An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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June 15th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Sanjay:
Since you are UNDOUBTEDLY the most informed and music-aware KK fan here, I will only restrict my answers to your points. The others are just noise.
“Agreed, those are not the best traits for a romantic number. Kishore Kumar had a versatile voice that he could modulate very well. When needed, his voice was smooth and mellow. Case in point: “Yeh Raate Yeh Mausam” (one of greatest displays of voice for me – mellow yet powerful at the same time) from Dilli Ka Thug and “Ek Ladki…Milli Ek Ajnabise” from Chalti Naam Ka Gaadi are two great romantic songs that rank with the very best. No list of romantic songs is complete without these two. Clearly, Kishore does NOT fail.”
—I just loved Kishore of the 1950s and early 60s. The two songs you mentioned are from that period. I really think if I had to love Kishore’s voice, I would pick 1950-1960s from Paying Guest to Door Ka Rahi. Incidently and paradoxically, when KK started shooting to fame his voice started having the “enforced heroism”, accentuated by affected pronunciation that took away the softness from songs. Take “Mere dildaar ka bakhpan” for example, the song which we have discussed about. Kishore sings it like (notice the spelling):
“Merre dildhhaar kha bakhhpan”–It is affected. I never liked his pronouncing “r” as “rrr” or “z” as “zzzz”, something that was clearly absent in the Kishore of the 50s.
The other point about the song, if you have watched the video, is that KK’s voice is totally disconnected from Jeetendra’s voice. Replace Jeetendra with Bacchan or Balraj Sahni, you will get the same tone. Rafi does try to be Rishi in that song (but as I said, I expected better). Rafi can never emulate Bacchan. But he makes an effort to modulate according to the actor and situation.
In the 1970s KK did sing some soft numbers such as “Chookar Mere manko”. But as I mentioned in earlier posts, none of these were sung in natural voice. Just as Rafi’s natural voice was not masculine, KK’s natural voice ws not sweet. In the 1970s whenever he sang sweetly, it had to be in falsetto (which is never appreciated by hardcore musicians). Abhijeet has picked up the trend and 100% of Abhijeet’s songs are sung in falsetto, though they may sound sweet to the ears.
As you have admitted going through my list, there are a good number of songs where Rafi would edge Kishore (and I admit there are a good number of songs where KK would sound better). And thanks for acknowldeging the tonal quality of Rafi in those songs. These are great singers-they can do whatever they like..It is just a matter of what is the natural style..Rafi’s strongest point as I said was NOT HIS VOICE. It was his ability to render a mood/situation by shortening or lengthening the words, stressing on letters and maatras..As Lataji rightly pointed out, “his harkatein and taan” were inimitable. That’s why Manna could not be Rafi. That’s why Sonu Nigam can try for the rest of his life but would never leave the mark as Rafi. When Rafi sang “Nafrat Ki duniya”, the whole theatre cried with him. When he sang “Badi door se”, the entire theatre had the feeling of a stranger in a unknown country.
There is merit in this debate because Kishore did have the effect to scale the heights that Rafi reached. But it is pointless in some ways, because it really depends on which NATURAL style you want. To my ears, Rafi’s style (again NOT ONLY VOICE) was superior.
Anyway, since you have a good ear and to me someone who is destined to be a Rafi fan with age (just like me and many others), let me recommend some numbers for you.
1. Haseen dilruba (Roop tera mastana)-the most seductive male number of the 1970s. Unfortunately, this gem got submerged in the Kishore wave of 1972-73.
2. Aap ki haseen rukh pe aaj naya noor hai- you must have heard this one. Great tonal quality.
3. Kahin ek masoom nazook si ladki (Shankar Hussain)- If I were a music director, I would re-release the song today, so that people know what they missed out on . This ABSOLUTE GEM did not get its due, despite being one of the MOST ROMANTIC NUMBERS OF THE CENTURY. It is sad. It is unfortunate.. But should not take away the credit from the singer.
Finally, to all those who mentioned “Khaike Paan banaraswala”…If you want to distinguish between popular song and good folk song, listen to another Bhojpuri-“Nain lad jai we” (Ganaga Jumna). The first one is popular, and the second one is authentic Bhojpuri.
——————-
June 15th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Sanjay:
Since you are UNDOUBTEDLY the most informed and music-aware KK fan here, I will only restrict my answers to your points. The others are just noise.
“Agreed, those are not the best traits for a romantic number. Kishore Kumar had a versatile voice that he could modulate very well. When needed, his voice was smooth and mellow. Case in point: “Yeh Raate Yeh Mausam” (one of greatest displays of voice for me – mellow yet powerful at the same time) from Dilli Ka Thug and “Ek Ladki…Milli Ek Ajnabise” from Chalti Naam Ka Gaadi are two great romantic songs that rank with the very best. No list of romantic songs is complete without these two. Clearly, Kishore does NOT fail.”
—I just loved Kishore of the 1950s and early 60s. The two songs you mentioned are from that period. I really think if I had to love Kishore’s voice, I would pick 1950-1960s from Paying Guest to Door Ka Rahi. Incidently and paradoxically, when KK started shooting to fame his voice started having the “enforced heroism” accentuated by affected pronunciation that took away the softness from songs. Take “Mere dildaar ka bakhpan” for example, the song which we have discussed about. Kishore sings it like (notice the spelling):
“Merre dildhhaar kha bakhhpan”–It is affected. I never liked his pronouncing “r” as “rrr” or “z” as “zzzz”, something that was clearly absent in the Kishore of the 50s.
The other point about the song, if you have watched the video, is that KK’s voice is totally disconnected from Jeetendra’s voice. Replace Jeetendra with Bacchan or Balraj Sahni, you will get the same tone. Rafi does try to be Rishi in that song (but as I said, I expected better). Rafi can never emulate Bacchan. But he makes an effort to modulate according to the actor and situation.
In the 1970s KK did sing some soft numbers such as “Chookar Mere manko”. But as I mentioned in earlier posts, none of these were sung in natural voice. Just as Rafi’s natural voice was not masculine, KK’s natural voice ws not sweet. In the 1970s whenever he sang sweetly, it had to be in falsetto (which is never appreciated by hardcore musicians). Abhijeet has picked up the trend and 100% of Abhijeet’s songs are sung in falsetto, though they may sound sweet to the ears.
As you have admitted going through my list, there are a good number of songs where Rafi would edge Kishore (and I admit there are a good number of songs where KK would sound better). And thanks for acknowldeging the tonal quality of Rafi in those songs. These are great singers-they can do whatever they like..It is just a matter of what is the natural style..Rafi’s strongest point as I said was NOT HIS VOICE. It was his ability to render a mood/situation by shortening or lengthening the words, stressing on letters and maatras..As rightly pointed out “his harkatein and taan” were inimitable. That’s why Manna could not be Rafi. That’s why Sonu Nigam can try for the rest of his life but would never leave the mark as Rafi. When Rafi sang “Nafrat Ki duniya” the whole theatre cried with him. When he sang “Badi door se” the entire theatre had the feeling of a stranger in a unknown country.
There is merit in this debate because Kishore did have the effect to scale the heights that Rafi reached. But it is pointless in some ways because it really depends on which NATURAL style you want. To my ears Rafi’s style (again NOT ONLY VOICE) was superior.
Anyway, since you have a good ear and to me someone who is detined to be a Rafi fan with age (just like me and many others), let me recommend some numbers for you.
1. Haseen dilruba (Roop tera mastana)-the most seductive male number of the 1970s. Unfortunately, this gem got submerged in the Kishore wave of 1972-73.
2. Aap ki haseen rukh pe aaj naya noor hai- you must have heard this one. Great tonal quality.
3. Kahin ek masoom nazook si ladki (Shankar Hussain)- If I were a music director, I would re-release the song today, so that people know what they missed out on . This ABSOLUTE GEM did not get its due, despite being one of the MOST ROMANTIC NUMBERS OF THE CENTURY. It is sad. It is unfortunate.. But should not take away the credit from the singer.
Finally, to all those who mentioned “Khaike Paan banaraswala”…If you want to distinguish between popular song and good folk song listen to “Nain lad jai we” (Ganaga Jumna). The first one is popular and the second one is authentic.
——————-
June 15th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
Dear Sanjay,
I went quickly through your recent posts and feel bad that I reacted rather quickly to one of your earlier posts regarding rock ‘n roll music. You are a very knowledgabe KK fan and I have the utmost respect for such people. And I agree that Kishore could have been used much more often than he was in the 50s and the 60s.
There’s one point I’d like to make, though. I think you guys are making too much of songs like “Khaike pan banaras-wala”. Someone on this forum had remarked earlier that this is the best folk song ever. The popularity of this song may have more to do with the fact that Amitabh sang it for a hit film. Kishore has so many other songs that are infinitely better than “Khaike pan”. Folk music is not Kishore’s forte; he may have sung a few good folksy songs, but the real players there are Lata, Manna, Rafi and Mukesh (of course, I’m ignoring regional singers like Nirmalendu Choudhury who was simply superb).
The younger generation does not watch Dilip Kumar, that’s why I guess they are not aware of “Nain Lad Jai Hain”, the gem Rafi sang for him in Gunga Jumna. It’s one of my favourite Naushad compositions. Listen to Rafi’s Bhojpuri enunciation and the force with which he sang. You’ll have to concede that Rafi had a 7-year disadvantage when it came to Amitabh and those seven years could have further tilted the popularity scale in his favour had he been alive. Surely, if Munna Aziz and Shabbir Kumar could have got so many songs in the 80s (including RD’s), Rafi would have grabbed many more. Don’t you agree?
Finally, I would like to know your views on “Khaike pan” vis-a-vis the eternal favourite from Shree 420: “Ramaiya Vastavaiya”.
June 15th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
>>>Agreed, those are not the best traits for a romantic number. Kishore Kumar had a versatile voice that he could modulate very well. When needed, his voice was smooth and mellow. Case in point: “Yeh Raate Yeh Mausam” (one of greatest displays of voice for me – mellow yet powerful at the same time) from Dilli Ka Thug and “Ek Ladki…Milli Ek Ajnabise” from Chalti Naam Ka Gaadi are two great romantic songs that rank with the very best. No list of romantic songs is complete without these two. Clearly, Kishore does NOT fail.
Kishore does not fail but its a total mistake comparing him with Rafi in any genre. What modulation are you talking about ?. Could he sound like any actor he playbacked for with the exception of Dev and Rajesh Khanna. Kishore did not have a versatile voice, if he did his career would have taken off much before 1970.
>>>You are much more knowledgeable with music than I am but I’ll dare to say you made a mistake, a mistake that many fans make. The style and values of music were greatly different in 1950s (romantic) than in 1970s (action). You can’t take 1970s Kishore and send him to 1950s romantic era – he’d be out of phase with his traits. He was powerful and resounding to cater to the 1970s but he’d make his voice mellow and smooth to cater to the different values of the 1950s (he sort of did that in the classic song Aane Wala Pal 1979 – how do you describe his voice here?). 1950s Kishore would and DID deliver romantic numbers. This leads to the question, “Why did he struggle in the 1950s then?”
He struggled because he simply could not sing any type of song. The music in the 50’s and 60’s was much richer in terms of compositions, MD’s etc. compared to the 70’s. The majority did not want to take a chance with Kishore and that is understandable. Who is taking Kishore of the 70’s and sending him to the 50’s ?.
>>>Music in the 1950s much more science and less art and so not surprisingly classical training was highly emphasized. MDs overlooked Kishore’s artistic traits – which would be fine except for one thing.
Less art ?. I don’t know what you mean by that, it was quite a creative period.
>>>This also meant that the MDs overlooked his intrinsic, superior voice and they missed big (they were VERY LUCKY to have another great singer in Rafi to COVER that great miss but this is not my point as I will elaborate later).
Not really, they didn’t miss anything at all because Kishore did not have the range nor the voice to sing the majority types of songs. Yes, Rafi was there and in that sense they were very lucky.
>>>A daring statement I know but I back it with the notion that the great SD Burman later ‘corrected’ his mistake by balancing more equally between Rafi & Kishore.
Do you know whay he did that ?. First of all Kishore became popular so he catered to him, secondly both him and RD felt that since KK had lost out in the 50’s and 60’s, here was a chance for him to get many songs. If you haven’t noticed, compositions in the 70’s were not as difficult as in the 50’s or 60’s. Kishore restricted SDB’s compositional range but SD noticed that in the 70’s he didn’t have to compose songs like those in the 50’s and 60’s, the 70’s was a different period. If at all there was a miss, it was SDB-Rafi in the 70’s.
>>>In the 1970s he used Kishore Kumar much more and it wasn’t entirely just because the producers demanded Kishore during the wave. It wasn’t just because the values of music had shifted to Kishore’s forte. It was also becusse there was no longer a prejudice.
Not really, it had alot to do with what you mentioned. Kishore wanted to go back home in 1967, RD told him to stay back. Without the Burmans, I think things would be different.
>>>MDs turned down KK in the 1950s because they were prejudiced against him since he didn’t have classical background and this caused them to miss big. I’ll bet that they’d prefer a singer with an average voice but decent classical training over Kishore Kumar (I oppose this). Yes the former was more functional but clearly the latter has magic in his voice and voice is most important in a singer.
What magic are you talking about ?. For this very reason, lack of is why MD’s did not go to him. He was very much there from the late forties, there was no prejudiced against him, its just that he wasn’t considered even a second rate singer at that time. I don’t think making up excuses is going to get us anywhere.
>>>Yes, guys like Raj Kapoor or Shammi Kapoor or Dev Anand were not musical authorities like the MDs but they did have great responsibility and have to oversee the music for movies. These guys were just as important and influential as the MDs – Shankar Jaikishan made it big because of Raj Kapoor and Shammi Kapoor could veto tunes and singers.
S-J made it big because of their musical talent, intitally RK helped them, but after that their music sold, without the help of anyone.
I emphasize this because a big player in the 50s – Dev Anand was able to appreciate KK’s genius. He didn’t have the bias of MDs since he was’t a scientist of music – he was a natural lover of music and with that kind of free spirit – one cannot overlook the fresh voice of KK (btw – I hate Dev Anand – he doesn’t give credit to Rafi and he can keep dreaming of being able to sound like KK).
It was SDB who fixed KK on Dev right from before, and Dev and KK were also good friends so its understandable. Yet KK would not have been able to sing the classics Rafi sang for Dev. Even SDB knew this which is why the cream of Dev came with Rafi.
>>>Same goes for Rajesh Khanna and music lovers of the 70s – when that bias for science over art was lifted, KK prospered.
Times changed, KK got a break, no bias here.
My point is that Kishore could have sung many (NOT all) of the romantic numbers that Rafi sang and he’d sing them in the “romantic style” soft & mellow with his versatile voice.
Totally disagree, Kishore did not have a quarter of the voice Rafi had. He was good in his own way, but not a versatile voice able to cover many genres as well as modulate for every actor.
>>>He just wasn’t given the opportunity due to bias rather than ability and this was revealed in hindsight.
Kalyanji made the comment, that KK was not suited for the 50’s and 60’s. Take Rafi, he was suited for any decade, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.
>>>Now I’m trying trying to emphasize what KK COULD have done since he ALREADY DID do plenty in the 1950s. He has plenty of romantic numbers like the one I described above. Absolute gems. He showed ability for romantic songs and should have been given more gems.
Yes he should have been given more gems, but MD’s knew his weaknesses and did not take him for the majority of their numbers. Unless you’re saying MD’s did not know what they were doing back then.
>>>I respect those guys as singers but the are not anywhere in the league of Rafi and Kishore for MY LIKING. I personally like Rafi’s qawwali’s much more than Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan simply because of his superior voice. Same with Rafi over Manna Dey. And the same with Kishore Kumar over anyone. The key difference though, and this is my big point, is that Kishore Kumar could sing soft if needed like Rafi, and he could sing powerful and resounding too. Mohd Rafi and the other sings could sing soft, could sing moderate and not so soft, but NO ONE could reach the energy and RESOUNDING and BOOMING voice of Kishore Kumar.
This Booming and Resounding effect is personal, I can list many songs where Rafi could sound like that. Sounding Booming and Resounding is my opinion does not make a singer great. Kishore did not have as meledious nor as sweet a voice as Rafi so maybe he had to sing like that in order to make up for it. To me that’s just loud, and not what singing is about.
>>>It did NOT go both ways for other singers but it did for KK – that is why I rate his voice above others. That isw hat sets KK apart from the rest. We’ll probably elaborate more on this with analysis of songs.
It went ALL ways for Rafi, he could sing softly, with punch, melediously, any type of voice and Rafi is there.
>>>I think fans are wrong to say Kishore couldn’t sing sweet and melodious. He could and those two songs I listed are a great example. “Mere Samne Wali Kirdki” was also a romantic number sung with a crisp, clean, soft yet not too soft that it doesn’t have a strong enunciated tone (sounds contradictory I know). That is what I call a voice. There IS middle ground with Kishore Kumar. Fans make the mistake of generalizing KK’s voice – it was too versatile to be generalized.
No one is saying he could not sing romantic songs. For me Kishore is not middle ground. For me his voice was good but not as sweet and clear as Rafi, definitely not versatile, his bass could not cover up the other facets that his voice did not have.
>>>On the other hand, Rafi could not reach deep baritone or that kind of power (unless he shifts to a very high pitch but that is something different).
I think you haven’t listened to a lot of Rafi songs to be making such comments. Rafi has many songs in deep baritone.
>>>This is why KK wins. You have pointed out the heart of the debate and here I say it tilts to Kishore. Kishore’s voice had it ALL.
Not really but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If his voice had it all, he would not have to wait 20 + years for a break. Ofcourse we have been hearing excuses as to why this did not happen.
Kishore was a good singer within his own range, but the problem is comparing him with Rafi, they are two poles apart.
June 15th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Shridip,
>>>If the classical music training and knowledge are important in film songs, most of the songs were sung by Pt. Jasraj, Bhimsen Joshi etc. Nobody remembers Md. Rafi today.
Really, which is why he was judged at the best male singer by a group of musicians including your Kishore clones. He is very popular around the world, his popularity increases day by day, unless you have facts to back your arguments, don’t write such pathetic comments.
>>>The songs which touches the heart of people are considered the best. Kishorda is far better than Rafi in this manner. His voice contained heroism itself, nomatter for whom he was plybacking.
This is purely subjective.
>>>If Kishorda has started his fulfledged career earlier even Rajendra kumar or Shammi kapoor etc. could touch the heights of Amitabh bacchan and Rajesh Khanna.
What’s with this Rajesh K and Amitabh superstardom ?. Because Kishore sang the majority for them it doesn’t prove anything. You actually want to think that Kishore would have added the same dimension to Rajendra K or Shammi that Rafi did ?. This is outright hilarious.
>>>Our modern filmy music is the gift of tradition Kishorda has set. I can say that singers like Amit Kumar, Kumar Sanu, Abhijeet are following the tradition of Kishorda.
LOL modern film music was brought in with the likes of S-J, definitely not Kishore. Amit Kumar, Abhijeet and Kumar Sanu are nothing special.
>>>Udit narayan, Sonu Nigam etc. have voice tone like Md. Rafi but they also are following the tradition of Kishorda only.
Please tell me you don’t really mean this because if you do, there is no point in taking this discussion further.
>>>Md. Rafi has not set any tradition. He was singing filmy songs in a classical tradition. He was neither the best classical singer nor best filmy singer.
Really, which is why he dominated the field for such a long time, which is why he sang in each and every possible genre, both things Kishore could not do. So now who do you think was the best ?. Your argument for classical tradition holds no ground as it doesn’t even relate to what you’re talking about. Btw Rafi set the benchmark of playback singing and took the art to such a high level, if that’s not a tradtion then nothing by anyone else is.
>>>Why Md. Rafi was so famous and considered as a legend? Because he was a “Ujjad gamma erando pradhan” in starting of the Indian film industry. This Gujarati proverb means - In the area where no trees or vegetation are there, people find even the ‘erando (Not so usefull tree)’ as the best.
Really, so with the likes of Mukesh, Talat, Hemant, Manna etc. there was no one around ?. Its no wonder you dislike classical singing, because Kishore had no classical training at all and even if he did he still would not have reached Rafi’s standards.
>>>I truly believe that those music directors or singers who every time raise the flags of classical singing in filmy songs are super ficious.
Really, why so ?.
>>>If we put them in classical music industry (having great personalities like Hariprasad Chorasiya, Shiv Kumar Sharma, Zakir Husain etc.) they will be prooven as rejected pieces of trash.
Who says we would like to put them in that category ?. Same with putting those classical specialists in film music, they will be rejected a thousand times more. What’s your point here ?
>>>So stop commenting that Rafi has greater music knowledge and greater voice quality. His voice is like a dove. Ghu, ghu…..
Why is it too hard to accept the truth ?. You can go on and on about Kishore, but whatever silly arguments you come out with won’t change the fact that Rafi was the benchmark, the supreme. Btw Rafi did have greater voice quality and greater music knowlegde.
June 15th, 2007 at 10:41 am
So, as people are making allegations that bengali people like kishore, as he is a “bengali”, I see some “muslims” are fighting for Rafi. Is it just a coincidence? Go to your “Rafi website” and show the affection.
June 15th, 2007 at 8:07 am
Perhaps later I will better clarify what I mean by ‘fuzzy.’ not now
June 15th, 2007 at 8:06 am
Now I realize that my saying some Rafi classics could be better rendered by KK is heretic. That heresy is two sided. A watershed song for KK was indeed “Mere Sapano Ki Rani” (coincidentally, Rafi sang a song of the same title with KL Saigal). It was actually meant for Rafi and it isn’t a stretch for some Rafi fans to argue (heretically) that the Rafi version would have been superior. Some have committed the heresy of choosing Rafi’s version of Zindagi Ek Safar Hai Suhana - I don’t hold it against them - you really can’t go wrong either way.
I’ve said many times that Rafi’s voice could get too soft and therefore fuzzy. When you sing at a low pitch, the frequency is lower so the wavelength is greater and therefore the resolution (detail clarity of voice) can suffer. I do believe that if Rafi recorded with today’s technology, I probably would not have made those complaints.
Listen to Dard E Dil: my golden collection version is 7:03 long. Listen to his voice at 2:53 when he sings “kur” rahi hai shayari. The way his voice sounds when he sings “kur.” It sounds worn (although many 1980 Rafi songs where his voice is par excellent - John Johnny Janardhan comes immediately to mind - no one could have sung that song better than Rafi). He probably deliberately did it. I wonder why, I’m just curious. Perhaps an artistic decision. Maybe I’m looking into it too microscopically.
btw…i revise my review of
Main nigahen tere chehre se hatayoon
He doesn’t sound fuzzy at any moment, just very soft. Silly me.
June 15th, 2007 at 5:10 am
“He never would say : give this song to xyz.. since I cannot sing it….. u know why I am saying this…here..”
>>> Kishore Kumar understood that some songs are better suited for a specific singer. Just as Rafi could not sing AS WELL as Kishore the song “Khaike Pan Banaraswala” (now I know that this song isn’t musically elegant but what’s more important is how Kishore can take such a song like that and make it a classic with his energy), there are some Rafi songs that Kishore could not sing AS well (vice versa). You should not take a jab at Kishore like this when he is being considerate, when he is being human, is being humble and respectful of Mohd Rafi.
The producers and distributors would always
dictate terms to the composers. They would say : We want
Rafi saab as the male play-back. , they knew the saleability
and the long term shelf life of RAFI songs… this went on for
almost three decades in the hindi film industry….
>>> The same can be said for Kishore Kumar in the 70s and 80s.
Secondly, the song Mana re tu kahe na dheer dhare .. is voted
by eminent new and yore music personalities as the best Hindi
song of the last 50 years in an OUTLOOK SURVEY last year….
More , the songs : Mana tadapat…, to Ganga ki mauj…
Bhagwaan… Oh duniya ke rakhwale…. and many other are
pure gems : and if any singer on this earth can sing these :
in RAFI-isque style, with emotions, feelings, diction, and everything
else included then I will bet and lose my - last penny….
More, Mohd Rafi-Lata has been voted the best singers of last
century by the Times of India Publications - survey….
So your lords voice tenor does not merit any discussion …and does
not hold water…
>>> Binuji – I don’t need an Outlook Survey to tell me, and millions of free spirited music lovers what to like and what not to like. I don’t need to read a newspaper to know who the top singer is. Music is free for all – a fan’s opinion – be it of any fan (devoid of ignorance) is just as great as another’s. Those reviews mean little to me and I could counter your reviews, I am sure, with many that have Kishore Kumar as the voice of the millennium.
Kishore Kumar’s unmatched energy is a big deal. It is that energy that makes him so popular among the youth (not just RDB’s type of music). Lots of energy and vigor is something that can be immediately and naturally be recognized by anyone – even a child who doesn’t know the language. KK is unmatched in that kind of energy and power and that is why he is so popular today.
Btw – as great of a singer Mohd Rafi was, he needed composers to make the most of his abilities (and vice versa). Remember, a great reason (not the greatest) for Rafi’s decline was that his MDs declined – Jaikishan’s death was a big blow to him. RDB took the lead and he shunned Rafi (to be different, not out of hostility or prejudice).
Part of being a great fan is accepting a singer being human. I am happy with Kishore Kumar for all his ups and downs. If I try to repaint the picture and artificially improve him, he is no longer Kishore Kumar and that is ultimate disrespect.
June 15th, 2007 at 4:46 am
1. “To me romantic and sad songs are NOT meant to be “POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING” and that is where Kishore fails. It can create superhits but does not capture the mellow and closeness that is so necessary in romance.”
Agreed, those are not the best traits for a romantic number. Kishore Kumar had a versatile voice that he could modulate very well. When needed, his voice was smooth and mellow. Case in point: “Yeh Raate Yeh Mausam” (one of greatest displays of voice for me – mellow yet powerful at the same time) from Dilli Ka Thug and “Ek Ladki…Milli Ek Ajnabise” from Chalti Naam Ka Gaadi are two great romantic songs that rank with the very best. No list of romantic songs is complete without these two. Clearly, Kishore does NOT fail.
You are much more knowledgeable with music than I am but I’ll dare to say you made a mistake, a mistake that many fans make. The style and values of music were greatly different in 1950s (romantic) than in 1970s (action). You can’t take 1970s Kishore and send him to 1950s romantic era – he’d be out of phase with his traits. He was powerful and resounding to cater to the 1970s but he’d make his voice mellow and smooth to cater to the different values of the 1950s (he sort of did that in the classic song Aane Wala Pal 1979 – how do you describe his voice here?). 1950s Kishore would and DID deliver romantic numbers. This leads to the question, “Why did he struggle in the 1950s then?”
Music in the 1950s much more science and less art and so not surprisingly classical training was highly emphasized. MDs overlooked Kishore’s artistic traits – which would be fine except for one thing. This also meant that the MDs overlooked his intrinsic, superior voice and they missed big (they were VERY LUCKY to have another great singer in Rafi to COVER that great miss but this is not my point as I will elaborate later).
A daring statement I know but I back it with the notion that the great SD Burman later ‘corrected’ his mistake by balancing more equally between Rafi & Kishore. In the 1970s he used Kishore Kumar much more and it wasn’t entirely just because the producers demanded Kishore during the wave. It wasn’t just because the values of music had shifted to Kishore’s forte. It was also becusse there was no longer a prejudice. MDs turned down KK in the 1950s because they were prejudiced against him since he didn’t have classical background and this caused them to miss big. I’ll bet that they’d prefer a singer with an average voice but decent classical training over Kishore Kumar (I oppose this). Yes the former was more functional but clearly the latter has magic in his voice and voice is most important in a singer.
Yes, guys like Raj Kapoor or Shammi Kapoor or Dev Anand were not musical authorities like the MDs but they did have great responsibility and have to oversee the music for movies. These guys were just as important and influential as the MDs – Shankar Jaikishan made it big because of Raj Kapoor and Shammi Kapoor could veto tunes and singers. I emphasize this because a big player in the 50s – Dev Anand was able to appreciate KK’s genius. He didn’t have the bias of MDs since he was’t a scientist of music – he was a natural lover of music and with that kind of free spirit – one cannot overlook the fresh voice of KK (btw – I hate Dev Anand – he doesn’t give credit to Rafi and he can keep dreaming of being able to sound like KK). Same goes for Rajesh Khanna and music lovers of the 70s – when that bias for science over art was lifted, KK prospered. My point is that Kishore could have sung many (NOT all) of the romantic numbers that Rafi sang and he’d sing them in the “romantic style” soft & mellow with his versatile voice. He just wasn’t given the opportunity due to bias rather than ability and this was revealed in hindsight. Now I’m trying trying to emphasize what KK COULD have done since he ALREADY DID do plenty in the 1950s. He has plenty of romantic numbers like the one I described above. Absolute gems. He showed ability for romantic songs and should have been given more gems.
2. “If you really talk of melody and barritone voice talk of Hemant Kumar (or Hemanta Mukherjee) or Mehdi Hasan. They are deep but not out of melody.
If you go by the “masculine, barritone” yardstick, then Talat Mehmood is no singer at all. I am surprised why he is called “King of Ghazals”. In the same yardstick Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan is crap! Rahat Fateh Ali Khan is a novice!”
I respect those guys as singers but the are not anywhere in the league of Rafi and Kishore for MY LIKING. I personally like Rafi’s qawwali’s much more than Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan simply because of his superior voice. Same with Rafi over Manna Dey. And the same with Kishore Kumar over anyone. The key difference though, and this is my big point, is that Kishore Kumar could sing soft if needed like Rafi, and he could sing powerful and resounding too. Mohd Rafi and the other sings could sing soft, could sing moderate and not so soft, but NO ONE could reach the energy and RESOUNDING and BOOMING voice of Kishore Kumar. It did NOT go both ways for other singers but it did for KK – that is why I rate his voice above others. That isw hat sets KK apart from the rest. We’ll probably elaborate more on this with analysis of songs.
3. “I think this debate is never going to end. Simply because, if you love deep, barritone voice you got to love Kishore and hate Rafi. If you love sweet, melodious voice you got to love Rafi and dislike Kishore.. There is no middle ground.”
I think fans are wrong to say Kishore couldn’t sing sweet and melodious. He could and those two songs I listed are a great example. “Mere Samne Wali Kirdki” was also a romantic number sung with a crisp, clean, soft yet not too soft that it doesn’t have a strong enunciated tone (sounds contradictory I know). That is what I call a voice. There IS middle ground with Kishore Kumar. Fans make the mistake of generalizing KK’s voice – it was too versatile to be generalized. On the other hand, Rafi could not reach deep baritone or that kind of power (unless he shifts to a very high pitch but that is something different). This is why KK wins. You have pointed out the heart of the debate and here I say it tilts to Kishore. Kishore’s voice had it ALL.
A. Kabhi Khud pe
Nope, I don’t see strong tonal strength here. Voice sounds kind of fuzzy. However, I think it has more to do with poor quality of recording and the MD’s directions (they told him to sing soft).
B. “Suhani Raat Dhal Chuki (it is amazing that this tonal quality was demonstrated in 1949, when instrumental aid was non-existent)”
I agree. Rafi shows great tonal ability here. Amazing! While I keep emphasized powerful and booming – that has limitations too (unless you’re KK). Rafi was one of the few whose voice was just right. I greatly enjoyed this song.
C. Jab Mohabbat Jawan Hota hai
Good, strong tone here. Really enjoyed the song too. I have to question the recording equipment. I still think that had KK sung this one, his inflections wouldn’t be as great as Rafi’s. His deeper voice would result in a slightly better enunciation of the words. Both versions would be gems.
D. Main nigahen tere chehre se hatayoon kaise
I notice moments in the song where Rafi goes to high pitch and then quickly shifts down. Asha Bhosle cited this as his greatest trait. I don’t think KK would have been able to sing this song exactly like Rafi with that kind of effortless scaling or level of inflection. However, I do think Rafi’s voice gets too soft sometimes and as a result that appears fuzzy. Maybe the obviously poor recording equipment didn’t do justice but KK wouldn’t have that issue for me of fuzziness for me. When Rafi sings “Nigahen” it is too soft for me sometimes.
E. “Aapne yaad dilaya to mujhe yaad aaya”
AMAZING SONG! THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE SONG! HIS VOICE HERE IS AMAZING. This is what I call TONAL STRENGTH and VOICE QUALITY and ENUNCIATION. I think the biggest issue is my personal preference against MDs preference for soft voice. I really liked this one.
“Now let me give you 5 more songs that will just sound HORRIBLE and HOARSE in “”POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING” voice.”
Aha! Who says Kishore was capable of ONLY powerful, resounding? He could sing it mellow too with his versatile voice. Don’t generalize his voice! However, I think that Mohd Rafi’s voice was the most melodious of all male singers.
A. “Abhi na jao chod kar”
I think the Kishore Kumar of 1979 who sang “Aane Wala Pal” or the songs from the 1950s would be able to sing this song very well. I’m not certain it’d be better than Rafi’s version, but he’d still do a great rendering of this song. He would sound FAR from horrible.
B. “Door rehkar na karo baat”
This was a pretty loud and booming song if you ask me. I can’t tell if it is the recording equipment that screwed up some parts and made it sound fuzzy or if the voice got too soft at points (low frequency and so the resolution decreases i.e. reduced clarity of words). Great – sung well by Rafi, but I think Kishore’s superior voice would have been even better for this song. I’ll say millions of fans would agree with me as would RD Burman. Only problem is, there are moments in the song where KK cannot match the high pitch. Rafi’s scale was amazing.
B. “Thehriye hosh mein aa loon to chale jayega”
This song would sound great in Kishore’s CRISP, CLEAN, TONED, and romantic voice. The singer that sang for Dilli Ka Thug would do this song full justice. A little modifications would have to be made for Kishore to optimize him, but he could sing this song very well. His voice is amazing. I’m imagining this song in Kishore’s voice (NOT 1970s Kishore – not rough or too deep Kishore – that’d sound horrible – 1950s Kishore). It amazes me how biased MDs were to overlook such a great voice.
D. “Tum se kahoon ek baat”
Agreed. NO ONE could have sung this song better than Rafi. BRILLIANTLY sung. His voice sounds amazing here. Thanks for this great gem.
E. “Aaja tujhko pukare mera pyar”
Another amazing gem. KK could not have sung this song as well as Rafi – and this song was from late 60s I think when KK was catching up to Rafi. Great inflections here – few could match it. What a voice!
You might as well have added “Din Dhal Jaye.” Agree with SD, no one could have sang that gem better than Rafi Sahab. Amazing. One of the most brilliantly rendered songs ever.
“You will always find some odd Rafi songs because Rafi was given all kinds of songs while MDs protected KK within his comfort zone.”
I agree. Rafi was the most capapble singer of all. As mentioned before, Kalyanji-Anandji said that Rafi was the only singer for whom they never even considered IF he could sing the song they were composing.
“It is interesting that you find Rafi strained while all MDs ranging from Naushad to A.R Rahman feels otherwise (effortless scaling). Of the current day music directors, Rahman, Shantanu Moitra, Ismail and Vishal Sekhar swear by Rafi.”
I must have poorly expressed myself. I don’t question Rafi’s scaling ability – that’d be utterly stupid. However, when you do go to an extremely high pitch (the 5th Rakhwale on the live version of that gem), you’re not at ease and it is will show. Perhaps by strained I flet that his throat was kind of dry there in some parts of a song (no kidding, a glass of water would have helped). Don’t mean to sound disrespectful to the great Mohd Rafi. Sometime I’ll elaborate those parts. Just listening to Dard E Dil right now – what a voice.
While Rafi was a more capable singer (scale, inflections, etc) and second to none (if not #1) when it came to conveying emotions and AMAZING personality Kishore Kumar was just as good on the latter and his voice was SUPERIOR. His voice had everything AT THE SAME TIME – that is truly amazing. Mellow yet powerful. Contradictory but possible with Kishore’s voice. Yeh Raate Yeh Mausam was a mellow song sung with yet a powerful tone. KK’s superior voice raised him him to the top for me.
June 15th, 2007 at 4:24 am
rafi was the best and will remain the best, kishoreda was good in his own way but not comparable with rafi who had a golden voice, sweet, natural, melodious, undescribeable voice, god given voice.
a voice that is still today being revered not only in india but also in places like senegal and many african countries whose natives dont speak or understand hindi but when they hear rafis voice they go in a trance for rafis magical voice.
June 15th, 2007 at 3:02 am
Shridip:
:Our modern filmy music is the gift of tradition Kishorda has set. I can say that singers like Amit Kumar, Kumar Sanu, Abhijeet are following the tradition of Kishorda”
-VERY TRUE..THat’s why 1985-1995 was the DARK AGE of Hindi fim music when trash like “Gutur gutur” or “Halwawala aa gaya” or “Main bhelpuri kha raha tha” or “Mera pant bhi sexy” were produced. Likewise Bengali music went down the drains, never to recover.
Only recently we see some revival with Gangster, Lagaan, Dil Chahta Hai. If you follow the recent trends, the focus is on high pitch Sufi style composition. Take Gangster or Kalyug, for example. The Rahat Fateh Ali (Tujhe dekhkar sona) or Zubeen (Ya Ali) numbers are essentially Rafi-style numbers. I cannot think of a single A.R. Rahman song that is sung in Kishore style (he clearly prefers soft voices).
June 15th, 2007 at 2:37 am
Rajesh Khanna’s last films were totally flopped, in all these flop movies, KK had sung for Rajesh Khanna, why KKs songs didn’t help the movies or the ex-superstar??
June 15th, 2007 at 2:34 am
Shridip, No one has nice and sweet voice than Rafiji, Kishore had harsh voice, it was just his luck he got Aradhana. Fully agreed that no one can touch Rafiji.
June 15th, 2007 at 2:27 am
Mr. Nair, the last time I saw Rafi on stage, Usha Timothy was with him. And the last song I heard him sing live was “Aaja aaja main hun pyar tera” with Usha. He would deliberately mix the “aaja aaja’s” with “jaaja jaaja’s” and make panting sounds; Rafi4 in full form. The crowd was going wild and he motioned to his orchestra to stop and said, “Arre wah, Kalkatta-walo ko kya ho gaya!” and then resumed his “aaja aaja’s”. None of the current-day singers can even compete with Rafi4.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Sanjay saab:
Yeh boom-boom kya hota hai mujhe malum nahin, lekin aap ne rock ‘n roll ki farmaish kiya, to main chhe gaane pesh kar raha hoon. The first was composed by Ravi, the second and third by Jai and the remaining three by your loRD. Song number 1 was such a hit that it was copyrighted by a Carribean calypso group. The second was used in an American film called Ghost World and has become very popular in the west (if you go through the comments, it’s mostly by Westerners). The fourth became the signature tune of the 60s and launched your loRD to instant fame. Does the voice sound “thin” to you? Is it “energetic” enough for you? Tell me honestly in which of these songs Kishore would have done a better job. Kyun Mt. Everest climb karne ka koshish kar rahe ho, gir jaoge. Kya MAST MAST, theek bola na?
1. Baar baar dekho: http://youtube.com/watch?v=75SRg70XrVY
2. Jan pehchan: http://youtube.com/watch?v=aHA_S48KRrI
3. Aaj kal: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rBEXkwlQ_Ew&mode=related&search=
4. Aaja aaja: http://youtube.com/watch?v=v3p4w7S6n9o&mode=related&search=
5. O haseena: http://youtube.com/watch?v=z3O9ZuBBysc&mode=related&search=
6. Ek bechara: http://youtube.com/watch?v=gcRFCZPZXZk
June 14th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Met Usha Timothi the other day who accompanied RAFI saab
for 38 - world tours apart from indian concerts.
In one concert in A.Pradesh, there was a large crowd creating
a stampede in yet another sold out show.. she said…
Rafi saab called the organisers and said : please open the gates
and allow the people in : and debit the cost on my account…
This was Mohd Rafi - the eternal singer - for the people - in all
corners of the world….P e o p l e just love him ….
binu nair
June 14th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Kishorda is the best.
If the classical music training and knowledge are important in film songs, most of the songs were sung by Pt. Jasraj, Bhimsen Joshi etc. Nobody remembers Md. Rafi today.
The songs which touches the heart of people are considered the best. Kishorda is far better than Rafi in this manner. His voice contained heroism itself, nomatter for whom he was plybacking.
If Kishorda has started his fulfledged career earlier even Rajendra kumar or Shammi kapoor etc. could touch the heights of Amitabh bacchan and Rajesh Khanna.
Our modern filmy music is the gift of tradition Kishorda has set. I can say that singers like Amit Kumar, Kumar Sanu, Abhijeet are following the tradition of Kishorda. Udit narayan, Sonu Nigam etc. have voice tone like Md. Rafi but they also are following the tradition of Kishorda only. Md. Rafi has not set any tradition. He was singing filmy songs in a classical tradition. He was neither the best classical singer nor best filmy singer.
Why Md. Rafi was so famous and considered as a legend? Because he was a “Ujjad gamma erando pradhan” in starting of the Indian film industry. This Gujarati proverb means - In the area where no trees or vegetation are there, people find even the ‘erando (Not so usefull tree)’ as the best. I truly believe that those music directors or singers who every time raise the flags of classical singing in filmy songs are super ficious. If we put them in classical music industry (having great personalities like Hariprasad Chorasiya, Shiv Kumar Sharma, Zakir Husain etc.) they will be prooven as rejected pieces of trash.
So stop commenting that Rafi has greater music knowledge and greater voice quality. His voice is like a dove. Ghu, ghu…..
June 14th, 2007 at 4:31 am
The eyewitness in my previous post was not me; I found this anecdote on another website. I found it hugely amusing because I’ve had similar experiences at Rafi-Kishore concerts in Calcutta. In fact, I told you earlier that organizers of concerts used to keep Rafi as the last performer, for fear of crowd trouble. From the comments of some of my Bengali brothers and sisters, it seems Calcutta has changed now. And, my fellow Rafians, let me tell you something that you are mistaken about — there is no one more popular than Rafi. If you consider that he was at his creative best till around 1971, it’s been 36 long years and yet generations upon generations of listeners adore him, Orkut and FM channels notwithstanding.
Whenever he came to Calcutta for concerts, police used to be deployed in large numbers. The junta really used to go wild at his very sight. Some used to wait for Rafi1 to sing, some for Rafi2, and quite a few for Rafi4. He was four singers rolled into one. In 1974, when he came to sing at Kala Mandir, there was lathi charge outside the auditorium. In the following day’s Anandabazar Patrika, one of the headlines was “Ey monihar amar nahi saje”, the first line of the famous song that Tagore wrote after winning the Nobel. Apparently, Rafi had sung this line to the reporter who was interviewing him. It was my fervent hope that one day he would cut a Rabindrasangeet disc but that was not to be.
Kishore was not only great, he was unique. I can only have respect for a singer who displaced the mighty Rafi, albeit for five years, a feat that no other singer was able to accomplish. But if you take the entire gamut of songs, it’s always going to be Rafi. I’m sure Talat and Mukesh were better in some dimensions, but overall, if you consider everything, there can be only RAFI! As Manna-da so aptly remarked, “No one can touch Rafi”.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:29 am
When He Sang Arrey Rafta Rafta Dekho
This is an eyewitness’s account, in the person’s own words.
Calcutta ke ek show mein Kishore Daa aur Rafi Sahab ek saath maujood the. Rafi sahab gaa kar utre aur Kishore ji stage par aaye….logon ne hangama kar diya, wo sirf Rafi Sahab ko sunna chah rahe the….log badtameezi par utar aaye na jane kya kya phenkne lage aur uchhalne lage….
Rafi saab, fauran green room se nikal kar aaye aur bole theek hai main gaata hoon….aur gaana shuru kiya ‘arey rafta rafta dekho aankh meri ladi hai….’
Do liney gaa kar logon se request kiya ke doosron ko bhi sune wo bhi itni door se aapka dil behlane ke liye aaye hain.
Aur jo do lines gaaeen wo aap sabhi jaante hain ke kishore ji ke gaaye huye gaane ki hain.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:50 am
If “POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING” is the only yardstick, then:
1. Kishore Kumar is the best singer for all regional music as well. I do not know how many South Indian songs Kishore has sung, but I doubt if any South Indian singer was as ““POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING””!!
2. Kishore is by far the best Bengali singer ahead of Dhananjay, Satinath, Manna, Hemanta, Manabendra. None of them was as ““POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING”. How many KK fans agree to that?
3. Yes KK was God-gifted. That’s why anyone with the same vocal quality would sing exactly the way KK sang. Case in point: Amit Kumar. I personally DO NOT FIND ANY DIFFERENCE between Amit and his dad, except that his dad was more focused and hence was a legend.
If someone had exactly the same vocal quality of Rafi, he would not be Rafi. Because Rafi was not all about vocal quality. As Lata said “his taan and harkatein were inimitable”…Rafi’s strength lay in his “taan and harkatein”-the ability to play with words, feelings, maatras.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Dear Manish:
Some writers here are in the constant habit of putting the
cart before the proverbial horse : they are bent upon comparing
Mohd Rafi with Kishore : with half baked statements and a few
facts…… Kishore has some very good songs and we love him
for that..
However these half knowledge wordsmiths can never in their
entire lives be able to mar the legend Mohd Rafi’s 36 years of
contribution to the Indian Music Industry….
binu nair
June 13th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
We talking about KK singing a limited number of songs better than Rafi does bring up the point that we NEED ALL SINGERS and can’t live with just one. While I rate Rafi as greatest, I need KK too - he makes my life and my musical collection better. Right singer for the right song. My most recent favorite KK song is “Agar Tum Na Hote” I can only enjoy it so much thanks to Kishore! India is superior to USA in two things at least: food and music. What a great tradition of vocalists India has!
June 13th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Sanjay,
I think you’re absolutely right to say that some songs Kishore could sing better than Rafi. However, this has been addressed before, P Haldar mentioned in his first post that there is the “Kishore Dimension” of songs where yeah, Kishore sings better than anyone - including Rafi. All the songs you mentioned fit exactly that category. Do bear in mind though, that many of those songs come from RDB and Bappi - these two composers composed the song with KK specifically in mind - so the songs are INHERENTLY in favor of Kishore. Nevertheless, this is a very limited category and there are a great number of songs where I think Rafi can sing better. At the same time, I am always doubt ful to discount a great singer like Rafi. While I agree with you that no one could have sung Khaike Pan better than KK, I’d still give a great singer like Rafi a slim chance of pulling off an upset (one can never discount his magic). Never count out a great singer. Case in point: Zindagi Ek Safar Hai Suhana. I never knew there was a Rafi version for a long time. Always thought that KK’s version could never be beat. Then I hear Rafi version and I’m swept away but its superiority.
As for Rafi having a “weak” tone: that’s totally unfair. In many Rafi-KK duets the two had equal tone. In Zindagi Ek Safar (btw, I’ve said this many times, I liked Rafi’s version MUCH BETTER) Rafi shows better tonal quality in fact. I think some more knowledgeabl posters will give you a nice list where Rafi’s tone is great but here’s a Rafi-Lata gem that I like where he sings in a strong voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b52lLgeG8Ww
Coincidentally, the song IS in high pitch but that is NOT to compensate for softness, the voice itself is strong in Rafi here. You should never try to generalize his voice - it was very versatile and he could modulate like no other.
June 13th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Sanjay ji….
It is the melody than counts…. you cant become besurra…..
if you are a great singer…. Confidence is one imp. thing in
any job… Rafi saabh took up the challenge and sang all type
of songs - immortalising them… He never would say : give
this song to xyz.. since I cannot sing it….. u know why I am
saying this…here..
Two facts here: The producers and distributors would always
dictate terms to the composers. They would say : We want
Rafi saab as the male play-back. , they knew the saleability
and the long term shelf life of RAFI songs… this went on for
almost three decades in the hindi film industry….
Secondly, the song Mana re tu kahe na dheer dhare .. is voted
by eminent new and yore music personalities as the best Hindi
song of the last 50 years in an OUTLOOK SURVEY last year….
More , the songs : Mana tadapat…, to Ganga ki mauj…
Bhagwaan… Oh duniya ke rakhwale…. and many other are
pure gems : and if any singer on this earth can sing these :
in RAFI-isque style, with emotions, feelings, diction, and everything
else included then I will bet and lose my - last penny….
More, Mohd Rafi-Lata has been voted the best singers of last
century by the Times of India Publications - survey….
So your lords voice tenor does not merit any discussion …and does
not hold water…
binu