An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
© Copyrighted to Yoodleeyoo.com All Rights Reserved.
October 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Enough has been said about “Tum bin jaoon kahan” (Pyar Ka Mausam).. Though I personally felt the Rafi version was better sung, the Kishore version was more popular.
The reason is NOT the quality of singing NOR the voice.
Kishore was primarily a light vocal singer and “Tum bin jaoon kahan” would figure among the top 50 of Kishore’s songs.
Rafi had a much bigger range and a light song like “Tum bin jaoon kahan” would not figure among even top 200 Rafi songs. It is way too cheap for most people who listen to Rafi.. When you think of Rafi’s best you have to consider “Man tadpat” or “Tumhari zulf ke saaye” or “Main nigahen tere chehre” or “Kabhi khud pe” or “Door rehkar na karo baat” and the likes.
“Tum bin jaoon kahan” belongs to the light genre of “Aanewala pal” or “pal pal dil ke paas” and therefore easily finds a place in Kishore’s sentimental hits..
Rafi’s sentimental hits are a much longer shot…
October 20th, 2007 at 4:20 am
Mr Binu,
Whenever I present you with obvious facts, you take a trip down memory lane, whats with that? I mean, I have never questioned the greatness of Rafi and all the other legends, they are great, no doubt about it.
But how could possible think Rafi is better than Kishore ? If you really do so present me with obvious facts similar to what I have produced so far, please…
Look at the music scenario today or for that matter, for the past 20 years or so, you can get a pretty good idea of what has been going on. I agree the quality of music has substantially deteriorated but then who is to be blamed, not Sanu and Abhijeet, they have given some of the best melodies in recent times, take for example Ashiqui, Dilwale Dulhaniya le jayenge, Yes boss, Hum dil de chuke sanam and so on.
Any avid music fan can vouch for the fact that these songs if not better are at least on par with the songs of 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. As is with other things in life there are good songs and bad songs, originals and copies, but its just the way it is.
So, stop living in the past and move on with the times.
October 19th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Partha, for god’s and KK’s sake keep your ridiculous and poisonous comments to yourself. Do You know that you are the latest laughing stock on the web? I would suggest you to first learn something about music and then pen your views. I am sure you will be a changed man, if you are one. You are hell bent upon demeaning Rafi. Why? Because you can not digest the fact that his voice was divine and that he was way above the rest of the competition as far as singing goes. KK never had a problem with that. Rafi doest not need validation of his singing talent from somebody who is as ignorant as you. I have the highest regards for KK. He had a great voice and sang with sheer energy. Even though he was not a trained singer, but had a lot of innate qualities. But, at the same time he also knew that Rafi was the better singer. Popularity at a particular point of time is not the parameter of being great. Right now you are very popular on this forum for your absurd comments, but that does not mean you are an authority on all the fools. I am sure there are plenty of them like you. KK needs better followers than you.
October 19th, 2007 at 12:28 am
If singing for Amitabh is the yardstick, then I rest my case. Sudesh Bhosle would win a million times. I like KK and Rafi both. But when it comes to calling a spade a spade, I prefer Rafi. He was peerless. His control over his voice was matchless. There is no point in comparing the two. Kishore was great in his own way, but had his limitations. He has sung a lot of songs that are pure gems. I would rather enjoy their work.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Partha : Please before opening up, understand Kishore Ji well
and don’t become a laughing stock.
We all love Kishore Kumar.
The singing genius loved K.L.Saigal and Mohd Rafi - not for
their personalities but for their singing abilities. They are dead
and gone and they can never answer your lies and slanders.
Go on ignorant folks. Call them any names. It will never matter
to them.
It can only soothe your false pride..
They became legends in their life time itself and your comments
does’nt matter. Folks u are just showing ur ignorance about Music
and Kishore Kumar. We pity you people..
Binu Nair….. Mumbai…
October 16th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Mr.Rajiv Vijaykar a noted music critic has written in Screen that
music companies are making great losses and are on the verge
of closing down if the music of new releases do not sell in
a ‘big way’.
Sanu and also Abhjeet are partly responsible for this mess.
Music composers led by AR Rehman and company and present
day directors are the real villains of the piece..
Present daymusic lovers and composers are in a big minority and ‘old is gold’ and this sells in great numbers - is proved once again.
Its time Mr. Mujahid - you stop talking from your hat and
change your tune. The Earlier , the Better.
Binu Nair. Mumbai..
October 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Everybody,
Forget about Kishore, the fact is, even Kishore’s clones are whipping Rafi’s clones. BTW Udit Narayan is not a Rafi clone. The only Rafi clone who is holding some ground is Sonu Nigam and that is because Kumar Sanu has taken a break. Even today the current best singer is a Kishore clone “Abhijeet”.
October 15th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Binu ji,
no response to the above 2 stanzas written by Sachin and Avtar??
There was one person in this portal who had mentioned that Rafi used to sound like a pigeon (ghun ghun).. I aptly agree with that guy.
See, there can be a whole lot of good singers, but the ‘voice quality’ that touches the heart and soul is none other than KISHORE KUMAR.
Binuji, I think you are an old man.. (you yourself had mentioned you had met Kishore Kumar in 1986 somewhere).. I belive your age is > 50 yrs, and more importantly, you are a retired person… Avtar had mentioned ‘majboori ke maare gaana..’, I think that was an ‘apt’ answer.
Frankly speaking if you want to praise your idol ‘Rafi saab’ go to a site that talks only about Rafi, and not yoodleeyoo.com… which I believe is for KISHORE KUMAR lovers… the greatest BOLLYWOOD playback singer…
Thanks,
Partha.
October 15th, 2007 at 12:44 am
Gaate to lallu bhaggu log bhi hain,kintu Maha Gayak sirf do hain:
KISHOREda/ji & ASHAji.
Ye dono khul(jee bhar) ke gaate the,baaki log jaise dare hue hain ya dabau me gaate hain,ya to majboori ke maare.
Sab gayako ko milakar bhi Kishoreda jaisa gaayak nahin bante hain.
Avtar S
October 14th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
KISHORE DA IS A GREAT SINGER. RAFI IS ALSO A GREAT SINGER.
BUT IF YOU COMPARE KISHORE DA WITH RAFI, NO DOUBT KISHORE DA IS MUCH BETTER THAN RAFI. KISHORE DA IS GURU. AS PER MY THINKING HE IS SINGER OF THE MILLENNIUM.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:22 am
A TRIBUTE TO THE LEGEND KISHORE KUMAR
IT is said that if you are “not” a music lover then there is a bit
of “humanity” missing in you. More. If you are not a Kishore Kumar
lover u are’nt a music lover - too. “Something is lacking in you”.
Which music lover is there who will not love immortals like
“Dukhi man mera, sun mera kehna”, “Phoolon ke rang se, dil ki
lagan se”, Mere mehboob khayamat hogi, Aa chal ke tuzhe mai
leke chaloon, Pyaar baatte chalo; Khwab ho tum ya koi haqueeqat;
Ajnabi tum jaane pehchaane sa lagte ho; Yeh shaam mastaani;
Choti si yeh duniya and many many gems of yore.
Kishore Kumar Ganguly born at Khandwa on August 4, 1929 shares
his birth year with Lata and Suraiya. Kishore Kumar in his youth
brought plenty of K.L.Saighal records and practiced for a singing
career.
But, singing was not a lucrative career in the early days hence
his elder brother Ashok Kumar the actor cum singer decided that
Kishore would begin his career as an actor. He would resent
being in front of the camera with grease paint but circumstances
made him an actor first. He also started singing in chorus songs
post 1948 onwards.
Kishore’s first playback song Marne ki duaan kyoon maangu was
on actor Dev Anand and the second was the song : Jag mag, jag
mag karta nikhla chaand.. which was a hit number.
He also did the “only” commercial for Brylcream. He held his
forte in the field of acting, singing and doing comedy roles.
In between he gave hits like Chota sa ghar hoga, Jeevan ke
safar mein raahi, Ina mina deeka, Hum hai raahi pyaarke and
many more hits.
Kishore Kumar did some ninety-five movies with actresses such
as Madhubala (7); Vyjayantimala(6); and six movies with Kumkum
Meena Kumari , Nutan and Tanuja.
As a composer he did movies such as Jhumroo, Chalti Ka naam
gaadi, Door gagan ke chaaon mein, Door ka raahi and Door
waadion ke chaaon mein.
At a show post 1980 in distant Kolhapur, he observed a two
minute silence before a concert to pay respects to another great
singer the incomparable Mohd Rafi who was a friend, guide and
colleague to Kishore Kumar.
On October 13, 87, the multi-faceted legend suffered a massive
heart attack at his home. It was a devastating and a cruel day.
It was also his elder brother Ashok Kumar’s birthday too. Kishore
the legend could not stand this attack and left us forever.
Today, it’s twenty years and his songs have “immortalised” him
forever.
Legends never do die; they can only live in our hearts and minds.
Kishore Kumar will never be forgotten.
Binu Nair ….. The Rafi Foundation.. Mumbai…
October 12th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Parthaji :
Ur frustration is on display and I pity ur ignorance. Please
do not “run away” from the points of discussion and relax
a bit. U will be all right soon.
binu nair.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Binu ji,
Binu Nair wrote…
Partha ji - please do not push me hard for writing about the
legends of hindi music.
I would like to suggest you doing something of this sort.
It will enable you to kill your time.. you see “idle brain is a devil’s workshop”.
Thanks,
Partha.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:22 am
By the way Partha ji : SARGAM MAGAZINE will definitely
carry articles of various “music personalities”.
The current Sargam Magazine has an article on the lovable
Mukesh written by Biman Baruah from Assam who is a great
Rafi fan.
Sargam Magazine also has write-ups on composers Dattaram
and Snehal Bhatkar who passed away this year and the media
never reported .
Very soon we will carry a full-fledged story on O.P. Nayyar
and Kishore Kumar and I a m planning a S.D.BURMAN +
R.D.BURMAN music show in Bombay very shortly.
This is done by a Rafi fan for the love of music and music alone
and I think I do not require to take your “consent” for the same.
The point herein is that SARGAM magazine will talk of music
which is loved by the people without being partial to any
particular artist.
Partha ji - please do not push me hard for writing about the
legends of hindi music.
Binu Nair The Rafi Foundation ….. Sargam Magazine.
October 11th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
My dear Parth ji :
What happende to you? U promised that u will return after six
months to write in this thread : but u have returned about
five months earlier. what has happened? R u nervous that
I am writing of two greatest legends and applauding them which
u can’ digest..
Rafi lovers are not sectarian and extremists is what I wish to say to
you.
Sargam is devoted to celebrating the hindi film music and the works of legends from nineteen forty five to the eighties..
May I say that we esteem all the legends of the hindi music
scene including Kishore Kumar - who is not ur sole personal
property mr. Partha.
Please learn to live with various views on legends and please do
not lose your sleep - as we are discussing Music in a public
domain and not in your drawing room.
Please also try to listen to the works of singers and legends from
saighal saab, talat mahmud, c.h.atma, manna dey, g.m.durrani,
Pankaj Mallik, Surendra, Hemanta kumar, Rafi to Kishore kumar
for a change.
And may we tell u that Kishore Kumar respected saighal and rafi
and we music lovers love all the three greats for their greatest
unparalled contribution to hindi film music along with Talat saab,
Manna Dey, Mukesh and Hemanta Kumar to name a few great legends.
At least come to the level of Kishore ji is my request and pleading
to u and cease being a sectarian personality.
Binu nair. the rafi foundation/sargam magazine
October 11th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Partha and Mujahid ji,
I respect ur feelings about Kishoreda, he is without doubt the most versatile film personality India has ever seen. But please do not let this overshadow your judgement when talkin about the best when in comes to singing.
Kishoreda no doubt a very very good singer, i should say a great singer, is not the best that ever was.
Mohammed Rafi sahab was the best singer Indian subcontinent has seen, Ever Kishoreda himself was his big fan. As kishore’s fans Don’t You know that he himself said” I am Mohammed Rafi’s biggest fan”,
He also blasted Jagjit singh once for making a bad statement on Rafi sahab, Kishoreda said ” WHo do these so called ghazal singers of today think they are, When people like mukesh and me dare not say anything against the legend(rafi sahab)”.
so you see that Rafi sahab was the ultimate singer that we had and even people like Kishore and Mannadey accepted this fact and respected him. I hope you too understand this and start repectin all the musical legends,
October 11th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Binu ji,
Just joining the party before Oct 13th.
Kis Kis ko same-same type ke analogy doge?
I think you should stick to “The Rafi Foundation & Sargam Magazine” only. I have never visited any Rafi site.. since I am absolutely sure about who the TRUE GENIUS (and NO. 1) is.
I believe its just your “fear about your idol (Rafi-saab) who has only delivered quantity and not quality”.. that brings you to KISHORE KUMAR’s portal. It shows how hard you are trying to prove (?) again-and-again the very same fact, that is already a forgone conclusion… I pity on you man.
Well take care of your BP and health.. Try to be in proper shape.
Thanks,
Partha.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Mujahid ji..
I will never understand your logic but will always appreciate your
love for kishore kumar ji. We all love him - for he is an allrounder.
Please tell me when a singers 12 songs out of 16 is played in
a popular programme - which is the barometer of public opinion
how ” he can’t “be ranked as No. One?
I am talking about the ever popular binaca and later “cibaca” geet
mala broadcast on radio ceylon every wednesday from 8.00 p.m
to 9.00 p.m.
In May 1980 - Mohd Rafi songs numbered 12 out of a total of 16 songs.
And on July 31 he left this universe “forever”.
He started singing from 1946 itself and climbed to the No. one spot in 1952 with Baiju Bawara the songs which are immortalised.
I really cant’t understand your logic but can understand your
love for Kishore Kumar.
Please do not distort facts is my fervent plea to you regarding
the greatest singer of our times..
Please also be informed that Oct.13 is Kishore Kumar ji ’s 20th
death anniversary and I will be writing a “fitting” tributes in this
thread for the veteran singer, actor, director, lyricists, composer,
writer and many more things whom the “art” loving people will
love and remember for time immemorial.
Binu Nair Mumbai - The Rafi Foundation & Sargam Magazine
October 8th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
mujahid,
i am sorry to say but u dont understand how important gavaskar was to the indian team,u might compare him with anyone n might come out with a conclusion tht he was not a king but he was the first real superstar of indian cricket. anyways the topic here is abt rafisaab n kk n ther r no two ways abt it tht who was better.i admire kk n i consider him to be best allrounder to have graced the indian cinema but thn he was never a king in any field be it acting,composing,direction or singing he always had to contend with 2nd or 3rd spot how much u hate it its true !!!!
October 8th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
Binu and Vicky,
Until 1969 Rafi reigned supreme, but since 1970 till 1987 Kishore reigned supreme.
Actually it should be, There are actors, n there is Amitabh Bachchan, there r singers, n there is Kishore Kumar!!
In 1980 Kishore had 5 solos in the yearly top 25 compared to Rafi’s 2.
Moreover to be a “King” one has to act like a “King”, which Kishore did.
BTW, just because Gavaskar scored more runs and centuries when compared to Vivian Richards, it doesn’t mean he was the “King”. The title of King went to Richards similarly, Rafi may be a great singer, a complete singer, a trained singer but still, he was never called a “King” because of his middle class mentality. The title of the “King” went to Kishore.
October 7th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Rafi saaab also sang for rupaiya one mr mujahid. money was
not a ‘CRITERIA’ for RAFI saab. Only the song mattered for him.
His second interest was “helping companions in distress”.
That’s why Rafi saab is remembered, loved and revered by
legion of followers in every part of the world.
In May 1980, Rafi saab had 12 songs out of 16 in the popular
Binaca geet mala and he was leading. He left this world
as the No. 1 singer of his time.
Kishore ji ruled from 71 to 75 as number one singer. No issue and
no quarrel about it.
Its now clear that one Mohd Rafi is born in many many centuries.
I love kishore ji and please enjoy your tune and do not compare
the great and the greatest singers of our times…
Binu Nair. Mumbai.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:25 am
there are actors n there is amitabh bachan there r singers n there is rafisaab!!
binaca geet mala in 1970 had 5 rafi solos n 8 kk solos did anyone chk it for 10-12 years bfore 1970or has gleefully forgotten to look at it? i am eager to know how many kk songs were thr in top 25 in those years. kk did not stand a chance whn rafisaab was going great guns.kk is a grt singer no doubt but rafisaab is too big for any singer..!!
October 6th, 2007 at 3:08 am
Binu,
Thanks for proving my point. Rafi maxed out at 18000 and Kishore going strong at 25000 in 1980, wonder what he was making in 1987….
For the facts, look at Binaca geet Mala 1970 charts, Kishore had 8 solos in top 25 compared to 5 of Rafi. Need I say more….
Thanks..
October 5th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Dear Mujahid :
Sorry to say that 50% of what u said in the 10 points - are faulty
and are not based on facts. Its ur “personal opinion” only dear sir.
For example Aradhana was released in 1969. It requires 2 years
to make a movie and get released . So Kishore Kumar got the
lead only 1971 onwards and not the next day of Aradhanas release.
About payments, Rafi saabs first song got him rs.50 and the last one
Rs.18000 -Just the mukhda of Aas Paas in 1980, 3 days before he
passed away. Kishore Kumar then raised his fees to rs.25000 after
Rafi saabs demise.
Please do not distort facts to prove your point is my sincere
appeal to you.
Binu Nair Mumbai….
October 4th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
To All Rafi and Kishore Fans,
Here is a list of hard facts (like it or not, it is the bitter truth)
There is no such thing as the greatest singer of all time.
1) KL Saigal was the best singer till 1950.
2) Md Rafi was the best singer till 1969.
3) Kishore kumar trumped Md Rafi and was the best singer till 1987 when he died
4) Rafi did make a comeback in 1973 and was around till 1980 but he could not regain the number one position from Kishore.
5) Kishore has more Filmfare awards than Rafi.
6) Kishore was paid more money per song than Rafi. (1980 - Kishore 25000 and Rafi 20000)
7) When it comes to singing duets no singer has been able to dominate Kishore kumar and that includes Lata, Rafi, Asha, Mukesh, Mannadey, Yesudas and Balasubramanium etc.
To sum it up Rafi is like Dilip kumar, whereas Kishore is like Amitabh.