An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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October 3rd, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Good Music is what is good to hear. As listeners, we individually are able to relate ourself to the tunes, the orchestration & the voice. Precisely why we tend to have favorable opinions towards a particular type of music or singer.
There would be no end to such disputes. We should understand that the greatness of these singers lie in the truth that they are still alive among us even after so many years of their passing away mortally. We would never know their indepth class & greatness unless they differed.
Rafi & Kishore were the undisputed rulers of Indian cinema in terms of male playback singing. Kishore did well to give the much needed support to the changing styles of Indian Film music around the 70s-80s.
Both will be missed for ever by the industry & remain with us always through their contribution.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:13 am
Clarification: Rafi’s voice was still great in 1980 (miswrote by using “worn”) but it wasn’t as great as 1965 - his peak.
Kishore Kumar was a great singer too - within his limitations. No doubt he had a great voice. Excellent voice quality in “Tum Nahin Ya Hum Nahin” ; “Rhim Jhim Gire Sawan” ; “Aacha to Hum Chalte Hain” (my favorite LP duet) ; “O Saathi Re” (tied for 1st place with Rafi’s Yahan Main Ajnabi Hoon for sad songs - incidentally both by KA) ; “Duet with Asha in Ram Balram” ; songs of Padosan - too many to list - I am not a KK hater or anything. I respect him, I listen to his songs - but in comparison to Mount Everest of singing Mohammed Rafi - he does not compare well overall.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:06 am
Gentlemen - let’s not get personal or use unprofessional words - else the moderators will chime in and we don’t want that. A few pts I want to make.
It is very exaggerated as to how much or how long Kishore Kumar “eclipsed” Mohammed Rafi. Mohammed Rafi was used more in 1969, 1970, and I think the numbers were close in 1971 but Kishore may have had more that year. In 1972 Kishore picked up and that year Rafi stopped singing for 8 months due to advice from some religious leaders (although Islam is a beautiful religion that has nothing against music - there are some evil music that it forbids but IMO there must have been some misunderstanding). Of course, his actions in 1972 would effect records in 1973 and that is the year Rafi sang only 23 songs - some real gems like “Aaj Mausam Bada Bei-maan Hai” ; “Tere Bindya Re” ; “Deewano Hai Deewane” ; “Yaadon Ki Barat” (love the way Rafi cuts into the middle - both singers did excellent). If THAT is his “low point” - it shows what an amazing singer he was.
1974-1976 Kishore is number one but Rafi always manages to get in gems in between, my favorite being “Tere Galiyon Mein” with Usha Khanna. 1977 - Rafi is back on top with Kishore Kumar. He is not number 2 but number 1 with Kishore Kumar. MDs used him just as much (if not more - the records always have room for debate I know) if not more.
Kishore had the better of Rafi for 1972-1976. No more. It was not on musical merit that Kishore got more recognition than Rafi in 1969. The song “Main Kahi Kavi Na Banjaoyo” was far superior to anything Kishore sang that year including “Roop Tera Mastana” or “Mere Sapano Ki Rani”. The voice quality, the feelings, the composition (by SJ whose favorite singer was always Rafi) - was unmatched.
Did you know that “Roop Tera Mastana” wasn’t very popular when first heard on radio. Only when people say the PICTURISATION on a sexy Sharmila Tagore in that sensual sequence - did sex sell and along with it so did the song. The song alone was not enough. Kishore alone was not enough - people are fickle - he was part of a wave sort of like people buying so many Ipods in the US (it is a trend) - he was part of the new, single superstar Rajesh Khanna, RDB trio. Of course, another reason was that Rafi ruled for 20+ years and people always want a little bit of change - so they resorted to Kishore Kumar for a few years.
1969: “Main Kahin Kavi Na Banjao” ; “Tumhari Nazar” ; “Yeh Reshmi Zulfen” ; “Bura Mat Suno” ; Saathiya Nahi Jaana; “Dil Ne Dil Ko Pukara” are just a few of the Mohammed Rafi masterpieces.
1969 wasn’t about musical merit but trend & Sharmila’s sex appeal. Everyone knows that FilmFare awards are not absolute but sort of fickle between great artists where you can’t go wrong with either decision.
1970: “Mere Mitwa” ; “Yeh Duniya Yeh Mehfil” ; “Sukh Se Saab Saathi” ; “Mera Man Tera Pysassa” ; “Jhil Mil Sitaron” - all masterpieces. Kishore had no songs in the same level as these.
Rafi’s voice quality was supreme till about 1973 - after his break and after having sung 20,000 different times (this doesn’t mean different songs or songs recorded - it just means the total times he used his vocal cords) - naturally his voice wouldn’t be the same.
Even then, I liked him better in duets like “Chor Sipahee” - his voice was much more lighter and cheerful (as the character dictated) melodious whereas Kishore’s voice was barritone and strong but not as melodious (as character dicated). Still, Rafi’s lighter voice was more melodious and it was cleaner whereas Kishore’s could be slightly coarse.
Rafi had the harder part to sing in “Tum Nahin Ya Hum Nahin”. Hear Asha go to high range, hear Kishore go to high range, and then hear Rafi Sahab go to high range! His voice was clean and melodious although IMO Kishore did an equally great job.
As for Tum Bin Jaaon Kahan: I like the Kishore version better but only because of yodelling. Rafi’s voice was CRISPER, more melodious in that song, and see the way he goes to high pitch whereas Kishore sings it flat. RDB (Kishore’s GOOD friend) had Rafi sing it first then gave it to Kishore to improve upon it. It’s also in Kishore’s good fortune that perhaps that song was personally suited for his yodelling and designed by his friend RDB - ask both singers to sing random songs and you see Kishore simply doesn’t have the RANGE or ability to sing it or his voice just doesn’t work for some songs - he had his limitations whereas Rafi had NONE - and this is why Kishore wasn’t so popular in 50s - no other lame reason.
Definitely liked Rafi better in Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara (even though his vocals had been worn by then - much more melodious & full of emotion where Kishore sings flat and coarse).
Kishore was a great singer - but he wasn’t as COMPLETE, as CONSISTENT, as MELODIOUS, nor CLEAN VOICE QUALITY as the Mount Everest of singing - Mohammed Rafi Sahab!
Partha Chatterjee - I don’t need to tell you as you know you are entitled to your opinions. So be it. Each man to his own.
September 25th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Shasank ji..
I will never compare KISHORE JI and Rafi Saab.. Only fools can
do that ..
I love Rafi Saab but I admire Kishore ji.. no end.
I have met Kishore Ji and spoke also with him in Abu Dhabi in
1986. How can I not appreciate such a great person.
But some writers herein are scary of Rafi saabs popularity so they
come over and say : Kishore ji : you are the King… Your are the
greatest ;. This is their right .. But donot bring legend Rafi saab
in to this is my fervent plea..
They use slang language too .. which is not permissible in Civil
Society and in a Music Forum..
So writers please note it…
Binu Nair..
September 24th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Binu Nair Sir,
I want to tell that Kishorekumar was a great singer like Rafi, Mukesh & others. We cant compare any of the singers. They all are originals on their own ways. Here Kishorekumar said one of the stage show that Mukeshji gone, Rafisahab gone, but what will i alone do. He adore rafisahab & mukeshji many times & said that i not like rafi or mukesh like singer. He himself compared with other singers. He himself sang with rafi, mukesh & other singers also. So, Kishorekumar was allrounder in film industry what i can say, but he compared himself with other singers, what a great person he was. He sang one song of Mohdrafi’s in that stage show which was organised in North India - “Man re tu kaahe”. He got tears when Mukeshji & Rafisahab died. So kishore is Kishore, Rafi is Rafi. No other kishore kumar will rise in our film industry.
Shashank_72@rediffmail.com
September 21st, 2007 at 7:38 am
Partha Ji..
U are using dirty words and now justifying it. It shows ur class
which I said earlier. Bengali Brahmins are polished. very right.
But u do not seem to be so..
Rafi lovers have very great vocabalaries but will never use them
like you have done, please note. Please do not tarnish the name
of two great singers : Mohd Rafi & Kishore Kumar : by your
stinking language and please do not have any hallucinations :
Rafi saabs name, fame reaches out to many countries and
nationalities. Kishore Kumar ji respected Rafi saab and that
Rafi saab has sung 11 songs for Kishore Kumar on screen.Its on
the suggestions of Kishore Kumar himself. Please do not forget
this truth sir.
I love Kishore Kumar..
Binu Nair.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Kishoreda is the best.The entire universe knows that Kishoreda is the greatest singer and versatile genius artist.
JAI SHRI MAHAGURU KISHOREDA BHAGWAN KI!!!
September 19th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Binu,
Speaking of class… Lets say that I am a class apart…
The kind of language used by others are worse-er than the ‘1 single word’ that I had used.
For your information, Bengali Brahmins are known world wide to be some of the most polished set of people.
What ever be it… I request you to carry a poll.. and lets get the figures in black-and-white. Full Stop.
Its just 2 stanzas in 2 pages that has crazed Rafi fans like you.. That is the bottomline.. you folks got worried
I am visiting these pages for the 1st time in my life. Just 2 stanzas and thats it.. that shows the power of KISHORE KUMAR fans.
Well thats it.. I am signing off.. I will visit these pages again after 6 months.
Thanks,
Partha Chatterjee.
September 18th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Partha - ji : This is your right to like kishore Kumar songs . No
problem with that. I like Kishore jis few songs. But I love
the goldies of our veteran singers from K.L. Saighal to Mohd Rafi.
I Know Many Bengali Brahmins. The do not use words like fu….
like you have used. Are you scared of Rafi saabs popularity. Or do
you have spells of hallucinations re : Rafi saab.
Please enjoy ur music. ;Please do not spoil the name of Bengali
Brahmins and of Kishore Kumar by using words like fu……
It shows your class . Please mend your ways
Binu Nair.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Binu Nair,
I am not a 25 yr old. I am a 38 yr old man. To start with let me put forth this story. When I gained my senses and started liking music (early 1980s) I was some fan of Md Rafi (post death).. but sometime in 1984-85 I heard the song “Ghoongroo ki tarah, bajta hi raha hoon main”.. I was really bowled by the tune in “kabhi toot gaya, kabhi toda gaya, sau baar mujhe phir joda gaya…”… to be very frank I have not heard of anything better than this in my life (I never used to listen much to hindi songs prior to the 1980s..).
Then I started drawing comparisons between Rafi and Kishore… (You see most Bengali Brahmins have some sense of music in their genes, I happen to be one of them.).. I have a huge collection of songs of both Rafi and Kishore.. but after listening to them for some time.. the PURITY of Kishore’s VOICE simply overtakes the SO-CALLED CLASSICAL GENIUS of Rafi’s voice.
I like Rafi’s songs too.. (Shirdi wale Sai Baba is one that I like the most).. but the MOOD created by KISHORE-DA’s songs just RULE the world. You can associate MOODs very easily with KISHORE-DA’s songs. Just like when you feel sad you have (GAADI BULA RAHI HAI, RUK JAANA NAHIN, etc.) which helps you re-junivate and get activated. I don’t recollect any of Rafi’s songs that helps an individual feel the same.
Collectively though KISHORE-DA had sung far fewer songs than Rafi, these are incomparable GEMS, that rank far ahead in the HEARTS of PEOPLE than any other SINGER’s songs.
Hopefully I have put forth my views.. These are genuine views.. I think there will be a lot of other folks sharing similar kind of view.
If you want to figure out a KOHINOOR DIAMOND in the Hindi Playback Singing world, it has to be KISHORE-DA and no one else.
Thanks,
Partha.
September 16th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
partha chaterjee u seems to be fool if by ur going only the music changes with the generation than u are in a wrong blog u should be in himesh reshamiya blog coz u dont know anything .
i m also a die hard fan of rafi sahib and kishore da fan and 26 yrs old
u must listen to vivid bharti(radio)for about five years and than u are eligible for this kind of discussion otherwise u are wasting your time coz i can let u meet my 40-50 friends of 24-26 yrs who r die hard rafiaans.
rafi songs are like mothers lorry it is never overshadowed and cast a mindblowing effect on the music lovers of every age.
September 16th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
the guys who r comparing the phenomenons do this coz u will be prevented from doing a sin to music lover across the globe=
compare these u will be prevented from doing a sin to music lovers =
1. gavaskar vs kapil dev
2. dilip sahib vs shahrukh
3. vivian richards vs tendulkar
4. michael jackson vs madonna
5. ferrari vs bmw
6. sampras vs fedrer
7 mohammed ali vs mike tyson
8 dilip sahib vs big b
9. zeenat aman vs bipasha
10. mahatma ghandi vs jawaharlal nehru
11 subash chander bose vs bhagat singh
12 hitler vs stalin
13 gorbachov vs vladimir putin
14 elvis presley vs bob marley
15 indira ghandhi vs mother teresa
16. shane warne vs muttiah murlidharan
17 . steve waugh vs (his own brother)mark waugh
18 sonu nigam(a disciple of rafi sahib) vs kumar sanu( a disciple of kishore da)
19 kashmir vs switzerland
20 mirza galib vs amir khusroo
21 sahir ludhanavi vs anand bakshi
22 summers vs winters
23 A normal day vs rainy day
if u r done with comparing these properly than u can always have the privilege to listen to these legends but if u still go for comparision than i must admit these things
1. u r not indian citizen
2. no sense at all of music
3 enjoy listening to himesh reshmiya
4. u dont have ever listened to radio
5 u r a couch potato
6 u dont know what u r talking about
7 ur unemployeed and so do these kind of things
September 13th, 2007 at 9:39 am
Partha Chaterjee:
I know of Music lovers of age 25 and above who are great
fans of Mohd Rafi and of Vintage Music from the fifties to the
eighties. It makes the fourth generation of Music lovers who
love ” old hindi songs “. Some of them were not even born
when Mohd Rafi Saab died in 1980.. His songs sway the peoples
emotions in each mood and every mood. I would never compare
Kishore da with Mohd Rafi. They were class apart and greats.
If you miss this very valid point in the history of Indian Music then
your thinking become ” jaundiced ” and “sectarian”. Same with
some of the writers who write the same things - the whole year
around - like a overplayed and wornout song.
Please enjoy every type of Music and enrich your lives as one
swallow does not make the summer.
Binu Nair.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Fools never will learn ; they will take a few facts and leave
out the rest as its convenient for their views. Fools grow up.
Many facts taken together make the truth. Bunder kya jaane
adrak ka swaad.. or how buffaloes can appreciate classical
music…?
Fanatics in this world are many and their justifications are
foolish - but they feel they are the only right ones under the
sky.
God please give them intellect and have mercy on them.
Binu Nair
September 12th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Because of the great lyricists of the golden period of hindi
music and films : youngsters of today when they - ride to
adulthood, start getting the impact of such great words and
works.
In their thirties they start liking these great songs of the fifties
up to eighties. When they turn forty or above - they are bowled
over by these songs as their real life mirrors the great lyrics and
the tunes which are sober.
In short they begin to love the great works of any one or all
singers from k.l.saighal to talat mehmood and Mohd Rafi to
Kishore Kumar..
Binu Nair. The Rafi Foundation Bombay binus2000@gmail.com
September 5th, 2007 at 7:04 am
Most of the men who have similar-tango inside their trousers seem to like Rafi. There are some others who were close to being something similar, but unfortunately they got tangled in a different religion.
Kishore Kumar rules even today. The current generation will not sit back to listen to CLASSICAL stuff aaa-aaa-aaa-aaa. They would listen to PURE MAGIC, which can only be found in Kishore Kumar’s voice.
You go out today and carry out a poll, and then figure out where the balance is. Kishore Kumar will definitely have > 50% vote.. The rest will be split across the other various singers….
Thanks,
Partha.
September 2nd, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Out of triumvirate, Kishore, Mukesh and Rafi. Kishoreda was the most colourful singer. He sung romantic songs in such a way that there were nobody in film industry can compare with him durings 70’s and 80’s.
Though Lata, Md. Rafi, Mukesh were well trained singer and got many awards, they can sung all type of songs but there were some romantic songs which suits kishoreda most.
By the way he is lucky to get RD,SD, best tunes and trio combination is marvellous. The choice of new generation is kishoreda , ask any new gen why they like kishore most.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
COMPARE ANY TWO SONGS WHICH WERE SUNG BY KISHOREKUMAR AND ANY OTHER SINGER.THE KISHORE VERSION IS MOST POPULAR OUT OF THEM.EXAMPLE :MERE NAINA SAWAN BHADO ( LATA N KISHORE )
TUM BIN JAU KAHAN ( RAFI N KISHORE )
JISKA KOI NAHIN USKA TO ( MANNADEY N KISHORE )
EK CHATUR NAR (MANNADEY N KISHORE )
HAME TUMSE PYAR KITNA (PARVEEN SULTANA N KISHORE )
INA MINA DIKA ( ASHA N KISHORE )
IN ALL ABOVE MENATIONED SONGS U CANJ SEE THAT ALL THIS SONGS ARE IDENTIFIED AS SONGS OFK KISHORE KUMAR.
WHAT ELSE IS NEEDED TO SAY ABOUT HIS GREAT VOICE ?
August 24th, 2007 at 2:04 am
Rafi supports I am sorry to say rafi was beaten from all ends by kishore, history cannot be redone, Kishore outclassed Rafi in all singing departments and that is why Kishore was number one for 2 decades till his death. I am sure after reading this you cannot deny the fact. If you guys still want to argue then I am really sorry its like ” What does Monkey know a smell of Jasime”. God has made few people whose brains cannot think or understand beyond its limit.
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:25 am
Let’s end the thread here.Kishoreda is ofcourse the greatest singer,performer,comic hero and genius.Kishoreda is infinity times better and more popular than Rafi.
JAI KISHOREDA!!!
August 21st, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Dear friends,
I see this thread has run too long. there is No doubt that rafi sahab is the best singer ever, better than lata, kishore or asha…. people will have different tastes some will like kishore’s moti awaz, some don’t. but if u just look at singing talent and nothin else, rafi sahab is far superior. I love both rafi and kishore, what we all must cultivate is the habit of respecting the greats for thier contributions and not be blinded fanatics who are keen on praising thier favourite star by degrading others,.
let us put an end to this thread,
August 19th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
You have to compare the BEST of Rafi with BEST of KK NOT fix a duration viz 70,s or 80’s as BOND007 has mentioned.Undoubtedly Rafi was MUCH TOO superior in singing talents compared to KK.Songs like MAN RE TU KAAHE NA DHEER, AJHUN NA AAYE BAALMAA, MADHUBAN MEIN RAAGHIKAA, KOI SAAGAR DILKO, DIN DHAL JAAYE, TERE MERE SAPNE , BAAR BAAR DEKHO, SAR JO TERAA CHAKRAAYE, JAHAAN DAAL DAAL PAR, & innumerable others are far too outstanding for any comparison with any KK song. ONLY MUSIC LOVERS CAN UNDERSTAND & APPRECIATE these facts not casual listeners
August 18th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
See guys lets see in this sense … few have said that “this music director chose Rafi or that music director chose Kishore. All that is fine
BUT
Nobody was there at that time to tell the real facts, may be if I would have been great director or an actor I would comment that Rafi was good, Kishore was best and so on
BUT
The ultimate truth is Kishore hit SIXER after SIXER to all corners of the boundary and there was no answer for Rafi. He was just a spectator.
At least you guys cannot deny this. He was UNO in 70s and 80s.
August 18th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
KK was an all round performer but not a versatile singer.He admittedly could not do justice to BHAJANS, GHAZALS, CLASSICAL based songs, QAWWALIES, PATRIOTIC SONGS etc but Rafi was outstanding in all .Rafi was & shall remain the only master versatile singer of all times.He would not have been eclipsed by KK had his voice strength & quality not deteriorated in late sixties due to ill health.He had a perfect sweet voice which retained its quality within all the octaves without becoming NASAL (Like Mukesh) or hoarse & cacophonous like KK.He had an ideal INDIAN YOUTHFUL voice unlike others who sounded aged or like elderly Fakirs.He could sing every style of Film song with perfection,ease and control whether it be MASTI, SAD, PHILOSOPHY, BHAJAN, GHAZAL (He even matched the legendary Begum Akhtar in a Khayyam-Ghalib album), CLASSICAL based, QAWWALI, PATRIOTIC, COMEDY, DANCE based, FOLK, FESTIVAL songs, WEDDING songs etc.His voice had perfect melody, sweetness, throw, modulation, feelings, soulfulness, strength, range, devotion, Adaakaari etc. Only people with superficial interest in music or outright bias have preferred KK over Rafi Sahab
August 15th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Why do foolish people waste their time comparing a lotus and a rose? Don’t both the flowers have their own individual beauty and charm?