the worst of worsts music directors. He is a good human being though. Yes, RD was good and indeed made good use of Kishore kumar.
Rafi not being the voice of Dilip Kumar! Ashu are you out of your mind? It’s like saying that Mukesh never sang for Raj kapoor and for that matter Kisore kumar never did playback for Rajesh Khanna. You should research your thoughts before they take the shape of the words. Recently Dev Anand said in one of his interviews that his best songs came from Rafi, and he indeed is indebted to him. That does not make Kishore Kumar a bad singer. All I wanted to convey through this post was that what others say about one’s abilities does not really matter. if somebody is good majority of the people will like him or her.
In the heat of the moment we are forgetting Mukesh, Manna Dey Mahender Kapoor and other stalwarts. we sould also be grateful to them for what they have given us.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Ashu,
You and I differ on too many points. Some things you claim fact to me see easily disprovable with data e.g. charts. I think it is laughable you fail to mention SJ who easily used Rafi the most, just as RDB did. It wasn’t about preference. SD Burman regarded Rafi the best singer - he stated this in an interview in the 70s (during the peak Kishore wave). He said something to the effect, “Aradhana may have marked by comeback but my pride and joy was Guide. For that movie I had my 2 best singers - Rafi & Lata”. Roshan, Chitragupta, Ravi, SJ, LP, OP Nayyar, Madan Mohan, Naushad, Husnlal Bhaghatram, Usha Khanna, , Shankar Jaikishan - they preferred Kishore Kumar.
Bappi Lahiri - hahaahahaha! what a joke - no one cares about Bappi - he doesn’t stand next composing greats like Madan Mohan and Shankar Jaikishan. You obviously know little about music if you think Rafi only had a few hit songs in the 1980s. Look at the charts from 1977-1980, look at Rafi’s output in that period - more than Kishore’s. It is laughable that you fail to acknowledge Madan Mohan who started things in 1976 with blockbuster Laila Majnu. I doubt you’ve even heard them!
In any case - these arguments are pointless. Let the music decide. When upcoming generations hear Rafi - the music itself will make it clear who was the best of the best. Your revisionist theories will be of no avail. Case in point - you talk about that single Kishore song in Caravan being more popular in 1971 - no one remembers that today yet the three excellent Rafi duets are still popular to this day. Of course you knew that that is why you convenient mentioned “in 1971″. It was the Kishore wave - THANKS to Rafi. Rafi had ruled for 20yrs people needed a break so they tuned to Kishore. 6 yrs later they come back to Mohd Rafi - the best! You CAN’T change the facts - see the charts to see who was number 1!
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Are Bewaqoofon…… Listen Rafi Saab’s “Tarif Karoon Kya Uski Jisne Tumhe Banaya” only. He repeated 17 times these words in the song and each and every times his modulations are different……… Haa Modulation Ki Baat Karte Hain Bewaqoof…. wasty……
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:03 am
Vikram…
Do you know Bengali song recorded later to Hindi version? SD did not replace Kishore, but he replace Rafi.
Note: I was not talking abt replacement in my earlier blog, i was talking abt who sounds good. But you forced me to write so. I am not bengali, not even understand bengali but when i heard his version, it sound better than hindi. There was another song sung by Kishore in Bengali, and same song sung by Bappi Lahiri in “Satyamev Jayte”. Bengali was more popular and 100% times better than Bappi, does it mean Bappi replaced Kishore.
Don’t write as per ur convenience.
Dear vikram
You wrote:
There are so many great Kishore songs that you could have referred to. Rafi would have sung these songs in his sleep. In one of the songs Kishore Kumar sounds very unconvincing when he does the female voice over. I have gone through all your posts. At times you sound confused. One moment you say that we should not compare their individual songs, the very next moment you are saying that Rafi would not have been able to sing this or that Kishore Kumar song. In absence of coherence in your thoughts, it becomes difficult to analyse them
My reply:
My dear friend, I am not confused. I am answering ur doubt. I never compare singers because i believe everyone has their own charm. I would not like to listen if any singer sing KISHORE’s song. Not only his songs but also his each and every harkat i know which noone can match. Same i can say in favor of Rafi. So i am very much sure what i am writing.
What rafi would have done in his sleep, only he would have known. Even you can sing better than Rafi, you can act better than Amitabh in your sleep. Noone can stop you:)
Again.. You can’t compare singers based on their indivisual songs. If you really want to compare singer than take one or two songs which sung by both.
For e.g.
- TUM bin Jaaooo kaha
- HUM Premi prem karna jaane
- HUMKO tumse ho gaya hai pyar
- KYA mousam hai
(This is the song where i switched my fav. from Rafi to Kishore when i was 10 yrs. old. I must say Rafi is still my second fav.)
Kishore had guts to experiment, rafi was always stick to himself. That’s why people said Kishore was “a man of many parts” or “multifaceted. I don’t remember any title for RAFI. Let me know if you know anything.
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Dear Anonymous,
I differ from you view.
I belive “Che khush Nazare” is not executed properly. His voice is very very thin when he sang “antara”, you have rights to differ.
I appreciate that you have little knowledge abt 70s era. It is history that Rafi did not regain his postion after 70’s. Nobody can change it
Here is my reply for rafi’s popularity after 76…
There is no doubt that Rafi bounced back well in 76, credit goes to RDB and LP. He bounce back, but did not regain his position.
People started talking abt rafi after 76-77, because he got national award for HKSKN and nominated for Amar Akbar Anthony. He was holding top position till late 60s, and suddenly he lost his position in 70s and again he come back in 76 with 2 great songs followed many due to which people started talking abt him again.
Can you forget songs from “Teen Deviyan”,”Door Gagan ki Chhaoon me”, “Paying Guest”, “Jewel Thief” and many more. These songs were equally hit and greately sung by Kishore during 60s. Since Rafi was on top that time people don’t talk abt that song. Since Rafi was on his lower and he bounced back in 76, so people started consoling themselve by saying Rafi regain #1 position which is completely false.
Dear friend, Rafi was alive till 80s and i know how many filmfare award he got. FYI He was nominated for “Parda Hai Parda”. He did not get award, even kishore got nomination for “AMAR PREM” but he did not get.
I always get annoyed when people like you write some nonsense thing abt RDB. Kishore was RDB’s personal fav as Rafi was personal fav. for Naushad. RDb used Rafi intelligently, and he kept giving him work though Rafi lost his market value.
- RDB asked Rafi to sing “Yadoon Ki Baarat”
*** don’t say Nasir asked RDB to use Rafi.
- RDb used Rafi for rajesh Khanna “Kahe ko bulaya mujhe baar baar”
***don’t say this is most complex song and only Rafi could have sung
- RDB used Rafi for “Maine puchha chaand se”
***don’t say this is most complex song and only Rafi could have sung
Do you know…Kishore sang only one song in “CARAVAN” whereas Rafi sang all songs. In 71, Kishore song in “CARAVAN” was most popular than other songs in the film.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:46 am
Its amazing for me, rafi fans regulary visit kk site & give their comments & opinion, because they rafi fans but also like kk, they just give their opinion in mannerful langauage.
I am rafian, its very rare to see comment of any kk fan on rafi website. most of worst article & meaningless
In my opinion around 90% rafian visit kk & other singers website but, kk fans behave like frog in well.
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi Rafi ‘’Are namhi kitna suhana hai fir kis batki bhes chodo yar chalo koi gan
sunte hai'’ Tere mere sapne ab eak rang hai jahan bhi le jae rahe hum sang hai'’
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
‘’Koi kuchbhi khe Rafi to Rafi hai ‘’ ‘’ Na fankar tujhsa tere bad aaya mohd.
Rafi tu bahot yad aaya'’
Kishor eak ache singer the par Rafi sahb ke sath unki tulna it is rong
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
RAFI IS KING OF SINGIRS ‘’ Use nagmoki ja ahle nazar yu hi nahi khte ‘’
kishor kumar is very best singar but not as commpiur to Rafi sahab
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:24 pm
RAFI IS GRATE SIGER HI IS KING OF SINGERS I LOVE RAFI
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Ashu,
Why did S D Burman replace Kishore with Rafi for the hindi version of the song “Gunguna Rahe hain”, even though he stuck with Asha as the female voice? The question that you raised is an answer in itself. You have inadvertently proven that there is no way Kishore Kumar would have sounded better than Rafi in this song. S D Burman was a master at choosing his singers. He knew their strengths and weaknesses. He used Kishore Kumar very well in some of his compositions. But, the music that he created with Rafi was divine. That’s what he is mostly remembered for. He was way ahead of his son in musical sense. He considered Rafi to be his first serve. Dada Burman told Kishore Kumar during the recording of the songs for the movie “The Guide” that he loved him (KK) a lot but he (KK) could not sing better than Rafi.
As far as Kalyanji-Anandji combine is concerened, I think they never had a preference for any singer. Mukesh, it would seem was vastly used by them to great effect. Kishore Kumar did sing some chartbusters for them. They made it big with “Jab Jab Phool Khile”. Until this film happened , they were widely popular, but not in the same league as Shankar-Jaikishen, SD Burman or OP Nayyar. It was Rafi who did the honours here. Anandji was of the opinion that Rafi indeed was the most versatile and technically perfect singer.
I was surprised by your choice of songs that you mentioned for comparision with Rafi. There are so many great Kishore songs that you could have referred to. Rafi would have sung these songs in his sleep. In one of the songs Kishore Kumar sounds very unconvincing when he does the female voice over. I have gone through all your posts. At times you sound confused. One moment you say that we should not compare their individual songs, the very next moment you are saying that Rafi would not have been able to sing this or that Kishore Kumar song. In absence of coherence in your thoughts, it becomes difficult to analyse them.
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Vikram,
Thwarted view. I am really disappointed abt reading ur article.
He was voice of Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh in particular. There is no doubt that Rafi also sang for these actors, because they both belongs to same era. My dear friend, even Sonu Nigam and Udit narayan sang for Amitabh, and u will surpeise to know it is not one song but more than one. Do you know why, because they are running(current) singers and the same happened during that time.
Kishore was never exclusive for particular actor
Md. Rafi was only voice for Shammi, Johny walker and other 3rd class actors like Joy Mukhrajee, Pradeep Kumar, BHarat Bhushan. He was never voice of Dilip Kumar. Talat Mehmood was first voice for Dilip Kumar. During 60s, Rafi was on top and so he become voice for all leading actors. Same like kishore for 70’s and 80’s actors. For e.g. Sanjay Dutt, Anil Kapoor, Govinda, Mithun, Vikram and many…
You asked me how many MDs prefer Kishore. There are many names like
- RDB
- KA
- Bappi Lahiri
- Rajesh Roshan
Above names which i mentioned were 100% fond (they are biased) of Kishore. In case of Rafi, i could remember only 3 name who are 100% fond of Rafi…They are..
- Nausad
- O P Nayyar
- Madan Mohan
If you read carefully i mention 100% (they are biased toward 1 singers). In above list, I did not mention SJ, SDB,LP, KHYAAM, becaue they might have personal fav, but they are not biased in offering songs to particular singer.
I am really pitty on ur knowledge that Rafi promoted RDB in Teesari Manzil. Its really funny.
Rafi was selected as singer because he was voice of Shammi, and my dear friend if you have seen/heard Nazir Hussain interview where he mentioned about the bet he had with RDB. RDB said ASHA will sung better than Rafi and Nazir differ that, and at the end Nazir lost the bet by paying 100 rs. to RBD, because ASHA totally eclipsed Rafi. Song was “AAJA AAJA main hu Pyaar Tera”.
Note: This has been told by Asha herself and Nazir hussain.
It doesn’t mean Rafi was lesser than ASHA, but i must say this song was not his cup of tea.
About National award. Rafi fan should be greatful to RDB becuase Rafi got national award for HUM KISI SE KAM NAHI…
Finally Let me correct you. “Parda hai Parda” composed by LP not RDB.
Vikram, I have one question for you.
Why not RDB asked RAFI to sing following songs..These are not simplest songs
- O Maanjhi RE, Apna Kinara Nadiya ki dhaara hai (Kishore)
- EK Chatur naar (Manna Dey version)
- Chingari koi bhadke (Kishore)
- Duniya mein ha ah ah Logon ko (RDB version)
and Many more
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Ashu, I can not imagine even in my wildest dreams any singer other than Rafi doing justice to a song like “Man Re Tu Kahe na Dheer Dhare”. It’s another point that Kishore Kumar should be commended for his tribute to Rafi Sahab. By the way this song was declared as the song of the millennium, not by Rafi fans, but by a jury that included lots and lots of diehard Kishore fans.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Ashu,
You forgot to mention “Parda Hai parda” and “Maine Poocchha Chaand Se”. I was talking about songs like this. They were not Kishore’s cup of tea. No doubt about that. You mentioned Rajender Kumar. How many times did MD’s use KK for him? You can count it on your finger tips. In fact, Rafi was used regularly for Rajesh Khanna. I can easily list twenty songs of Rafi picturised on Rajesh Khanna. He was used on Amitabh even more. Kishore Kumar was never exclusive to a particular actor. Look at Rafi! He was exclusive to Rajinder Kumar, Dilip Kumar, Biswajeet, Raaj Kumar, Shammi Kapoor and Joy Mukherjee, Bharat Bhusan and Pradeep Kumar.
For your information, if you are leaving in some other world-Rafi did playback for Kishore Kumar- not once, not twice, not thrice but eleven times. Eleven times! Can you imagine Udit Narayan singing for Sonu Nigam? Now this is called versatility. Like it or not, Rafi was simply matchless. You know it in your heart of hearts Ashu that there are more Kishore Kumar songs that are picturesed on third rate actors. Let me tell you that it does not make any difference. A good song is a good song. Looks like your overzealousness against Rafi will take you to any level.
You also mentioned about MD’s fondness for singers. How many MD’s preferred KK? Not many. Rafi has sung for the most number of MD’s. All the greats like Shankar-Jaikishan, Roshan, Laxmikant-Pyarelal, Naushad, S D Burman, Madan Mohan, O P Nayyar always preferred Rafi. It was not because they liked him, but because he could sing just about anything. On the other hand Kishore was the first choice of RD Burman and Bhappi Lahiri. RD was good, but not great. Most of his hit tunes were lifted from other sources. And Bhappi Lahiri. Less said the better. He is among the worst music directors that we have had, if not the worst. Kishore was definitely a great singer, but not the best.
RD Burman was part of a cabal that was planning Rafi’s ouster from the industry. You know the other members of this cabal. He was a thankless guy. It was Rafi who brought him into big league with films like Teesri Manzil and Baharoan Ke Sapane. He went back to Rafi when his magic started to wane away in the late 70’s. In fact, his fans should be grateful to Rafi that he brought him a national award. Ashu do you know if Kishore-RD combine ever win a national award?
January 22nd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Dear Sudip,
Reply to ur few previous blog:
First of all Manna Dey never comment on who is great, Kishore or Rafi. I have seen/read almost all his interview and i also published Manna Dey interview where he spoke abt Kishore and Rafi in Rafi’s website. He might have his spersonal favorite but he intelligently maintained balance between both.
There is one song in Aradhana..
“Gun Gun raha hai bhanware khil rahi hai kali kali”, sung by Rafi and Asha. Same song sung by Kishore and Asha in Aradhana Bengali version.Not only me but also there are genuine Rafi fans who accepted that Kishore’s version is much bettern than Rafi.
Note: I would like to clear one thing here, i am not here to prove who is great here but i must say i am more inclined toward KISHORE.
Pls. listen this song as good listner not as Kishore or Rafi fan and send ur comment.
Is there any match for following song? Do you expect Rafi giving justice to these songs?
1. Pyaar hame kis mod pe le aaya
(Listen this song again an dlisten Kishore carefully)
2. Aake sidhi lagi jaise dil pe kataria
3. Tu aauro ki kyon ho gayi
My dear friend, you cann’t take their indivisual songs for comparison. They all are unique and beyond comparison.
I have a recording of Kishore’s concert where he remembered Rafi on his demise, This concert was held in Khandawa and he started the show with “Man re tu kaahe na dheer dhare”, one of the fabulous song sung by Rafi.
Kishore had done great justic to this song without any music instrument. Pls. listen this song as music listener, not as Rafi fan
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 am
sorry - i got interrupted in the last post: only rafi could have sung that AND done FULL justice to the song. else you’d need bhupinder for the alaap and then kishore - which wouldn’t sound as good imo.
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:47 am
Ashuji:
Pyare phrased his response “rafi is just ahead of kishore” because if he just said rafi, he would be failing to acknowledge kk’s tremendous contributions to lp. he also knew it was a hot topic and if he didn’t respond evenly and just overlook kk – it would upset a lot of people (including me, a rafian). In terms of favorite singer – just as there is no question kishore was rdb’s favorite – rafi was lp’s favorite.
Second point with regards to rafi’s comeback. RDB used rafi in HKKN because producer Nasir Hussain made sure Rafi got songs in his movie. If RDB used Rafi for Nasir Hussain movies or movies in 60s – it is because indeed, he was forced to. If RDB used Rafi for Aandhi – it was to promote KK over Rafi by giving KK the best compositions and giving Rafi an average tune “Salam Kijiye”. The latter isn’t a song worth much talk (except for RDB’s motives) but I gather you haven’t heard it in a long time. RDB makes Rafi go to a very high pitch in that song (not really necessarily, almost to make fun of Rafi’s ability or to falsely show that they aren’t needed) when he sings “Hisaab Kijye” and no one but rafi could have gone to that scale and came down so quickly. Pyar Ka Mausam is another example. RDB gives Rafi an awful “tune” “Che Kush Nazare” and then has the “Tum Bin Jaaon Kahan fiasco”. That song was Bengali hit in Kishore’s voice years before so RDB knew he was on safe ground. He composes it to make Kishore look his best (yodeling) and takes out yodeling in Rafi’s “plain mandolin” composition (not that I care for a contest of yodeling as it is silly when we’re talking about singing) and the composition doesn’t require rafi sahab’s full abilities like “tere mere sapne” would. Very clever by rdb and people fall for it. Even then, a lot of people like the rafi version better but that movie was another attempt by rdb to make kk look better than rafi. Not to mention – rdb conveniently makes sure the clearly superior sad version by rafi is not in the lp.
i’ll bet Rafi would have won FilmFare / National Award in 1977 for another song how about “pardah hai pardah” which was uber popular - even if RDB didn’t give him “Kya Hua Tera Wada”. It is rdb who wouldn’t have gotten the filmfare so rdb should be grateful to rafi. 1977 was the Rafi wave – he had the #2 & #3 top songs (among others). #1 being Lata’s song from Laila Majnu. Rafi’s comeback is responsible by (1) Madan Mohan. It was Laila Majnu in 1976 that had Rafi dominating charts – it was a HUGE musical blockbuster. It set everything else in motion (sort of like Aradhana in 1969). Nasir hussain, manmohan desai, lp, madan mohan –these guys deserve the credit. Rdb was lucky to win the award. The public got tired of hearing rafi for 20yrs in 1969 – they got tired of kishore wave and wanted rafi back by then. Btw – kya hua tera wada was an easy song to sing but only rafi could have expressed emotions in that song the way he did – which made it special.
So if rdb wasn’t using rafi (1) because he was forced (2) to make rafi look average with average / outdated tunes, it was the occasional whim where yes he wanted rafi but this is infrequent. Of course, rdb always knew of rafi’s greatness – but he was on the campaign to promote his friend kk over rafi at any cost.
January 21st, 2008 at 9:40 am
I read all above comments. Few people got great sense of music and admiration toward great singers like Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh, but i dissappointed with few people’s comments.
Here i would like to reply Vikram for his blog…
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Vikram wrote:
Laxmikant-Pyarelal have always been of the opinion that when it comes to singing there is nobody bigger than Rafi. At the same time they never despised Kishore kumar. In fact, they used him for some of their great compositions. That’s what Rafi fans are like.
My reply:
LP were great fond of Rafi and Lata because Rafi and Lata sang for LP in their low time and they supported them at great extent during 60’s. And Pyare always shown his fondness for Kishore in his interview. He has great respect for Kishore. In one of his interview, one guy asked him who is his best singer, in replied he said “Rafi just ahead of KISHORE…”. My friend he could have easily mentioned Rafi and moved to the next question, but he didnot do that. Because he has immense respect for both.
Vikram wrote:
According to you RD used RAFI when there is no other option, If it is true then listed songs below are most difficult songs composed by RD 
Now compare this with R D Burman. He only used Rafi when he had no other option
My reply:
Great line to laugh
1. Kya hua Tera wada
2. Bottle se ek baat chali hai
3. one song from Aandhi and many more…
My dear friend Vikram, ask anyone who has little knowledge abt music abt above 3 songs. All songs are simplest songs, anybody can sing.
Here is my analysis on above songs
1. Hum kissi se kam nahi was multi starrer movie and Rafi voice was best suited to Taariq (Rafi got national award…Rafi again bounced back in industry. Rafi fan should be thanksful to RD)
2. Song from Ghar. Picturised on Extras
3. Song from Aandhi. Picturised on Extras
All songs are simplest. Please don’t write things as per your convenience.
I would like to mention one thing here.
Kishore sang for Rajendra Kumar “Tumko bhi to aisa hi kuchh hota hoga” along with LATA under LP, though all songs were sung by RAFI. Does it mean Rafi was not able to sing this song?
No my dear friend, It is all upto MD’s fondness and confidence abt their singers.
RD,KA clearly said in all his interview that there is no match for Kishore. LP maintained balance between Kishore and Rafi.
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Kishore and Rafi, both were legend and there is no match for them
January 20th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Isn’t it amazing and greatest gift to India that we witnessed greatest singers of all times in almost same era??? Then why we are debating??
It’s like this : “Is Brahma bigger than Vishnu?” or “Is Shankar Bigger than Krishna and Indra?”
See what god has betowed our great country with in same era:
1) Rafi
2) Kishore
3) Mukesh
4) Manna De
5) Heman Kumar
6) Talat Mehmud
7) Lata Did
8) Geeta Dutt
9) Asha Bhonsale
10) Suman Kalyanpur
11) Shamshad Begam
All these giants make music complete!! God gifted them with his love!!! Why we try to judge “whom God loved more?”!!
January 20th, 2008 at 11:55 am
This is an endless debate. Those who love Rafi will always want to rate Rafi ahead of Kishore and Kishore Da’s lovers will never want to rate any other singer above them..
The reality is “Both were great friends”! They used to love each other’s voice and style. I remember that Kishore Da always used to start his stage programs and concerts with Rafi’s song and Amit Kumar too is following that tradition even today. Such is the respect for Rafi and love in Kishore Da’s family! Same was there in Rafi’s family too for Kishore da!!
You can list 100s of songs of each of these singers including Amit Kumar and can debate to eternity who is better!!!
O.P. Nayyar once said about Amit Kumar that his voice has more ‘gamak’ (word used for subtance with great modulation) than even Kishore Da!!
Today since both Kishore and Rafi are not with us, so let’s give them their due respect and space! Let’s not compare apple and orange!! Indian film music will never be complete without naming any of these!!
I love both Kishore and Rafi very very much and AMit Kumar too!!! Amit Kumar was little under used singer in 80s and 90s. but he is singing more now at age of 55!!!! Le’ts wish him well!!
January 20th, 2008 at 12:53 am
K.C.De was Manna De’s uncle.Manna had come to Bombay on K.C.’s call.As a music director,KC did his utmost to promote Manna.But he gave one song to Rafi to sing.Manna was annoyed and upset with his uncle for preferring Rafi.But Manna later gracefully admitted that the song with classical base was sung much better by Rafi than he himself could have done.That was Rafi’s greatness as a singer.
Sudip,I salute you for your knowledge of music.