An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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May 12th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Wow…you went to a live concert by Rafi, Lata, and Kishore!?! I wonder how many concerts these three giants did together…that is amazing! You’re very lucky.
May 12th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
I don’t know why this Bengali issue has come into the debate. I am a Bengali and there are hundreds of diehard Rafi fans that I personally know of in Kolkata. In Kolkata where I grew up, old-timers used to say, “Rafi is Rafi” to preempt any comparison with other singers. For Bengali songs, Kishore, Manna, Hemant, Lata and Asha (the first three are Bengalis) are definitely much more popular; Rafi sang very few Bengali songs. At one time, Talat (known as Tapan Kumar in Bengal) used to be also popular. But we are talking about Hindi songs and I wish some of you were there at the Netaji Indoor Stadium concert featuring RD, Asha, Kishore and Rafi in 1980. Rafi sang last because if he sang first, Kolkatans would have said, “function noshto hoye galo” (the function got spoiled). The response he evoked was simply unbelievable. Adjacent to the Netaji Indoor Stadium is the famous Eden Gardens, where Kolkatans once protested, “No Mushtaq No test”, and forced the selectors to bring back their favourite Mushtaq Ali. Kolkatans respect musicians and sportsmen for their talent, not for their ethnic or religious background.
May 12th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
Love u Kishoreda more than life.
May 12th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Anil Biswas was totally anti Rafi.He liked Kishoreda’s singing very much.Kishoreda is GOD.Whoever says Rafi is better than Kishoreda,is mad and donkey.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Btw…Udit Narayan actually took singing lessons from Kishore Kumar in the late 80s. Whether this formal “informal lesson” was just done so that Udit could say he took a lesson from Kishore Kumar or if the purpose was to emphasize a specific way of Kishore’s singing, it is interesting.
It is well agreed that Udit is original and not really a member of Rafi school or Kishore school but…IMO he’s closer to Rafi. Rafi was UNIQUE in terms of his amazing quality and completeness but Kishore was more blatantly unique in the sense he was TOTALLY different from anyone else (whereas Rafi and another singer had some things in common but Rafi was just so much better and could do so much more, Kishore had some elements not seen in other singers at all! (Rafi had his own special unique magic and traits too but this is complicated)).
Does Udit yodel like Kishore or sing crazy songs like Kishore regularly? No. Unique to Kishore.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Thanks for the compliment. I actually regret posting now seeing what respect the two had for one another. In my defense - I did try to illustrate how LIMITED the comparison was - only within me.
Many Kishore fans will say they don’t care for the song “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale” - that’s perfectly understandable and takes away the need for Kishore to be able to sing it! We cannot impose our likings on others! Sure they’d miss out on appreciation of vocal range but there are many great things in music instead!
Irony8 - Kishore was absolutely right to demand payment first - if he did not he would have been EXPLOITED big time (and he was often when he let his guard down!).
I wouldn’t get too much into the Bengali talk or Muslim. It’s silly to say that Kishore was only popular because he was Bengali! You are right to say that there was some prejudice against Rafi Sahab for being Muslim but isn’t prejudice everywhere? This is not a good topic to get into IMO. Prejudice can work both ways but forget it. One thing is for sure: India sure as hell loved and respected Rafi Sahab - did he get shortchanged sometimes? Maybe. But so did Kishore and Manna Dey and everyone for one reason or another (ethnicity, failure to appreciate talent etc.).
As much fun I had comparing the two, my comparison is really inappropriate and POINTLESS to someone else. Let’s just be grateful that we had BOTH and if you like one then listen to him etc. !
It is tough for me to resist the temptation of comparing but I’d be embarassed to face Rafi sahab if I made demeaning comments about Kishore I just do it in response to other fans who make comments that I find unreasonable.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:58 am
WHOEVER SAYS KISHORE IS BETTER THAN RAFI, HE OR SHE MUST BE A METALLY SICKO. SOME IDIOTS SAY THAT RAFI WAS TRAINED SO KISHORE WAS MORE TALENTED. TO HELL WITH THOSE OPINIONS. THEN AFRIDI IS MUCH MORE TALENTED THAN SACHIN AS SACHIN WAS TRAINED. I KNOW THE SAME VERY KISHORE FANS ARE FANS OF TENDULKAR BUT THEN THEY FORGET THAT SACHIN IS TRAINED.
RAFI COULD SING THEM ALL. THE HARDEST OF HARDEST SONGS WERE SUNG BY RAFI. THEY WERE JUST MADE THINKING OF RAFI, NOT FOR LATA OR MANNA OR ASHA OR MUKESH, LET ALONE KK. “O DUNIYA KE RAKHWALE” IS THE HARDEST SONG IN THE ENTIRE WORLD SUNG BY RAFI. “DEKHI ZAMANE KI YAARI” THE MOST SENTIMENTAL SONG SUNG BY RAFI. KK HAD MUCH EASIER SONGS.
WHEN YOU TALK WITH KISHORE FANS ABOUT SINGING, THEY ALWAYS BRING KK’S OTHER QUALITIES LIKE ACTING, DIRECTING, AND WHATEVER! COME ON GYUS. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SINGING. WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN OTHERS! THEN RAFI FANS ALSO CAN BRING RAFI’S GREATEST QUALITY THAT KK DOESN’T HAVE. HIS HUMANITY AND GREAT BEHAVIOUR. HE EVEN SANG WITHOUT MONEY WHERE KISHORE (THE SPOILED CHILED OF A WEALTHY DAD) ALWAYS DEMENDED MONEY BEFORE SINGING. BANGALIS MOSTLY LIKE KISHORE AS HE WAS BANGALI, THAT’S IT.
IF RAFI WAS BANGALI, THEY WOULD DEFINITELY SAY RAFI WAS MUCH BETTER.
May 11th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
Dear messi,
Lata ji is the best female singer she can’t challenge Mohd Rafi,Mannay Dey a great singer he said no way to challenge Mohd rafi,Talat ji knig of sad songs he can’t challenge mohd Rafi but I agree with that KK can challenge Mohd Rafi as actor but not singer,If u want say the way u want in this case any one can challenge any one as Pakistani or indian football team can challenge brazil football team,…….
Plz dear Messi walk up from dreams don’t compare,Why u all kk fans like RD?why most of kk fans who know about music they never compare KK with Mohd Rafi they try to compare Mohd rafi with Lata ji?
plz be honest with u r country where a singer like Mohd Rafi born.don’t compare great singers if u want to compare ask who know about music,who have the best song ever singed in bollywood?
KK was good singer as other but Mohd rafi is and will be after hundreds years alive………………………
May 11th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Bapan,
please stop now. Don’t just repeat the samething I have trying to stop.
I agree with Haldar and Paresh Pai. Kishore was the one who could give a challenge
to Rafi, that’s the reason some people don’t like him. I respect both of them and will
always. So no stop using the bad words, mohdrafi.come website is full of all the words
and posts.
No more now, just enjoy.
Thank you
May 11th, 2007 at 10:48 am
when the people who know about music they speak about KK they say he was good singer but when they speak about mohd Rafi they said there never be other Mohd Rafi as a singer and human,Mohd rafi singed for KK for free but mr bachchan don’t i hope u know that kk fans,why u people useing kk name with RD as i think LP with kk was more better,when RD got his first film he went to Mohd Rafi to sing for him and said by RD that Mohd Rafi helped him makeing his first songs and he canelled with other MD and he singed for me after he singed I was thining that Is i made this song or it is the magic of Mohd Rafi voice.when Lata ji speak about Mohd Rafi she said he can sing an topic of song so easy but when she speak about KK she say about kk jokes,
If we go for good music will see the good music star in 1950’s and end in 1980’s,the best music was in 1960’s,WHY?!!!!!as i think because of Mohd rafi…….why we compare?!!!!!!!!!!!???kk fans don’t have much to say but mohd rafi fans have much.
May 10th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Kumar Sanu,Abhijeet,Babul Supriyo,Vinod Rathode,Shaan,KK,Kunal all belong to the Kishore Kumar school of singing.Kishoreda is simply the best.He is God.
May 10th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Hi Humble,
First, When did Udit say that ? provide me the exact quote. Otherwise it’s tough to believe
the media now a days.
Second, He might have said that because Rafi is his favorite singer or he liked Rafi’s
voice and style. But Udit’s voice and style don’t match with Rafi’s a bit. If you say Sonu
is from Rafi’s school I can believe that even when Sonu deny it officially. But it’s tough
to believe Udit case even he accepts that officially. Understand ?
May 10th, 2007 at 10:24 am
I’d like to commend Manish Kumar for a very insightful analysis; I share most of his views.
In the history of playback singing, there was no phenomenon like Rafi and there will never be one. The only singer to challenge Rafi was Kishore and we need to recognize that. Lata, Asha, Manna or Mukesh could never overshadow Rafi; Rafi simply towered above all of them. That it is why it is important to understand the reasons why Kishore could dethrone Rafi. Of course, there was always that issue of patronage from the Burmans, especially the younger one. Suffice it to say that without RD’s music, it would have been impossible for Kishore to displace Rafi. What RD created in the 1970-75 period was sheer magic and Kishore responded magnificently. They were made for one another. Though Rafi’s voice could easily cover the gamut of song types, there was (just) one dimension in which Kishore’s voice was superior. The genius in SD recognized that much earlier than anyone else; that is why he could exploit the two voices so well. But the son never realized that, although Rafi launched him into big league with Teesri Manzil. He let Kishore sing almost every song of his, including classical, folk, ghazal, etc. It is a stroke of irony that when Rafi got half a chance in HKKN, he came back with a bang. The difference between SD and RD ultimately is how they used Rafi. SD and Rafi defined what playback singing is all about in Pyasa (Yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaye to kya hai) and it was they who could scale those lofty heights again in Kagaz ke Phool (Dekhi zamane ki yari). Listen to Rafi’s Din dhal jaye from Guide and it’d be difficult to discern that someone else is singing for Dev.
Kishore was a spontaneous talent. Yes, Rafi could sing every song that Kishore sang but, in my humble opinion, Kishore would be slightly ahead in songs like Yeh dil na hota bechara, Zindagi ek safar hai suhana, Yeh kya hua, Yeh jo mohabbat hai, etc. That is the dimension I alluded to earlier. Rafi fans — and I am one — need to concede that and stop this needless debate that has been going on for the last 37 years.
Rafi and Kishore fans should remember the mutual admiration and respect that these two playback giants shared. In 1983, three years after Rafi had died, Kishore came to sing at a concert in Kolkata. His first song was a Rabindra sangeet; his second was Rafi’s Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare from Chitralekha! Kishore was a self-avowed fan of Rafi’s (he once said, “I am his greatest fan”) and I am sure that Rafi, who hardly ever spoke, had the highest regard for the phenomenon that was Kishore.
May 10th, 2007 at 6:18 am
If you like someone’s intrinsic voice - whatever he sings - you will naturally like it. This liking is personal and thus varies from person to person e.g. a Kishore fan will like Kishore’s voice and a Rafi fan will like Rafi’s voice. Voice is probably the most important factor which means that preference for a singer is subjective, personal, and ill suited to compare with another’s tastes. What you can do…is compare within yourself but that is about how far you can go.
I really don’t like it when someone tries with good intentions to balance the debate by saying, “Kishore had the natural voice while Rafi was better trained.” I think Rafi had both! Yes, I liked Kishore’s version of Tum Bin Jaon Kahan better simply because of the yodelling. However, if you compare voice alone - I felt Rafi’s was more crisp and clearer and fuller.
At the same time - I *try to refrain from generalzing Kishore’s voice. I think in the 50s and 60s his voice was more crisp and clear (listen to Mana Janab Ne Pukara Nahi 1957 or Mere Samne Waali Kirdhki 1968) than his voice in the 70s. My guess is that he was so popular in the 70s and so busy as a result that sometimes he just throated the song or quickly rendered it to keep up with assigments whereas in the 50s he had fewer songs and so he was able to dedicate himself more to each one.
Another reason for Kishore not always delivering his best is because he emphasized playback singing as a business among exploitive people in the movie industry (how right he was!). In one incident, he was singing and Bappi Lahri told him to add some emotion to the song. Kishore said, “Give me 300 more rupees and I’ll put emotion into the song.” Do you think Kishore put his best effort into that song? I don’t blame him from a personal viewpoint (he should make the most he can) but as a singer he compromised his art (his song was still good thanks to his intrinsic voice but clearly he didn’t put in his best). I’m not saying that Kishore didn’t work hard or that he just throated every song - but I think you understand my thoughts. I cannot excuse Kishore as an artist for this!
In sharp contrast, Rafi was always very dedicated to his singing and even on the day of his death as he recorded his last song - he didn’t fail to impress! This description is well documented. Additionally (again only my opinion) I can’t think of a single Rafi song where he doesn’t seem to sing from the heart and where the song isn’t gushing with emotion and
My opinion is that Rafi had by far the best voice among the male singers - it wasn’t too deep or too low or too…it was just perfect. This is why Rafi’s voice could suit just about any actor and his record as a primary choice for over a dozen actors from the romantic Dharmendra to the quirky Mehmood to Johnny Walker to the rebel Shammi Kapoor - Rafi’s voice was a voice for all occasions. He also had that magic in the voice that is a rare gift (Kishore had it too).
For my money - Rafi’s super voice quality was always consistent - from the 40s all the way until he breathed his last! Kishore’s voice was smooth and crisp in the 50s and 60s, somewhat coarse but deep and strong (great tone) in the 70s and 80s. Neverthleless, for me, Rafi’s voice was much better. It was sweeter, it was much more crisp and clear than any version of Kishore’s voice. That’s just me. Mohammed Rafi had the best voice.
It is a fact that Rafi yodelled before Kishore! Kishore fans who unknowingly say that Kishore was the best yodeller have not heard Rafi yodel but indeed - Rafi’s vocals had no limits. He yodelled in a song from 40s or early 50s and IMO it was just as good as Kishore’s! Rafi rarely yodelled because he was trained singer and among trained singer this artistic trait (I think it is art) is looked down upon. This fact that I dare to say few KK fans knew of or believe - shows what great vocals Rafi had that he could be on the same ground of yodelling as the great Kishore Kumar!
It is fact that Rafi had the wider vocal range and combining this with his superior training in classical music meant that Rafi could sing just about any song. While Kishore was very versatile - there are some songs that are SIMPLY out of his vocal range IMO. A song like “Ae Mohabat Zindabad” from Naushad’s Mughal E Azam requires a very, very high vocal range that no one but Rafi himself could match! When Shankar Jaikishan started out - they went to Rafi and asked him to sing as he pleased because he was the only one who could sing their composition (humble Rafi told them to tell him how they wanted it).
It is fact that till 1969 Rafi sang 10X more songs than Kishore (and they were quality) and that MDs used Rafi more than Kishore from 1977-1980. That tells you something! Of the ~40 years together, Kishore had the better of Rafi for only 6 years. The “decline” of Rafi was inevitable because when you dominate for 20 years, the people need a brief change of something different and Kishore provided with that. I listen primarily to Rafi but every now and then I take a break for a fresh new style of voice and that voice is typically Kishore or Udit.
Also know that if Kishore really had the natural voice (over Rafi’s) then…when Kishore started out as a singer he really struggled and people told him that he was no good or that his voice just didn’t have it. Mohammed Rafi’s voice was NEVER criticized like that at ANY point in his career - it testifies that Rafi Sahab’s intrinsic voice was tough to question. Kishore did receive an aura.
Someone said that Rafi could not sing a song like “Arre Deewano Mujhe Pehchano” from Don. Are you kidding? A skilled singer of his voice control could sing that song in his sleep. Additionally, some could say that Kishore had a brilliant personality and that he could do funny songs that maybe Rafi could not. Again, I disagree because Rafi was a great singer who dedicated himself and had MAGIC and emotion and NUANCE in his voice. Rafi did a great job of capturing Kishore’s brilliant personality and nuances in the songs for which he did playback for Kishore. Rafi had personality too and could do just about any song - funny, yodel etc.
Rafi had the best voice, he had the magic, and he had the training and range. I can’t think of another singer that has ALL of these four traits. These comparisons are only within me…you guys could think it is rubbish!
Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara - I thought Rafi’s voice had much more emotion here whereas Kishore maintained a stronger tone
Zindagi Ek Safar - Rafi maintained a stronger tone and his voice was fuller and smoother.
Hum Premi Prem Karna Chahe - Both maintained equal tone but for me, Rafi had more emotion in his voice.
Tum Bin Jaaon Kahan - Rafi had a more crisp, clear voice. Kishore wins because artistically his yodelling had the edge but Rafi could have yodelled too if he wanted!
After having written all this, I still say that my opinion against SOMEONE ElSE can potentially be an apple versus an orange. These opinions are against MY values and likes which aren’t universal hahaha. I’m also glad that we have BOTH to listen to!
May 10th, 2007 at 12:19 am
So true Narayan & Paresh Pai, I liked it what you guys said.
Sorry if I did anything wrong. Thanks for everything.
May 9th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Without any formal training,he reached unusual heights in playback singing.That’s what a genius is.
May 9th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Kishore Kumar is the most versatile of all singers.He is much ahead than Rafi.
May 9th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
@ Messi
When Udit says that he is from Rafi’s school, then why do you force him to pull out….strange!
May 9th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Both Rafi saab and Kishoreda were great. They had mutal admiration for
each other.
As for settling for the best lets just say Mukeshji, as he was
totally inimitable. That way Rafi or Kishore fans will not feel bad.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
ALL MUSIC LOVERS,
yes let us not compare these 2 great legends and enjoy the lovely evergreen hits given by them.
Both had the best of relationship so why the fans should grudge anything against the legends.
Rafi Sahabs photo along with Saigal sahabs potrait is displayed in the portico of Kishore da s house. Also Rafi Sahab in Kishore da’s last film charged a friendly 1 rupee.
In the 70s when Rafi sahab was less used an ignorant person asked Kishore da ” Aapne Rafi ki chutti kar di”. The fool got a resounding slap from the legend promptly.
I strongly feel all should enjoy the greatness of the legends without comparing and simply enjoy MUSIC which the TWO together dominated in the playback singing field.
Narayanan
May 9th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
wot nonsense. Rafi was much better than K.K. Udit nor Sonu can come to Rafi’s gharana of singing. Not even close.
May 9th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
No doubt that Kishoreda is the greatest.
May 9th, 2007 at 10:47 am
IMHO, both Rafisahab and Kishoreda were two sides of the same coin. Both were equally important for the coin to exist, so why compare them ?
May 9th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Good article, but the one again will encourage many to start the so called debate.
I don’t understand why each and every time they ignite people to start the comparison.
Rafi is I think one of the greatest singers on the face of the Earth and so is Kishore Kumar
Rafi mainly because of his sheer skills and Kishore Kumar mainly because of his Purity of
voice. I don’t mean to say Rafi’s voice is not pure, neither do I say Kishore doesn’t have
skills. But yes, one will overshadow the other on those points.
I love both of them. One thing I don’t understand. What’s Rafi school. Ok, I think Rafi’s
distinct syle and calibre made it a school. Sonu Nigam can be categorized under Rafi’s
School. How come Udit ? There’s no similarity between his voice and style with Rafi’s.
However Sonu has some similarity. But as a singer, Udit is far better than Sonu,
is that the reason some people say he is also from Udit just to prove Rafi’s greatness ?
I don’t understand this fact. Anybody can explain ? don’t start a debate. Just give me
reasons that why Udit falls under Rafi school. Don’t just say that he himself has said
that that’s why. That’s not a reason to believe.
Thanks for the wonderful article. BTW, what about the author ? a Rafian or a Kishoreian ?
May 8th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Dear Sir offourse there is no end but there is something clear like sun who is best singer ever born in bollywood,I can say what I want but important thing is the true is true,Rajesh Khanna said once that the song which singed by Anwar for him if there was MohdRafi he can’t sing it the way singed by Anwar!!!do u think so?we should not compare mohd Rafi with any singer said by many great people who know about music.if u have singer like Mohd Rafi u don’t need anyother singer to sing any tape of song to be sing by other singer boz mohd rafi can sing any tape of song so easy way but other singers they can’t,exp Shammi Kapoor used around 95% Mohd Rafi but if we go to Rajesh Khanna or mr Bachchan it not like that,if I like Sanu it not mean that he is the best singer,why we say that KK was not trained!!!!after singing thousands of songs and working with all MD he is not trained!!!!!!!???if he is not trained it mean that he is not a singer as i think but kk was great singer,why compare him as singer with mohd rafi?
There is end of topic who is better as we know in our heart……