An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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November 24th, 2007 at 2:49 am
Dear All.
U all are comaparing Rafi Saab with Kishore da……….Rafi fans says Rafi is great……….Kishore fans says Kishore is great.
Lata is best female singer & Rafi is best male singer of MILLIENIUN. That award gave by three institutions.
But, Rafi Saab No. 1 among all male-female singers….just compare few songs sung by Rafi & Late separatle….& Rafi sung best
1. Tum mujhe yun bhula na paoge
2. O mere shahekhuban
3. Ahesan tera hoga
4. Teri ankhon ke siva
5. Gar tum bhula na doge
6. Aji humse bachkar
7.Jindagi bar nahi bhiilegi
8. Aaj kal mein dhal gaya.
Even Lata told to Amin Sayani in year 2005 on Radio…She was unable to sing Tum mughe yun bhula paoge, compose by Jaikishan….then first this song recorded in voice of Rafi Saab & then lata…
same happend with “O mere shahekhuba o meri jane jana…”
I have this recording in original.
So…….Who is best…….only RAFI SAAB
November 24th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Yes,chalo ik bar phir se ajnabi ban jayen was sung by Mahendra Kapur.I didn’t say it was sung by Rafi.My point was that singing of the highest order was perhaps beyond the capabilities of Kishore Kumar.Films and film music are forms of popular art meant primarily for undiscerning masses.Rarely does a movie rise above the level of the illiterate masses or semi-literate people.They lap up what the cognoscenti call kitsch.Even Rafi for whom I have the highest regard as a singer sang a great deal of rubbish to meet the demands of film makers.The purpose of most of the movies is cheap and ad hoc entertainment.Therefore just as we graduate from nursery classes onwards,there is progression in music also.From Kishore and Rafi’s chahe mujhe koi junglee kahe stuff we move on to music of higher domain where we find some of Rafi, much of Talat and Mukesh,even Mahendra Kapur admirable.Unfortunately,just as some people don’t make any progress in education,in music also people are unable to shake off there juvenile tastes.Otherwise one would move from film music on to folk music,ghazals,semi-classical and classical and will get a deeper understanding of the art of music.When Pakistani ghazal maestro Mehndi Hassan burst upon the scene in late sixties,Lata Mangeshkar herself said,”Unke gale se Bhagwan bolta hai.” She frankly admitted that much(and much indeed) of what she had sung for films was trash.Only a couple of days back I heard Sarakti jaye hai rukh se nakaab aahista aahista in Kishore’s voice and was rudely shocked.Kishore shouldn’t have even attempted to sing this ghazal.How mellifluously has Jagjit Singh rendered it!
Much is made of mere sapnon ki rani kab aayegi tu.Can there be a cruder expression of tender feelings of love?This song arouses images of road side Romeos making girls’ lives miserable.Even in the movie it is sung by a brainless eve teaser.
I mentioned Mahendra Kapur deliberately because,despite his meagre output,he sang songs of very high quality in a voice that had stupendous range.Someone in one of the posts said that Kishore’s voice is sexy while Rafi’s is not.Well,it is to each according to his tastes.However,talking of sexy songs,there is one by Mahendra Kapur Ai jaane chaman tera gora badan jaise khilta hua ghulab.Is there anything so sweet in Kishore’s repertoire?Talat’s last song was yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chandni teri ik adaa pe nissar hai after which he had to quit film
singing,not because he couldn’t sing but because great music was swept out of Hindi cinema by the storm that blew with Kishore.
Finally, one’s taste in music as in other things, depends upon what kind of person one is.If you are a lover of a woman you will sing with Rafi chaudvin ka chand ho or baharo phool barsao but if you are a marauding woman basher croon mere sapnon ki rani or roop tera mastana.The choice is yours.
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:44 pm
that is why when people talk about singers of the past, with male singers - it is always between rafi & kishore with mukesh sporadically. of course - popularity doesn’t indicate greatness but it is something to consider.
as for umrao jaan - alka yagnik is a GREAT singer. if she had high quality music directors of 60s for her album - she would do SUPER. i admire her the most after lata mangeshkar (who is incomparable) of the female singers.
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm
i do feel bad about manna dey. partha is sort of right. to be cruelly blunt… kk did overshadow him, at least in the 70s. manna dey for all his singing talents - did not have the MAGIC or personality of rafi & kishore. rafi & kishore were great singers AND had the X factor. kishore and manna are interesting contrasts. one is extreme in skill level whereas the other is extreme in the X factor.
mohd rafi is a completely different case however…he is the mount everest of singing - no one can overshadow him!
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:38 pm
dhaniram ji
the song chalo ek bar phir se is sung by mahendra kaporr n not rafisaab
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:26 pm
vikram,
i dont agree with the last few lines of ur last post. i dont thnk kk was a flat singer he had a good throw in his voice n a good voice but at the same time i agree tht the variations in his voice n style were less till the end. from the late 70s kk made his voice very heavy n cud never get his sonorous voice back. in the 80s he was singing some of worst songs not only of his career but also of hfm.the 80s wch cud be termed as the worst musical year in the hfm history was dominated by kk with poor rafi clones like shabbir kumar,shailendra singh ,anwar n mohd aziz. this wud always stay a mystery tht how the death of rafisaab resulted into a complete decay of musical standards in the space of 3 years.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:07 pm
partha,
i have read a few of ur comments and but the best one was manna being blown away by kk. wow thts the first one for me….. okie lets get back to tht post of urs manna was blown off by kk ….manna was blown off by kk in the 70s…. manna whose career n peak time was over by late 60s was blown off by kk in the 70s…. i hope i have read it properly!! manna who gave us songs like ‘chalat musafir’,'dil ka haal suunne’,'laga chunari mein daag’,'yeh ishq ishq hain’,’sur na saaje’; fast forward n come to the 70s n the same guy was playing second fiddle to kk in the song ‘yeh dosti’ thnks not only to the kk wave but also rdb !! manna was blown off way back in the 50s itself by the phenomenon named rafisaab , by the time kk reached his peak manna was a spent force….!!
had rafisaab been not thr manna definitely wud have been the top singer of tht era(but who wud have sung songs for shammi kapoor,dilip kumar n rajendra kumar i dont know)!! dont call manna a loser look in the mirror first u wud find a bigger loser than him…!!!!
November 17th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Anil ji:
Pl. do not be surprised by the number of Rafi supporters and
lovers. The world is filled with them. This is not to ‘demean’
kishore da in any way. We love all the great artists who has
given us so much happiness.
Last week I was on a pleasant journey to attend a marriage.
A musical evening was kept for the guests a day prior to the
occassion.
There was a flow of Rafi numbers at the venue by singers -
most of them senior doctors in Trichur.
There was one song of Kishore da - Mere Sapnon ki rani kab
aayegi tu, sung by a relative and we enjoyed it to the core.
No.. Rafi lovers are not very old or aged as u think.
The groom is a doctorby profession and a singer by passion.
He is born in 1980 the year Rafi left us.
The lad in the ‘Voice of India’ show on star t.v. Abhas Joshi is just
17 years old; born in 1990 ten years after Rafi left this world.
Kindly do not compare the two great singers and also do not
think too much as you will tend to lose your sleep.
Please enjoy your music is a sincere advice to you.
Binu Nair…. //Mumbai…//
November 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
bhaiyya,
during the ’so called golden days’ we had really dynamic heros like ‘bharat bhushan, rajendra kumar, dilip kumar, ‘yawn'’. ‘do sitaron ka zamin’ kind of songs?????
I am surprised.
The current lot of men (born in and around 1970) do love ‘yeh sham mastani, mere deewane pan ki, chookar mere man ko’. Even talking about the current lot of singers … they sing in their ‘natural voice’… a kind of voice that was so much publicised by Kishore Kumar.
There is no denying of the fact that Rafi was a good singer. But the point to note is that the current music trend (or should I call it the ‘latest’ and ‘enjoyable’ trend) is more of a Kishore Kumar kinda songs.
Well I re-visited this site after quite a few days, and I am amused at the comments made by the pro-Rafi fans. I believe this lot of men are fanatic.
Thanks,
Partha.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:31 am
Only Rafi was a perfect singer.No other singer had his modulations.Kishore Kumar’s rise in film singing coincided with decline in music.Music became noisy,more of cacophany than melody.In Indian film music was at its best in fifties and early sixties,kishore was nowhere.He was known for his clownish acting and singing.He can’t be compared with any of the great singers like Talat,Mukesh,Hemant etc.Even Mahendra Kapoor is better though the number of songs sung by him is negligible.The quality of music can’t be determined by the ignorant masses but by those who are well-versed in the field.By common consent,K.L.Saigal is rated very high as a singer.The reason is he poured his soul into songs which had poetry of very high quality.Talat has sung Ghalib and other very great poets.Then in more recent times.Sahir Ludhianvi was wonderfully rendered by Rafi.Songs like Maine shayad tumhen pehle bhi kabhi dekha hai or kabhi khud pe kabhi halaat pe rona aya or chalo ik bar phir se ajnabi ban jayen ham dono were beyond Kishore’s singing capabilities.Kishore was more of a showman than an artist.kishore is liked by those who love shore(meaningless noise).
In any case,the debate is futile because tastes are acquired through assiduous efforts.Why don’t the masses listen to classical music?Because classical music requires trained sensibilities.Those who don’t have time or inclination to refine their taste opt for low quality.
Some Bengali brethren seem to support Kishore simply for ethnic reasons.But Bengal has very high traditions of music.May I know which Bengali songs has Kishore sung,including Rabinder Sangeet?
November 10th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
RAfi’s voice was swet but not sexy unlike kishore.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Mr. Anil I would call you the greatest joke ever if you keep loving KK once you are 40 years old. It’s your frustration, nothing else. How can you generalize music based on age? There was this guy on “Sare ga Ma little champs” who sang “Albela sajan Aayo Re”. It’s a pure classical song. He was hardly ten years old. What it tells us all is that age will never define good music. All you need is good musical ears. Your views are blasphemous. By the way I am pretty young. KK no doubt was a rare talent, but does not even come close to Rafi. Rafi and Lata are beyond comparision. You can compare rest of the singers with KK. As I mentioned in one of my earleir posts, please refer to the Outlook survey to clear your doubts. KK was not even mentioned in the most popular singer category. Only Rafi and Lata found a mention. KK doesn’t become the best because you think so. Rafi towers over KK because the public and the real music lovers think so. Accept the fact. Rafi did playback for Kk a number of times, despite him being a good singer. As a singer KK was one-dimensional where as Rafi on the other hand was multi-dimensional. KK used to sing flat. He had very few variations. Rafi was a singer for all occassions and all kinds of songs. He didn’t have any particular style. He could mould his voice as the situation demanded.
November 8th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Excuse me? For all I care, if Kishore had not been in the music industry, it still would have done fine. And when you say Rafi fans are fanatic and have no sense of music, I can smell the same fanaticism and lack of musical sense in you when you uphold Kishore.
No. I’m not aged. I’m 19. And I love Rafi. That’s just a blatant generalization.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
I am surprised at people who say Rafi is better than kishore. I guess most of the people who LIKE rafi are quite aged probably in their 40’s , 50’s.
Kishore voice is awesome and so melodious. The youthfulness that kishore brings in his songs.
I think people who say Rafi is better than Kishore are fanatics and probably do not have any sense of music.
Imagine the music industry without Kishore! I can’t even dream of that. But if Rafi wouldn’t have been there it really wouldn'’t have made any difference.
KISHORE is a blessing.
November 7th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Hi Muhajid,
Your comment - “So, stop living in the past and move on with the times.”
We all move with times perhaps the past music and melodies are too perfect and melodious to be forgotten for ever. The same holds true for KK’s contribution of the early 70s as well.
The music of films you mentioned Ashiqui, Dilwale Dulhaniya le jayenge, Yes boss, Hum dil de chuke sanam is good but cannot be placed on par with the songs of 50s, 60s and early 70s, just no way man. Because there is big different between a good and a great music.
A classic example is Umrao Jaan of 1981 and that of 2006. Both films are good. I would not like to compare Rekha with Ashwayria, she acted exceptional well. But the Umrao Jaan of 2006 failed because of the music lacked the “Moghali Touch” compared to the former.
Coming back to the songs 50s and 60s sung by any singer (leave Rafi aside) give tremendous piece of mind, which I believe is very much needed in todays hectic life style.
Commenting of Rafi listen to songs “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale”; “Mann Tadpat Hari Darshan”; “Madhuban Mein Radhika”; “Mann Re Tu Kaahe Naa Dhir”, etc when you suffer from 102 degree fever next time. Your fever will come down to 99. It is a tried and tested. In other words Rafi’s voice possesses remedial powers.
Possibly you may be aware that music is used in practice to cure illness & diseases in many countries world wide.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:48 am
One thing I’ve noticed is the gradual decline in the complexity of songs as KK became famous. That speaks about how singing had become “relatively easy”. All you needed was a good resonating voice, and the composers would create songs that would suit your voice, and won’t demand much. If you had a good voice and could hold tune, the songs were not that difficult to sing. Not unlike the 50s where the composers composed an amazing array of songs, and the singers had to adapt.
Makes me wonder could KK ever sing Man Tarpad Hari Darshan, or O Duniya Ke Rakhwaale. Yes, KK had a beautiful resonating voice, but the range of songs was limited. Yes, you may now argue that KK sang classical songs too, but none of those classical songs compare to what Rafi sang.
My point here is not to argue over who is better. But rather to highlight how the musical standards (if held against true Hindustani, raga-based, classic music) have fallen, ever since Rafi bid-adieu. With that, I’ll leave you to speculate now who is actually better?
November 6th, 2007 at 7:15 am
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November 3rd, 2007 at 9:41 am
Mujahid : Please do not degrade ‘the golden era songs’ . you may
not have an ear for these ‘ golden works of pure joy ‘ crafted
by able men and women - with their blood and sweat.
But, I am sure that your next generation and many more may on
occassions burst in to evergreen classic songs : Baar Baar din ye
ayeh, from farz; Yahoo, chaahe koi mujhe junglee….. (Junglee)
Teri pyaari pyari surat ko.. kisi ke nazar na lage.. (Sasural)
Yeh jo mohabbat hai (Kati Patang); Baharon phool barsaao, mera
mehboob aaya hai(Suraj); Tumna Mujhe dekha hokar meherban (
Teesri Manzil), Hui shaam unaka khayaal aa gaya; Jil mil sitaron
ka aaangan hoga (Jeevan Mrityu); Mere mehboob khayamat hogi -
Kishore- Mr.X; Pal Pal dil ke saath - Kishore ; and many many many
great ‘golden’ numbers. The list is endless.
It will be beyond you to stop your generations and your great
grand-sons and grand daughters - away from listening to these
‘greatest gems’ from the music sphere.
Binu Nair…; Mumbai..
November 2nd, 2007 at 10:38 pm
Debjyoti, stop being a parrot. It might mimic speech and cram up a few lines, but still remains a parrot. You are like a newborn baby who only knows how to cry. I would suggest you and others like you to go through the survey conducted by the “OUTLOOK” magazine about the best ever songs from hindi films. Mohd. Rafi has seven songs compared to KK’s two in the top twenty. Guess what! Rafi’s song “Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare”, was voted the best ever. Don’t be srprised if you don’t find KK in the list of the most popular playback singers ever (Only Rafi and Lata are listed). To lend credibility to the survey, the jury included lyricists, singerrs and music directors from Bollywood. A few of them included Abhijeet, Kumar Sanu, Sonu Nigham, Shaan, Manna Dey,Anu Malik, Bhappi Lahri, Himesh Reshmmaiya, Rajesh Roshan,Shantanu Moitra, Ehsaan, Loy, Gulzaar and others. What does it tell us? Do I need to elaborate? Even Lata had only six songs in the top twenty. Again I am not referring to this survey to demean KK. He was a great singer, and will always remain so. But accept it or not my friend, Rafi is just beyond comparision. Yes, if you talk about someone who could act, sing and compose, ofcourse KK was way above the rest of them, Rafi included. The sum of parts was greater than the individual in his case. Rafi on the other hand was a pure playback singer. The way he stressed on each and every word in the song was sheer magic. Someone had once remarked that” if god were to sing, he would sing in Rafi’s voice”. Please stop demeaning Rafi. As a human being he was spotless and perfect . He never hurt anybody while he was alive. In fact, he helped so many people in the film industry financially and in other ways. Those who write just to trash the best singer that we ever had, should learn from his life as to how to conduct oneself in social domain with humility and a pupose.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:40 am
Vikram,
Thanks for the complement.
BTW, please don’t talk about comments made by Manna Dey. He is one of the losers when it comes to Hindi Film Industry. He definitely is a very good singer (no one could have sung ‘laaga chunari mein daag’ more lucidly/fluently than him), but unfortunately the advent of ‘Kishore Kumar’ just threw him out of the industry. Hence he has ‘extreme envy’ when it comes to Kishore Kumar. The comments that Manna Dey makes about Kishore Kumar just brings out the poor old man’s frustration. Thats it!
There is no replacement for Kishore Kumar as the ‘KING of HINDI PLAYBACK INDUSTRY’. Thats it. I am just re-iterating what I and a whole bunch of other ‘intellects’ have been suggesting/insisting.
Thanks,
Partha.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Mujahid : Open ur ears and listen to classics and go down the
memory lane a bit.
Listen to Kishore, rafi, mukesh, hemant, saighal, talat, lata,
asha and others.
You will find that rafi has sung all type of songs including classicals
which places him - head and shoulders high from all singers.
We all love Kishore ji but please do not be biased and run down
the golden era songs.
Kishore Kumar too belonged to this ‘great era’ sir.
Binu Nair.
October 28th, 2007 at 10:21 am
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October 25th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Partha, you are improving with every post of yours. Your choice of words seems to be getting better. KK was definitely a great exponent of playback singing. Rafi had once remarked that nobody could have sung “Dukhi man mere”, better than KK. They had mutual admiration for each other. I don’t think they ever had any rivalry between them. But to say that Kishore was a better singer then Rafi would just not be right. Rafi’s voice was out of this world. Even Manna Dey (He knows a little something about music) accepts the fact that Mohd. Rafi was way above the rest of the competition. Facts can not be changed. Can you change Newton’s laws of motion?
October 25th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Lastly, ‘Well said Mujahid’. You do prove the theory that ‘KK fans are better intellects’ and ‘not a bunch of insane jokers’.
Partha.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:04 am
There is this KK classic.
‘Chingari koyi bhadke ..’
Thats what is happening at the moment
Partha.